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[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

I'm sure IT even told him, "Hey, my boy Danny is gonna give you a max. You should come to BOS." Does that matter? Did we not know that Boston and other teams were going to offer a max? Wasn't that obvious? Did he really need IT to tell him that?

Point remains... The Hawks had the final say in terms of if they wanted Horford or not. Boston offered him $28.4M per year... He wanted to play for the Hawks for that same exact $28.4M per year and was willing to take a $10M paycut from his full max. That doesn't seem that unreasonable to me..... Instead Hawks management said no and wanted him to play for $27M per year and take a $16M paycut from his full max. This doesn't even take into the account the randomness that management was doing on the side in terms of Millsap and Howard that likely didn't make Horford happy.

Hawks gave him a fair offer.  If he wanted to remain here he would have.  He didn't want to unless we paid over whatever the Hawks number was.

Many of us feel he had a foot out the door for the past 2 years so his inquiries with Thomas (and others) do matter.  IMHO they're part of a pattern which also includes his listless play at times.  So, IMHO, yes it does matter.

[Thomas]

1 hour ago, Bankingitbig said:

I don't quite get to the understanding that you do in terms of how it was better to get Howard and lose Horford for nothing,

Didn't say anything about it being better one way or another in my post, I did say understand why things went that way. Dwight had his agreement before Al left. Don't think Al was going to sign after that had been acknowledged whether his agent says so or not. If we knew he would literally quit against the Cavs last year pretty sure everyone would have been on board to trade him at last year's deadline and have something to show from it. Guess I might have missed a few warning signs but then he made our situation obvious in that series. Dwight was a very high risk but was/is a rebounder, expensive but its why he is here. 

[DJlaysitup]

GO CELTICS !!

[Bankingitbig]

28 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Didn't say anything about it being better one way or another in my post, I did say understand why things went that way. Dwight had his agreement before Al left. Don't think Al was going to sign after that had been acknowledged whether his agent says so or not. If we knew he would literally quit against the Cavs last year pretty sure everyone would have been on board to trade him at last year's deadline and have something to show from it. Guess I might have missed a few warning signs but then he made our situation obvious in that series. Dwight was a very high risk but was/is a rebounder, expensive but its why he is here. 

I understand the rationale of "We can't get past the Cavs because we don't have a rebounder" in a complete vacuum, which makes sense as to why they paid Howard $23.5M to rebound and clog the paint. But when you look at it with the context of losing your 2nd best player and allstar Al Horford, who was a key reason for how the offense ran, then no... I can't get to the same understanding of signing Howard to beat the Cavs. Shouldn't it have been obvious that by losing Horford we likely weren't going to be competing against the Cavs deep in the playoffs anyways?

Edited May 1, 2017 by Bankingitbig

[Thomas]

5 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

I understand the rationale of "We can't get past the Cavs because we don't have a rebounder" in a complete vacuum, which makes sense as to why they paid Howard $23.5M to rebound and clog the paint. But when you look at it with the context of losing your 2nd best player and allstar Al Horford, who was a key reason for how the offense ran, then no... I can't get to the same understanding of signing Howard to beat the Cavs. Shouldn't it have been obvious that by losing Horford we likely weren't going to be competing against the Cavs deep in the playoffs anyways?

Don't think Bud thought we would lose Al by signing Dwight. Believe he thought Al would be our PF moving forward.

[Bankingitbig]

Just now, Thomas said:

Don't think Bud thought we would lose Al by signing Dwight. Believe he thought Al would be our PF moving forward.

Then Budcox deserves blame. They gambled with Al over $6M for 5 years and lost. Now they are faced with a much more difficult decision in Millsap on a much worse contract. Also, why wouldn't you try and lock up Horford's contract first before agreeing with Howard?

Either way, I don't necessarily believe that was the case. My own personal unverified opinion is that Budcox's hands were tied by Ressler. Ressler and Koonin wanted a superstar that they could market to Atlanta and who better than the homegrown Dwight Howard. So Budcox had to get Howard regardless of anything else, which is why negotiations with him went so fast. Budcox wanted Horford back and were going to trade Millsap post resigning Horford. They stuck to a strict $ amount on Horford and he said no, which I think was a mistake because the $6M/5years difference is WAY BETTER than what we are potentially about to offer Millsap, not to mention we could have actually had some return in Millsap (even if it wasn't equal value, still better than nothing). My own conspiracy is Blackstone was a key part in terms of coming up with a plan for negotiating Horford's contract and didn't do a good job, which is why he resigned right after free agency despite being in the Hawks front office for only a year.

[marco102]

19 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

I understand the rationale of "We can't get past the Cavs because we don't have a rebounder" in a complete vacuum, which makes sense as to why they paid Howard $23.5M to rebound and clog the paint. But when you look at it with the context of losing your 2nd best player and allstar Al Horford, who was a key reason for how the offense ran, then no... I can't get to the same understanding of signing Howard to beat the Cavs. Shouldn't it have been obvious that by losing Horford we likely weren't going to be competing against the Cavs deep in the playoffs anyways?

Let's not blame this season on the front court.  The problems with this team last year and this year is the back court missing open shots.  When Howard was on the floor they missed open shots when they were off the floor they missed open shots.  We need a wing, besides Dennis, that can get his own shot and knock down the open three at 40% plus clip.  If we get that, the offense will be fine going forward.

[Thomas]

18 hours ago, Bankingitbig said:

Budcox wanted Horford back and were going to trade Millsap post resigning Horford. They stuck to a strict $ amount on Horford and he said no, which I think was a mistake because the $6M/5years difference is WAY BETTER than what we are potentially about to offer Millsap, not to mention we could have actually had some return in Millsap (even if it wasn't equal value, still better than nothing).

Afraid moving forward we are indeed going to wish we had made that supposed trade with Phoenix. A nice round one pick and one rumor was Brandon Knight or someone that counts being involved along with other possible young assets. Hope I'm wrong about that possible regret.

[marco102]

11 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

Then Budcox deserves blame. They gambled with Al over $6M for 5 years and lost. Now they are faced with a much more difficult decision in Millsap on a much worse contract. Also, why wouldn't you try and lock up Horford's contract first before agreeing with Howard?

Either way, I don't necessarily believe that was the case. My own personal unverified opinion is that Budcox's hands were tied by Ressler. Ressler and Koonin wanted a superstar that they could market to Atlanta and who better than the homegrown Dwight Howard. So Budcox had to get Howard regardless of anything else, which is why negotiations with him went so fast. Budcox wanted Horford back and were going to trade Millsap post resigning Horford. They stuck to a strict $ amount on Horford and he said no, which I think was a mistake because the $6M/5years difference is WAY BETTER than what we are potentially about to offer Millsap, not to mention we could have actually had some return in Millsap (even if it wasn't equal value, still better than nothing). My own conspiracy is Blackstone was a key part in terms of coming up with a plan for negotiating Horford's contract and didn't do a good job, which is why he resigned right after free agency despite being in the Hawks front office for only a year.

I believe the plan was to bring back Horford and Howard and shop Milsap for draft capital.  Horford blew that up.  The man was talking with Isiah at the All-star game about playing in Boston.  I'm sorry, but he already had 1 foot and all his rebounding out the door.  Bud was giving Al exactly what he wanted, a move to PF.  Al decided to leave.  We've debated this endlessly on this board,  The conclusion is Whoreford wanted to be a Celtic.  What the Hawks did was offer him the average salary of the his contract with the Celtics for 5 years, which is more than any team could offer him and was more than fair

Edited May 1, 2017 by marco102

[Thomas]

Still believe Al was a total traitor but was thinking about today's discussions on it. If Sap was traded and Al stayed. Dennis, Phoenix first/Tim, Prince, Al and Dwight as starters coming up. Less cap slap to boot depending on the return from that trade. Our own picks we load up on bigs and figure out backup point. Just throwing shat against a wall here but feel we would definitely have a better idea where we would be standing. 

[Guest]

Sorry, I can't be rooting for no dude that does something as hoe-ish as sitting on a revenge-post for 2 years ...

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/john-wall-waits-2-years-210005217.html

Then again, I cain't be rooting for the Smelltics either so ... metor strike it is.

[Thomas]

If they beat the hell out of each other for seven games and the Wizards walk away with that last win, that will be ok with me, doesn't mean I have to watch it so I won't. Will be watching basketball history unfold in a different series.

[marco102]

I'm proudly rooting for every Western Conference team the rest of the way. Pop needs to go out and get his 6th! 

Edited May 1, 2017 by marco102

[Plainview1981]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Sorry, I can't be rooting for no dude that does something as hoe-ish as sitting on a revenge-post for 2 years ...

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/john-wall-waits-2-years-210005217.html

Then again, I cain't be rooting for the Smelltics either so ... metor strike it is.

He can say whatever he wants, but it's not the same team that it was two years ago.

Knocking off Boston last year didn't stop me wrong hating that KG era teams any less. Wall is living in a fantasy world.

[Plainview1981]

6 minutes ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

He can say whatever he wants, but it's not the same team that it was two years ago.

Knocking off Boston last year didn't stop me wrong hating that KG era teams any less. Wall is living in a fantasy world.

I was saying that beating Boston last year didn't make me hate the KG era Celtics teams any less.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

I was saying that beating Boston last year didn't make me hate the KG era Celtics teams any less.

We got you.  I forgive you for misusing the "kg" moniker.  Do better next time, Hots.

[AtLaS]

We wouldn't have beat WAS with Horford, this is just a grass being greener on the other side situation.  We had Horford for nearly 10 years, we weren't winning with him.  I'm glad we aren't stuck with his 30M per contract.

Horford will not be grabbing 5 offensive boards a game, have y'all not seen him play before?  He's the same exact player he always was.  A decent to above average defender with a good jumpshot and terrible rebounding, he didn't even average 7 boards a game on a team desparate for rebounds.  Nothing has changed.

Edited May 1, 2017 by AtLaS

[Thomas]

Like underdogs so guessing that could be a small part of why I love our Hawk's so much but since the Bucks and their charismatic Freak are out too I'm going to root hard for the Jazz. Quite the Quin fan these days. 

[Bankingitbig]

Definitely rooting for the Jazz, but see them having a short series against the Warriors. Past them, I would prefer SA or HOU. Don't like anyone in the East, but I would still root for WSH over BOS.

[Guest]

Only team I'd root for in the East is the *choke* Cavs *gag* because of Kial and my GT guy, Shumpert.

In the West it's Spurs, Jazz, meteor - in that order.