Trouble with Miami

[Trout7]

Could someone smarter than me explain why we have so much difficulty with Miami?  Does Miami bring up their level of play against the Hawks more than other teams. I do realize they just beat Cleveland easily.

[benhillboy]

I'm no smarter than anyone else but I've always been a fan of Spoestra's style of allowing his teams to play free-flowing offense as long as they defend hard (surely influenced by Riley).  I count 8 guys on their roster who can create their own shot.  

Even after LeBron, they still have 4 guys who have a 50% or better chance at the HOF per BBRef.  Amare is a role player, Joe on the downside (slightly), but that's still a wealth of pedigree.  Of course Bosh's health will heavily determine their fate but he's near his peak and waltzing into the Hall.  

I personally think Wade has been considerably underrated for his career.  He's as comparable to Jordan as Kobe is.

Still the Hawks are 5-3 versus the Heat over the last two years, I don't see much "trouble".  They don't have the wherewithal and 5-man IQ to stay with the Hawks late in games

Anyone can beat the Cavs these days, they're falling apart due to horrendous team habits and poor leadership.  A rested, well-coached team should blow them out at home.

[Plainview1981]

19 minutes ago, Trout7 said:

Could someone smarter than me explain why we have so much difficulty with Miami?  Does Miami bring up their level of play against the Hawks more than other teams. I do realize they just beat Cleveland easily.

I think Cleveland and Toronto are the teams the Hawks will struggle with. The Hawks routinely beat Miami last year, and they have beaten them this year also. However, The Hawks lost 3 of the 4 meetings with Toronto last year, and I believe Toronto has beaten the Hawks twice this year.

[lethalweapon3]

Miami's 46.8 FG% is the highest among East opponents that have played at least 2 games against Atlanta (the Hawks' opponent for the next couple games, the Wizards, and the Cavs shot over 48 percent in each of their sole matchups with Atlanta). That's despite shooting just under 30% on threes, something that isn't either Dwyane Wade's or Goran Dragic's forte.

47.1% of Miami's points vs. Atlanta have come in the paint. Miami's won three of four against the Hawks, including the game where hardly any major heat players participated. The three teams with higher proportions of points on shots from the paint (Kings, Raptors, Bucks) are 5-1.

Offensively, Miami thrives on drives, and the Hawks (and most of the league) struggle to defend two high-caliber guards capable of dribble-penetrating. Among the top 20 NBA guards on drives into the paint, the heat have both Dragic (54.0 FG%) and Wade (50.0 FG%) making shots when they call their own number. And on those drives, their assist percentages rank 1st (Dragic's 14.7%) and 4th (Wade's 12.1%) among that group, with a lob option to Whiteside, dump-ins to Stoudemire, and a vastly improving core of shooters(Josh Richardson and Joe Johnson now add to that) at their disposal.

By comparison, Jeff's 11.0 drives per game rank 4th in the league among active NBA guards this season. But his finishing on the plays (44.8 FG%) ranks lowest among the top 15 driving guards (His old Demon Deacon teammate, Ish Smith, has shot 43.2% with the Pelicans and Sixers), 18th among the top 20. On the season, his 8.4 assist% on drive plays is middle-of-the-pack. The good news is that Teague's stats in those two areas have improved this month (52.0 FG%, 11.4 assist%) to be at least on-par with Miami's driving duo.

The better the Hawks' backcourt does with limiting Wade and Dragic to mid-range shots and ill-advised ballhandling plays, the better their chances will be if they go head-to-head again in the near future.

~lw3

[Guest]

1 hour ago, benhillboy said:

I'm no smarter than anyone else but I've always been a fan of Spoestra's style of allowing his teams to play free-flowing offense as long as they defend hard (surely influenced by Riley).  I count 8 guys on their roster who can create their own shot.  

Even after LeBron, they still have 4 guys who have a 50% or better chance at the HOF per BBRef.  Amare is a role player, Joe on the downside (slightly), but that's still a wealth of pedigree.  Of course Bosh's health will heavily determine their fate but he's near his peak and waltzing into the Hall.  

I personally think Wade has been considerably underrated for his career.  He's as comparable to Jordan as Kobe is.

Still the Hawks are 5-3 versus the Heat over the last two years, I don't see much "trouble".  They don't have the wherewithal and 5-man IQ to stay with the Hawks late in games

Anyone can beat the Cavs these days, they're falling apart due to horrendous team habits and poor leadership.  A rested, well-coached team should blow them out at home.

Hmmmm not sure about Wade being comparable to Kobe or Jordan. Personally I think he got lucky winning his 3 rings. One was courtesy of Shaq and the other two were Lebron. He's still a hall of famer but no where near Kobe or Jordan. Speaking of that, I don't believe Kobe is even as close to Jordan as many believe.

 

Also, funny you mentioned IQ. Before even reading this thread, I mentioned the Rockets announcers having a low IQ on the Hawks Rox game thread. Lol

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, benhillboy said:

Anyone can beat the Cavs these days, they're falling apart due to horrendous team habits and poor leadership.  A rested, well-coached team should blow them out at home.

You’re in for a very nasty surprise on April 1st if what I’m afraid of is true… I’m afraid this team is just absolutely terrified of Cleveland after the playoffs. ATL likely goes into the game on an extended 14-4 run with the way they're playing, but I sadly bet they won't look like that in this game.

[benhillboy]

1 hour ago, Spud2Nique said:

Hmmmm not sure about Wade being comparable to Kobe or Jordan. Personally I think he got lucky winning his 3 rings. One was courtesy of Shaq and the other two were Lebron. He's still a hall of famer but no where near Kobe or Jordan. Speaking of that, I don't believe Kobe is even as close to Jordan as many believe.

 

Also, funny you mentioned IQ. Before even reading this thread, I mentioned the Rockets announcers having a low IQ on the Hawks Rox game thread. Lol

I hear you, varying degrees of Jordan of course.  Oladipo, Dr.J, Kobe, Wiggins, Westbrook, Miner, and DeRozan all had/have a little dash.  Even Jordan Crawford!(don't kill me)

On the surface, I'm looking at 5+ years over 25 points and .500 shooting.  Wade is the only other high usage 2 guard I can think of to go well over .500 multiple times with Jordan.  5 boards and assists, free throw and three point shooting average to poor, legendary finishing.  You couldn't tell the difference between his 08-09 season and a championship-winning Jordan one.

Of course the biggest difference being advanced defensive stats.  Mike's impact was that of a dominant center.  

I can fully understand shortchanging Wade's career somewhat due to the reasons you stated, but I've admired him more over the years for sticking to his game amidst serious injury problems.  I also underrate Shaq and overrate Scottie based on popular opinion but that's a whole 'nother realm.  

The Ref has his closest comparison being Walt Frazier.  Never saw the dude, so we can agree on Clyde much more so.

Michael Jordan's Playground came on yesterday, reminding me how much of a monster he was, regardless of how cheesy and awkward some of the scenes were.  His passing was always underrated and a nice segment of his shot-for-shot battles with Nique brought back great memories.  I wish I could just live in the 90's forever.

[Guest]

I'm definitely an 80's and 90's guy as well. I totally understand that Wade was and is still a great player and has played through a lot of injuries and has willed his team to many victories. I guess what always upset me about Wade is his inability to shoot off the dribble. Overall, his outside shot has drastically improved from when he was in his first few years, but I guess I thought it would get a lot better than it has up to this point. I feel as though he needs to be COMPLETELY set in order to deliver an accurate outside shot and that annoys me given the fact that he is a SHOOTING GUARD. Otherwise, I agree he's a big time competitor and gamer in this league and will definitely be a hall of famer.

[Alex]

The Hawks are 6-5 against the 4,5, and 6 seeds right now.  Miami, Boston, and Charlotte with one game left against Boston I believe.  Chances are the Hawks will host or end up playing one of these teams in round one.  No matter who they face it's going to be a struggle.  Similar to the Brooklyn series last year.  

[jy23]

Dragic can't guard Jeff or Dennis one on one....I consider that the biggest disadvantage in that matchup of we do have to play them in the playoffs. They may decide to put wade on the point bc of that fact but if that happens then that wears him out for the other end. Not afraid of that team. Toronto is the only team that bothers me 

[Lurker]

Miami will stay in 4/5 or move up to 3 unless someone gets injured for them. I'm pretty sure that the 3 is going to be Atlanta or Miami and the 6 is Boston, Charlotte, or Indiana and none of those teams really strike fear into me.

Then again, this season has been crazy with it's changes in the east playoffs and it could get really shaken up again before we wrap up this season, but my guess if Atlanta doesn't cool off is they're facing Boston or Charlotte in the first round and then if they win it the winner of Toronto/Indiana or Chicago.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Miami will stay in 4/5 or move up to 3 unless someone gets injured for them. I'm pretty sure that the 3 is going to be Atlanta or Miami and the 6 is Boston, Charlotte, or Indiana and none of those teams really strike fear into me.

Then again, this season has been crazy with it's changes in the east playoffs and it could get really shaken up again before we wrap up this season, but my guess if Atlanta doesn't cool off is they're facing Boston or Charlotte in the first round and then if they win it the winner of Toronto/Indiana or Chicago.

So basically you have Atlanta, Boston, Miami, and Chatlotte in any slot between 3 and 6 huh? That's a bold prediction. 

 

 

I kid I kid..:-)

[bumpyphish1]

We're better than the Heat but they have an easier schedule and could hold us off for the 3 seed.

[MaceCase]

20 hours ago, benhillboy said:

.  

I personally think Wade has been considerably underrated for his career.  He's as comparable to Jordan as Kobe is.

I agree.  He's probably the 3rd best SG in NBA history. 

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

I agree.  He's probably the 3rd best SG in NBA history. 

Jerry West, Clyde Drexler, Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Joe Dumars and Sam Jones>>> Dwayne Wade

 

IMHO

[Guest]

I might even put Mitch Richmond ahead of Wade. Rock was a bad man.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, bumpyphish1 said:

We're better than the Heat but they have an easier schedule and could hold us off for the 3 seed.

Toronto is now 1 game behind Cleveland for 1st.  That's why we just need to play our best ball going forward.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Spud2Nique said:

I might even put Mitch Richmond ahead of Wade. Rock was a bad man.

Listen, Spud2 .... I hate DWhine too and it's hard for me to admit it but .... sigh ... he's probably the 3rd best 2 in NBA history.  To put guys like Dumars, Drexler and something called Sam Jones ahead of him is just plain spiteful.  Now I loves me some spite every now and again but, we gotta be honest, Wade is better than those guys.

Now I gotta go wash my keyboard out with soap for praising that dirty a** scoundrel.  Gah, this has been an awful Monday.  

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Listen, Spud2 .... I hate DWhine too and it's hard for me to admit it but .... sigh ... he's probably the 3rd best 2 in NBA history.  To put guys like Dumars, Drexler and something called Sam Jones ahead of him is just plain spiteful.  Now I loves me some spite every now and again but, we gotta be honest, Wade is better than those guys.

Now I gotta go wash my keyboard out with soap for praising that dirty a** scoundrel.  Gah, this has been an awful Monday.  

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Listen, Spud2 .... I hate DWhine too and it's hard for me to admit it but .... sigh ... he's probably the 3rd best 2 in NBA history.  To put guys like Dumars, Drexler and something called Sam Jones ahead of him is just plain spiteful.  Now I loves me some spite every now and again but, we gotta be honest, Wade is better than those guys.

Now I gotta go wash my keyboard out with soap for praising that dirty a** scoundrel.  Gah, this has been an awful Monday.  

I'm sorry but I'd definitely love to have Drexler or Dumars over Wade on my team. Did you watch basketball prior to 5 years ago? It's ok if you caught on late but please don't forget the greats of the game. Dumars was the Jordan stopper in his prime and Drexler lead a contending blazer team to the finals in 92 only to lose to Jordan. 

 

@kg01 I can see you being one of those new school kids who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan. Lol. Do you think Anthony Davis is better than Bill Russell. As the kids say..swag on sun. 

 

A SHOOTING GUARD NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO SHOOT!!! DWade can't shoot!!!!!