Best Strategy for Draft night?

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Dejay said:

I have you outgunned, KG because I have Basketball Reference open in my browser. Give me Tom Henderson and Mike Sojourner in the first round. Why are they significant? Because we passed up effin' GEORGE GERVIN to draft them...

Ah, that's some bull.  No cheating.  I got you Priest Lauderdale and Ed Gray of memory, sun!  Why are they significant?  'Cause dey suuuuuuuck.

[AHF]

23 minutes ago, Dejay said:

You won't say it but I will. WE CAN'T DRAFT. For every Dennis Schoeder and Jeff Teague they find (Horford was manna from Heaven and a Gearon pick), we end up drafting twice as many Adam Keefes, Al Woods, and Josh Childresses. 

Give me Option 6 all day long. We need to contend in 2017, not in 2024....

You confident that we get good value via the trade route?  I'm not.

Let's see what our recent first round picks ended up getting us in trade:

2013 #16 overall - traded before he played a minute for a little cap space that was used to get nothing.

2014 #15 overall  - traded after showing nothing over 19 total minutes played for a future pick years down the line that is at best #15 overall and at worst is a pair of second rounders

2015 #15 overall - traded for 2 second rounders and THJr

 

Now we will be looking to trade the #21 overall pick for a "good veteran."  I'd rather hope for the next Schröder.

[AHF]

28 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

One more time....WE SUCK AT DRAFTING.  We screwed the pooch on too many lottery picks and didn't get serviceable rotation players with our later 1st round picks.  There is no denying that no matter the spin.

Current management hasn't even made a draft pick yet.  I'm not comfortable basing future success on past failures given the investment in scouting resources and change in decision-makers.  It is kind of like saying, "Don't draft a quarterback.  The ones selected by former GMs stunk.  That means all future QBs that our new GM drafts will be terrible."

[Dejay]

37 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Ah, that's some bull.  No cheating.  I got you Priest Lauderdale and Ed Gray of memory, sun!  Why are they significant?  'Cause dey suuuuuuuck.

You know I don't play fair, I play to win. I'll spot you an Armond Hill (taken before Alex English). Yep, I threw up in my mouth upon seeing that, too...

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, AHF said:

Current management hasn't even made a draft pick yet.  I'm not comfortable basing future success on past failures given the investment in scouting resources and change in decision-makers.  It is kind of like saying, "Don't draft a quarterback.  The ones selected by former GMs stunk.  That means all future QBs that our new GM drafts will be terrible."

Very True.

[Dejay]

40 minutes ago, AHF said:

You confident that we get good value via the trade route?  I'm not.

Let's see what our recent first round picks ended up getting us in trade:

2013 #16 overall - traded before he played a minute for a little cap space that was used to get nothing.

2014 #15 overall  - traded after showing nothing over 19 total minutes played for a future pick years down the line that is at best #15 overall and at worst is a pair of second rounders

2015 #15 overall - traded for 2 second rounders and THJr

 

Now we will be looking to trade the #21 overall pick for a "good veteran."  I'd rather hope for the next Schröder.

My youngest daughter hopes for a pony on her birthday next month and that's not happening, either. I'd rather parlay that pick and (insert player here) for a much better talent. I've heard one GM after the next say that they're much better in the draft and know what they're doing, only to end up with guys who can't play like the last one they replaced. They are in 'prove me that I'm wrong' mode; they don't get the benefit of the doubt of being brand new when it comes to this. This franchise totally STINKS OUT LOUD in the draft. Until they prove otherwise, well...

Edited June 20, 2016 by Dejay

[Guest]

Just now, Dejay said:

My youngest daughter hopes for a pony on her birthday next month and that's not happening, either. I'd rather parlay that pick and (insert player here) for a much better talent. They totally STINK OUT LOUD in the draft. Until they prove otherwise, well...

@DejayYou better get that pony, lol.

My daughter wanted a pony too, but to ease the "No' transition we had a 'Petting Zoo party including a pony ride.  They came to our house and set up everything.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Current management hasn't even made a draft pick yet.  I'm not comfortable basing future success on past failures given the investment in scouting resources and change in decision-makers.  It is kind of like saying, "Don't draft a quarterback.  The ones selected by former GMs stunk.  That means all future QBs that our new GM drafts will be terrible."

Current Management was a part of the decision making process though. 

 

[Diesel]

 

How do you turn Luck into something you meant to do??

Quote

There’s no discounting the factor that luck played in the Spurs getting their hands on Leonard but you also have to give them credit for patiently developing a late first-round pick from a small school (George Hill) into a guy that a team would be willing to give up a lottery pick for as well as the way in which their coaching staff helped Leonard turn his three-point shot from a liability on draft night to one of the most efficient in the entire NBA. The overarching factor is that San Antonio never forget the importance of the draft and never let competing for championships distract them from the task of building for the future.

If you recall, Popp didn't want to trade Hill.  Budenholzer convinced him that it was the right move to make. 

As we move forward, we will never be a team that attracts top notch Free Agents and we may never be the team in the lottery.  However, we have to get some awareness that as we develop players, other teams will want them.  Look at Toronto..  They wanted DMC.  Look at Toronto and Boston.. they want Horf.

Budcox has to have that same edge that Bud had in San Antonio.   Wiling to make the right move at the right time. 

[AHF]

31 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Current Management was a part of the decision making process though. 

 

And current management was a huge part in Kawhi Leonard.  I'm not writing them off.  Plus, given the total lack of playing time our recent picks had with the team I am pretty sure Bud wasn't salivating over any of them.  If they were "Bud's guys" then he has no real commitment to developing a guy who he was apparently a big part of drafting (according to your post).  If you are a big part of drafting a guy, you give him more than 6 minutes per month.

[Hawkmoor]

The best move is to  keep the pick and get that forward out of St. Johns.  Move teague for Noel and whatever they can get from Philly.

[Dejay]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@DejayYou better get that pony, lol.

My daughter wanted a pony too, but to ease the "No' transition we had a 'Petting Zoo party including a pony ride.  They came to our house and set up everything.

Little Miss Dejay and I had an understanding. We'll be hitting Skyzone instead...

[Thomas]

2 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

The best move is to  keep the pick and get that forward out of St. Johns.  Move teague for Noel and whatever they can get from Philly.

If thats possible with all that has happened recently then a pretty good deal. The whatever else from Philly could be the SF shooter Covington and spare change ( our Hawks love acquiring those second round picks don't they). 

[Hawkmoor]

2 minutes ago, Thomas said:

If thats possible with all that has happened recently then a pretty good deal. The whatever else from Philly could be the SF shooter Covington and spare change ( our Hawks love acquiring those second round picks don't they). 

Philly dont care what Teague said, they know its just him being upset.  Its a matter of how bad the Hawks want to move Teague and how bad Philly wants him or not.  That Teague for Noel/ Covington is a excellent deal, especially if they do that and resign Al.

[ViewsFromTheSquawk]

I don't want this being another Justice Winslow scenario where were right there to get him an he just slips away... 

[Diesel]

Referring back to a nice piece of writing...

Quote

When Pete Babcock watched the last of the Lenny Wilkens playoff teams gets blitzed by the Knicks in the 1999 playoffs, he made the decision to start over. Mookie and Smitty were traded as Babcock embarked on rebuilding.

It did not turn out well, as Kelly Dwyer lays out in Ball Don't Lie yesterday.

It took nine very long seasons to get back to the postseason, a stretch dotted with many failed first round picks, poor basketball and myriad punch-lines at the franchise's expense.

In the draft, the supposed golden challis for such putridity, for every Jason Terry and Josh Smith, there were a number of good guys who just couldn't make a positive impact on the Hawks rotation.

Such is the risk with letting go of that playoff run - one false lottery pick or bad free agent signing could limit the success of the franchise moving forward. LeBron James is a no-brainer at the top of a lottery, but there are many years where that's not the case. Few franchise saviors exist from one generation to another, which is why they are celebrated at the end of their careers with a Hall of Fame plaque.

Teams make mistakes in the draft and free agency, and those executives pay with their jobs when they are wrong. Miss on Chris Paul or have an unexplained affection forShelden Williams and the team suffers, no matter if Al Horford is your next pick. Those misses stunt the growth of the franchise and limit the ultimate upside of the team's climb.

The Hawks run with Josh Smith, Joe Johnson, Mike Woodson and Larry Drew peaked and now drifts into a new era with Danny Ferry at the controls, Mike Budenholzer on the bench and with only Al Horford as a core link to all of those teams.

They look like they will be a playoff caliber team again, stretching their postseason relevance to a likely seventh season and many executives will laud the ability to stay in the mix year after year while fans and the NBA Watchers will yawn at the averageness of the whole endeavor.

It's a success in that it's hard to win in the NBA and even harder to maintain that, season after season, especially when there is that lack of franchise player at the top of the roster. San Antonio has had an amazing run, but it helps greatly to build around David Robinson and then Tim Duncan, for sure.

I don't begrudge anyone for holding out the championship trophy as the only true measure of success - it's what you're supposed to be gunning for, to win it all. But just as I am not willing to toss out Dan Marino, Charles Barkley, Ernie Banks and the like for never winning it all, I am not willing to call these hard-working Hawks teams less than some form of success.

 

[Thomas]

Surprised Kelly Dwyer actually put such a coherent and even more, an accurate piece together about our Hawks. Dealing with both players and coaches. Good find.

[skimaskway23]

We will trade Teague for Noel.  Then we will trade Millsap to Denver for a package with the 7th pick to take hield or brown(whoever slips).  Then we resign horford.

[Diesel]

41 minutes ago, skimaskway23 said:

We will trade Teague for Noel.  Then we will trade Millsap to Denver for a package with the 7th pick to take hield or brown(whoever slips).  Then we resign horford.

Is this wishful thinking or something.

Teague is not going to a rookie team without resigning.   Sap for the Sap pick makes less sense for Denver.

 

[skimaskway23]

24 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Is this wishful thinking or something.

Teague is not going to a rookie team without resigning.   Sap for the Sap pick makes less sense for Denver.

 

It makes a lot of sense but I'm not gonna try and convince you because Teague and Millsap are your sacred cows.