Gary Neal to the Hawks!

[sturt]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

throw in Mo Williams as well

But... ya can't.

Can only be traded by hissself for two months... which means he can only be traded by hisself.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Right.

Which, then, is why you look to maximize the assets you have, and in this case, that means especially zeroing-in on who fits the job description and is also available at a price that allows you to deal Mo's contract.

Wonder who's out there that's plausible.... if only someone could do the research and get back to us..... if only...

*wink*

 

Since I'm guessing some didn't get the *wink* part of that...

 

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, sturt said:

But... ya can't.

Can only be traded by hissself for two months... which means he can only be traded by hisself.

I forgot that.  I previously posted he can't be traded for 2 months with another player which comes after the trade deadline - so moot point all around.

I doubt any team trades for him by himself.  We'd  have to attach  some kind of a pick to him.

[sturt]

Yes.

Hence the ....

 

[Guest]

@JayBirdHawk @sturt help me understand this lol...

[thecampster]

There is a benefit in this trade to Denver. http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm  The Salary Cap this year is $94.143 million. But there is also a minimum salary a team must spend (cap floor) $84.73 million. Any money under the cap floor is surcharged to the team and distributed to the players. 

Denver's current salary sits at  $75,614,323. Regardless of any salary they bring in, they still will have to pay out $84.73 million.  So there is no cost to Denver to take on the extra 50% (1/2 a season) of Mo's $2.2 million. However, the Hawks are forwarding on part of the cash considerations from the Korver deal. So Denver is money to take on Mo and waive him. There is no cost to Denver, but they get paid.

NBA rules require something for something, so they send on the draft right to Cenk to fulfill that.  Denver loses nothing to do the deal and get cash. The Hawks get a roster spot and cap space to either sign Neal or do a 2 for 1 trade at the deadline.

[Diesel]

On 1/14/2017 at 9:14 PM, capstone21 said:

He can shoot but he can't run an offense at all ... I don't see him as a replacement for Delaney 

Delaney can't run the offense either.   I think what Bud wants is continuous movement and shooters everywhere. 

 

[hazer]

Anyone but the kitchen Cenk 

[rd79]

FUN FACT

Quote

On February 10, 2015, Neal was traded, along with Miami's 2019 second-round draft pick, to the Minnesota Timberwolves in exchange for Mo Williams, Troy Daniels and cash considerations.^[22]

Not the 1st time Mo was send somewhere to get Gary.

Since Gary wasn't active recently he might be out of shape, here is an up-to-date picture

[capstone21]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

Delaney can't run the offense either.   I think what Bud wants is continuous movement and shooters everywhere. 

 

Honestly, the last week or so Delaney has been doing a great job of running the offense ... in some cases out playing Dennis

[Thomas]

Article about Neal and his last destination.

http://texas.dleague.nba.com/news/gary-neal-brings-experience-shooting-legends/

[lethalweapon3]

30 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

Honestly, the last week or so Delaney has been doing a great job of running the offense ... in some cases out playing Dennis

Speaking of Delaney, Neal's a Baltimore native (also like Delaney; both played high school ball in nearby Towson) who started his pro career overseas (like Delaney, an All-Eurocup Team honoree) before getting The Spurs Way treatment. For however long he's here, he'll be imparting wisdom much in the way Hump does for his fellow Minnesotan Muskie.

EDIT: Also, on the defensive side of things, using the NBA.com's recipe, Delaney leads all Eastern Conference players in Defensive Rating (min. 15 minutes per game & 20 games played).

Dewayne Dedmon, Spurs - 95.3

Jonathan Simmons, Spurs - 96.8

Luc Mbah a Moute, Clippers - 97.6

Malcolm Delaney, HAWKS - 98.0

Andrew Bogut, Mavericks - 98.0

All-Star Zaza Pachulia, Warriors - 98.1

(Paul Millsap ranks 4th in the East, 99.9)

~lw3

[Guest]

2 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

Speaking of Delaney, Neal's a Baltimore native (also like Delaney; both played high school ball in nearby Towson) who started his pro career overseas (like Delaney, an All-Eurocup Team honoree) before getting The Spurs Way treatment. For however long he's here, he'll be imparting wisdom much in the way Hump does for his fellow Minnesotan Muskie.

EDIT: Also, on the defensive side of things, using the NBA.com's recipe, Delaney leads all Eastern Conference players in Defensive Rating (min. 15 minutes per game & 20 games played).

Dewayne Dedmon, Spurs - 95.3

Jonathan Simmons, Spurs - 96.8

Luc Mbah a Moute, Clippers - 97.6

Malcolm Delaney, HAWKS - 98.0

Andrew Bogut, Mavericks - 98.0

All-Star Zaza Pachulia, Warriors - 98.1

(Paul Millsap ranks 4th in the East, 99.9)

~lw3

[sturt]

3 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

Speaking of Delaney, Neal's a Baltimore native (also like Delaney; both played high school ball in nearby Towson) who started his pro career overseas (like Delaney, an All-Eurocup Team honoree) before getting The Spurs Way treatment. For however long he's here, he'll be imparting wisdom much in the way Hump does for his fellow Minnesotan Muskie.

EDIT: Also, on the defensive side of things, using the NBA.com's recipe, Delaney leads all Eastern Conference players in Defensive Rating (min. 15 minutes per game & 20 games played).

Dewayne Dedmon, Spurs - 95.3

Jonathan Simmons, Spurs - 96.8

Luc Mbah a Moute, Clippers - 97.6

Malcolm Delaney, HAWKS - 98.0

Andrew Bogut, Mavericks - 98.0

All-Star Zaza Pachulia, Warriors - 98.1

(Paul Millsap ranks 4th in the East, 99.9)

~lw3

I feel so well informed by this branch campus of Hawks University. And you can't beat the low, low tuition.

[sturt]

Btw, Marc Stein, if you're reading this...

Let it never be said I didn't give credit where credit was (after all) due.

Got one right.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

Speaking of Delaney, Neal's a Baltimore native (also like Delaney; both played high school ball in nearby Towson) who started his pro career overseas (like Delaney, an All-Eurocup Team honoree) before getting The Spurs Way treatment. For however long he's here, he'll be imparting wisdom much in the way Hump does for his fellow Minnesotan Muskie.

EDIT: Also, on the defensive side of things, using the NBA.com's recipe, Delaney leads all Eastern Conference players in Defensive Rating (min. 15 minutes per game & 20 games played).

Dewayne Dedmon, Spurs - 95.3

Jonathan Simmons, Spurs - 96.8

Luc Mbah a Moute, Clippers - 97.6

Malcolm Delaney, HAWKS - 98.0

Andrew Bogut, Mavericks - 98.0

All-Star Zaza Pachulia, Warriors - 98.1

(Paul Millsap ranks 4th in the East, 99.9)

~lw3

That's why you can't trust NBA.com's recipe for Defensive Rating.

If you go by their metric, here's our team by defensive rating.

 

Bembry - 93.4

Prince - 94.6

Delaney - 98.0

Dunleavy - 98.0

Millsap - 99.9

Howard - 101.2

Thabo - 101.4

Hardaway Jr - 102.5

Humphries - 103.1

Bazemore - 104.6

Schröder - 104.9

Muscala - 106.4

Scott - 107.7

 

I think Basketball-reference.com gives a more accurate depiction on what are players look like on defense.

 

Howard - 100

Thabo - 102

Millsap - 102

Prince - 104

Humphries - 104

Baze - 105

Dunleavy - 107

Scott - 107

Muscala - 107

Bembry - 109

Delaney - 109

Hardaway Jr - 109

Schröder - 109

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lethalweapon3]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

That's why you can't trust NBA.com's recipe for Defensive Rating.

If you go by their metric, here's our team by defensive rating.

 

Bembry - 93.4

Prince - 94.6

Delaney - 98.0

Dunleavy - 98.0

Millsap - 99.9

Howard - 101.2

Thabo - 101.4

Hardaway Jr - 102.5

Humphries - 103.1

Bazemore - 104.6

Schröder - 104.9

Muscala - 106.4

Scott - 107.7

 

I think Basketball-reference.com gives a more accurate depiction on what are players look like on defense.

 

Howard - 100

Thabo - 102

Millsap - 102

Prince - 104

Humphries - 104

Baze - 105

Dunleavy - 107

Scott - 107

Muscala - 107

Bembry - 109

Delaney - 109

Hardaway Jr - 109

Schröder - 109

I agree, Bball-Ref's 11 herbs and spices meets the eye test far better than NBA.com's. If the former's ratings were more pliable (can they at least go out, like, one decimal everywhere other than just the leaderboards?) they'd be even more reliable. I'd rather that NBA just go with Bball-Ref's data assumptions and roll with it.

Both sets, of course, depend on the defensive impact of the lineups a player's in, plus the offensive skillsets of the opponents (backups have been customarily worse on the defensive ends). So when it comes to major minute players (Millsap at one end, Isaiah way over on the other), both sites seem to get "ratings" relatively on-the-mark.

But there's more noise in the NBA.com figures (perhaps due to their assumptions about what does/doesn't constitute a possession? I haven't cared enough to dig in). Thus, for the minor-minute players, guys like Delaney, All-Star Zaza, and Luke Babbitt look like DPOY nominees, when they're just more likely just tagging along better alongside Millsap/Thabo, KD/Draymond, Whiteside/Whoever (respectively) than their teammates are.

Nothing in the per-game stats are eye-popping defensively about Malcolm's game (1 block all year, a steal every two or three games). But among his six top 5-Man combos, Kyle Korver (still love ya, Kyle) is in just one of them (as per B-R). Comparatively, Kyle figures prominently in 6 of Dennis' 8 top 5-Man lineups (in terms of minutes played).

Also, Malcolm has been more effective playing alongside fellow bench man Moose (2-Man Net +7.1 points per-100 possessions, 400 minutes, as per B-R) than Schröder has been (2-Man Net -11.3 points per-100, 427 minutes). Same deal with Hump (+6.9, vs. -18.9), to a lesser extent. That's how it should work, with bench guys playing well together, but the discrepancy is wider than one would expect.

Where Dennis' lineups have been more likely to pile up steals (thank you, Paul), Delaney's has been more effective on the opponent eFG% front (49.8% on-court, compared to Schröder lineups' 51.2%, as per B-R) and just creating turnovers overall (thank you, Thabo 'n Timmy).

Opponents are also getting fouled and taking free throws far less when Delaney is in instead of Schröder. Individually, Delaney actually fouls more often than Dennis, but perhaps it's less of the shooting foul variety, plus whatever their teammates (like starters Dwight and Baze) are doing. Both guys get to that 109 D-Rating on Bball-Ref, but for variously different reasons.

Turnover creation and opponent free throw production must figure more heavily into NBA.com's formula; that's because, despite Malcolm "leading" the team in D-Rating (cough), opponents on shots he's defending shoot 2.6 percentage points better than their season average (per The Dot Com). That's the worst mark on this team, among regulars (Dennis' defended opponents shoot 1.1 percentage points worse). This all goes to suggest that, whenever it comes to NBA.com's formula, it's much less about your individual activity than it is the company you keep.

In closing: WELCOME, GARY NEAL!

~lw3

[BigDog90]

On 1/15/2017 at 1:14 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Unless Woj tweets it, I usually take a wait and see approach.  Like you said, he probably worked out for the Hawks - that would be the only truth, the rest is speculation.

Woj was wrong on the Horford signing. 

[BigDog90]

They wanted him for a while.

[lethalweapon3]

B-More Careful!

~lw3