Where are the assists??

[Diesel]

Where are the assists that we ought to be getting?

 

Im sorry, we're putting up less assists than last year and last year.. we pissed and moaned about our PG play. 

We have more bad passes than last season.

I'm not evaluating now.. it's just watching us piss away a win over some hero ball has gotten me pissed.

[NBASupes]

No good movement, no Horford, no good screens, more iso from everyone lead by Dennis, etc. 

I know you think Dwight can do work but I know he can't. He stinks in the post.

[rd79]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

Where are the assists that we ought to be getting?

Assists are a nice thing to have but unfortunately YOU NEED TO PUT THE DAMM BALL IN THE HOLE AFTER THE PASS TO GET AN ASSIST. You wanna know where the assists are? Generally Howard costs us lots of assists because defenders just hang on his arms to prevent the high percentage dunk to send him to the below 50% FT line. But as long he'd make them (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ROFL ROFL) it wouldn't hurt us because it's not the assists that count at the end but the points do. So that alone may mean 3-8 assists less per game.

BTW In FIBA basketball the passer gets an assist if the player who was fouled on an assisted shot makes at least one free throw...

And about yesterdays game: Sap, Baze and Kyle hat a combined shooting percentage of 25%. Not easy to get assists from that...

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

it's just watching us piss away a win over some hero ball has gotten me pissed.

Dennis had two more field goals than them on 12 shots less, whom should Dennis have given the ball at the end to brick it?

I know Dennis played some really bad games recently but sometimes the complaining just isn't based on facts... Don't watch the boxscore only...

Edited November 29, 2016 by rd79

[Guest]

Part of it is passing up good shots for great shots - we aren't doing that.  

Part of it is the non-existent ball and player movement

Part of it is the gawd-awful shooting percentages

Part of it is Turnovers:

18 Turnovers (16 from starters)  - 20 Assists

Baze - 1 assist, 2 TO's

Howard - 0 assists, 3 TO's

[HawkItus]

28 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Part of it is passing up good shots for great shots - we aren't doing that.  

Part of it is the non-existent ball and player movement

Part of it is the gawd-awful shooting percentages

Part of it is Turnovers:

18 Turnovers (16 from starters)  - 20 Assists

Baze - 1 assist, 2 TO's

Howard - 0 assists, 3 TO's

To be fair both Howard had probable assist negated by poor shooting.   Also, we are getting in to the offense way too late.

[Guest]

Just now, HawkItus said:

To be fair both Howard had probable assist negated by poor shooting.   Also, we are getting in to the offense way too late.

True, but the same can be said about Dennis, the truth is Howard has never been an 'assist' guy.  And it certainly doesn't help when he's turning the ball over.

[HawkItus]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

True, but the same can be said about Dennis, the truth is Howard has never been an 'assist' guy.  And it certainly doesn't help when he's turning the ball over.

I agree.  But, Dennis will learn now to get his guys the ball in the best way to alleviate turnovers.  Bounce passes from a jumping position in to D8's knees do not work lol.   Baze is trying to hard.  He wants to justify his contract and is not letting the game come to him.   But, Kyle, Baze, and Timmy have to hit their open shots.  At least Timmy is driving to the hoop more lately.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

I agree.  But, Dennis will learn now to get his guys the ball in the best way to alleviate turnovers.  Bounce passes from a jumping position in to D8's knees do not work lol.   Baze is trying to hard.  He wants to justify his contract and is not letting the game come to him.   But, Kyle, Baze, and Timmy have to hit their open shots.  At least Timmy is driving to the hoop more lately.

Bazemore has never let the game come to him. He's always been  a wild card

[macdaddy]

I just look at it like this.   Dwight and Kyle are doing what they've always done.   They have a 10 year history and to expect them to suddenly do more is unrealistic.   Sap is really underperforming.    Baze is underperforming and we expected growth from him not merely just more of the same.   I'd say Dennis is playing about like you'd expect at this point.     The bench is hard working but lacking in talent so i don't expect greater things from them either.    So it's really on Sap, Baze and Dennis to improve but mostly it's on Sap and Baze.   They are not supposed to be role players.  

[rd79]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Part of it is passing up good shots for great shots - we aren't doing that.  

I always was skeptical about this one. This only works as long as players are shooting lights out or at least consistent. Since everybody on this team shoots very streaky at the moment you never know what's a great shot on a particular day... If I remember correctly there was at least one fastbreak situation yesterday, where a player avoided a good two pointer and gave someone else a wide open three, which eventually was bricked. Points that might decide a game...

If somebody is extremly bored he might do me a favor and dig some stats to find some facts about the effect of giving up good shots for great ones in general and for us over the last two seasons and this season. If such stats are even possible..

Edited November 29, 2016 by rd79

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, rd79 said:

I always was skeptical about this one. This only works as long as players are shooting lights out or at least consistent. Since everybody on this team shoots very streaky at the moment you never know what's a great shot on a particular day... If I remember correctly there was at least one fastbreak situation yesterday, where a player avoided a good two pointer and gave someone else a wide open three, which eventually was bricked. Points that might decide a game...

If somebody is extremly bored he might do me a favor and dig some stats to find some facts about the effect of giving up good shots for great ones in general and for us over the last two seasons and this season. If such stats are even possible..

I know what you're saying but i think you're both right.   

1. We aren't giving up good shots for great shots

2. We are giving up good shots for terrible shots/throwing the ball away

But the second one is chemistry and confidence so hopefully that will come.

 

 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, rd79 said:

I always was skeptical about this one. This only works as long as players are shooting lights out or at least consistent. Since everybody on this team shoots very streaky at the moment you never know what's a great shot on a particular day... If I remember correctly there was at least one fastbreak situation yesterday, where a player avoided a good two pointer and gave someone else a wide open three, which eventually was bricked. Points that might decide a game...

If somebody is extremly bored he might do me a favor and dig some stats to find some facts about the effect of giving up good shots for great ones in general and for us over the last two seasons and this season. If such stats are even possible..

While what you said is true, how many possible good shots are we passing up? Not many.

[DS17Fanboy]

vor 6 Stunden, Diesel sagte:

Where are the assists that we ought to be getting?

 

Im sorry, we're putting up less assists than last year and last year.. we pissed and moaned about our PG play. 

We have more bad passes than last season.

I'm not evaluating now.. it's just watching us piss away a win over some hero ball has gotten me pissed.

Obviously Bud called that play as he did the one after that with Baze. Play whas interrupted and these are typical young player crunch-time mistakes, not having the swag to be creative after that.

Edited November 29, 2016 by DS17Fanboy

[DS17Fanboy]

vor 1 Stunde, NBASupes sagte:

While what you said is true, how many possible good shots are we passing up? Not many.

I'd say both of you are right. Its a whole lot of both.

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, macdaddy said:

I just look at it like this.   Dwight and Kyle are doing what they've always done.   They have a 10 year history and to expect them to suddenly do more is unrealistic.   Sap is really underperforming.    Baze is underperforming and we expected growth from him not merely just more of the same.   I'd say Dennis is playing about like you'd expect at this point.     The bench is hard working but lacking in talent so i don't expect greater things from them either.    So it's really on Sap, Baze and Dennis to improve but mostly it's on Sap and Baze.   They are not supposed to be role players.  

No.  This lets the obvious off the hook.

1.  Coaching.

2.  PG Play.

When we brought Dwight in, it was a paradigm shift.  We should have expected the way we run our offense would be different.  Having a dominant big in the paint requires a reeducation.  We can't expect to just plug in D8 for Horf and say.. There...

Offensively, our game plan has to change.

With that, we picked Dennis because he Sees the floor so well and makes good decisions with the ball.  Where is that?  Now, his backup looks better than him and his backup is a chucker.

Blaming Baze and Korver is useless.  They are guys who run to a spot.. move around and wait for the ball.    Our offense has to develop to use them in the best light and then Dennis has to find them.

 

[lethalweapon3]

I'm getting a sugar high from all the sound, balanced, thoughtful commentary in this here thread. Keep it up!

~lw3

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Diesel said:

No.  This lets the obvious off the hook.

1.  Coaching.

2.  PG Play.

When we brought Dwight in, it was a paradigm shift.  We should have expected the way we run our offense would be different.  Having a dominant big in the paint requires a reeducation.  We can't expect to just plug in D8 for Horf and say.. There...

Offensively, our game plan has to change.

With that, we picked Dennis because he Sees the floor so well and makes good decisions with the ball.  Where is that?  Now, his backup looks better than him and his backup is a chucker.

Blaming Baze and Korver is useless.  They are guys who run to a spot.. move around and wait for the ball.    Our offense has to develop to use them in the best light and then Dennis has to find them.

 

Our plan has changed per Bud:

Quote

Budenholzer said. “I keep saying that we’re trying to do a lot of things the same. I think some of the motion in the offense that we’ve run has been predicated on trying to play inside-out, so hopefully we’ll do it more [now]. Hopefully we can emphasize different things and emphasize different options.”

Players are still adjusting to that.

Then tell  Bazemore to stop trying to dribble. I can't remember which poster said it but use Baze ala Bruce Bowen - defense, spot up corner 3's, cuts to the basket.  NO DRIBBLING - Stop trying to be Ginobli and be Bruce Bowen.

@macdaddy is correct - Millsap and Bazemore are underwhelming so far - both very inconsistent.

[Guest]

Agree with Diesel here in that you can't blame the wing players as much. From what I saw last night, we need to start force feeding Sap the ball in the post and let him go to work, if he gets doubled, he needs to start swinging it. 

 

We arent getting assists because E cause we aren't sharing the ball. Once that happens, everything crumbles, we get into our sets late...rushed shots...turnovers..

 

Its on the whole team. Again though it's super early. I am a bit concerned right now about our play more than our losses. I'd honestly rather take these bumps and bruises as a team now in November rather than March or April.

 

Lets get back to the basics. Let's start playing one possession at a time. Let's share the ball. Let's get back to playing Hawks basketball.

[Lurker]

When Howard catches the ball inside, I've noticed he tries to be too fine, he's too worried about getting fouled and being sent to the line because he's a bad free throw shooter. And he's just not a good ISO post player.

There have been games to blame Dennis for (that I'm not thinking have the outcome changed due to other issues unless you have an MVP point guard) but this one was not one of them. The ones that are came vs the Lakers (this game also has the problem of last season vs the Wolves, they're very young and athletic and simply out athletic'ed the team when they needed to), Jazz (this was purely bad by both PGs), and even Pacers although it was a win.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Lurker

[Sothron]

I don't blame Dennis. You don't get assists for feeding a post player who then gets fouled (something I think FIBA does right) without scoring a basket. You also don't get assists when players are flat out putting up bricks (see Bazemore and Millsap).

It is however fair to point out that Dennis and all of our wing players need to do a much better job at feeding a post player. I also have to say Dwight needs to set better screens. He is still quick enough to set a good screen and roll to the basket with his arm up to go for a dunk attempt at the basket. Have we seen this at all?