49 years, 0 championships

[ISOJOE]

One question: Have the Atlanta Hawks ever been a real contender? 

I thought about it and my answer was no but I wasn't born when Nique was in his prime.

[NBASupes]

The answer is clearly no. Our best team was broken up during MJ's first lockout. 

Other than that. The best team we have ever had was the 4 All Star squad a couple years ago. But that wasn't really a playoff type of squad for contending. 

So no. We have been a pretty just happy to be in the playoffs type of org. We aren't losers like the Clippers but we are probably the face of the threadmill. 

 

Now, St. Louis Hawks is a different story and was elite. But they had severe racism issues to the point they traded Bill Russell because he couldn't live in St. Louis. 

 

The Hawks never really have an A to A+ player. Nique was an A-, Horford was B+/A-, Sap, Deke, Hudson, Pistol Pete who didn't play up to his A level talent and Iso Joe were similar. But we never had a questionable HOF type of talent since Pettit for his time period of course. We had Blaylock and Smitty who were great B level players and we had some really good role players like Doc Rivers, Kevin Willis, Josh Smith and others in our franchise history in Atlanta. 

 

To be great, you either need two A+ players or one with two A to A- talents, three A talents, four B+ talents being great fits and that's about it. But Atlanta never had that and Atlanta never won.  

Edited May 9, 2017 by NBASupes

[Thomas]

In the late seventies we had Fast Eddie, Drew and Roundfield and took the reigning champs Washington to seven games in the second round. We were considered their biggest threat, was a great series. They went back to the finals that year but lost. Another really would have to be the year of the infamous fourth quarter between Bird and Nique in the eighties. We had a 3-2 lead and were playing game six at home. Celtics won the last two and went on to win it all. The ECF sweep of us a couple of years ago wasn't close but was big news to make it to that round, but there again wasn't close. Think the first two mentioned were more compelling with being such a threat to the teams that did go to the finals even though we went out in the second in both. Had great coaches as well, Brown in the seventies and intro to '80 then Fratello in the eighties.

[lethalweapon3]

We've also had our opportunities seeding-wise to get into at least the Conference Finals, on the theoretical strength of homecourt advanatage, but fell woefully short.

1970... #1 seed in the West... referee shenanigans on a "How's That for Data" level allow Jerry West's #2 seed Lakers to sweep the Western Division finals. Lakers go on to the next round, lose to Willis Reed's Knicks in Game 7 of the NBA Finals.

1987... #2 seed in the East... but lost to Isiah's #3 seed Pistons 4-1 (the series where Zeke danced on the Hawks after hitting the game winner in Game 4). Granting Detroit their first conference/division final appearance since 1962, the Pistons would lose Game 7 to the Celtics (lost 4-2 to Lakers in NBA Finals) in the conference finals.

1994... #1 seed in the East... but we got cute and traded Nique a couple months before... squeaked by Steve Smith's 8-seed Miami (3-2), but outpaced by Reggie Miller and Indiana (a #5 seed that swept #4 Shaq 'n Penny the prior round) in the second round. Pacers lost Game 7 to Patrick Ewing's Knicks, who lost Game 7 in turn to Hakeem's Rockets.

1999... #4 seed in the East... but the #1 seed Miami was knocked off 3-2 the prior round by the #8 seed Knicks, who had edged the Hornets by one game in the strike-shortened season to get in. Knicks swept the Hawks 4-0 (has another 8-seed ever swept anybody?), then went on to make history as an 8-seed getting to the NBA Finals (losing to the Spurs) after beating the Pacers in the Conference Finals.

2015... #1 seed in the East... but Thabo got tenderized, and a couple starters entered the playoffs dealing with recent injuries. Got by versus Joe's Nets and then Paul's and Wall's Wizards. But went full Elijah Price during the series against LeBron and Delly and got swept in the Conference Finals. Would've probably been bird feed anyway against the Warriors, who beat the Cavs.

Go back to St. Louis the year before they got here, 1968... franchise-record 56 wins, #1 seed in the West.... but the league had this playoff setup where #1 played #3 while #2 played #4. The 4-seed was the 29-53 Chicago Bulls, who only got in ahead of expansion teams in Seattle and San Diego and lost to the Lakers in 5 games. The 3-seed was Nate Thurmond's 43-39 San Francisco Warriors, who shocked the Hawks in Game 1 in St. Louis then held serve at home to prevail in six games. The playoff setup was changed to 1-versus-4 and 2-versus-3 in 1971. San Francisco got swept by the Lakers, who in turn lost in six games to the Celtics in the Finals.

~lw3

[Dejay]

49 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Another really would have to be the year of the infamous fourth quarter between Bird and Nique in the eighties. We had a 3-2 lead and were playing game six at home. Celtics won the last two and went on to win it all. 

Actually, they lost the very next round in the ECFs to the Pistons, where they went on to lose to the Lakers in 7. And please, I still try not to remember that Game 6 at the Omni where the Celtics were just looking for a soft place to lay down on the canvas and the Hawks couldn't put them away. That was probably the only time where my Dad and I went home with the radio off and not a word said between us; indeed, none was warranted. 

As for true contention, I absolutely agree with Thomas here. Even the 60-win team were swept away by the Cavs, including double-digit losses at home. They make the playoffs but haven't really been taken seriously since Nique's squad took the Celtics to the limit. Even a couple of years ago while we were thinking the impossible, many within the media didn't see it that way and were unfortunately proven right...

 

[Guest]

I thought our 1988 team had the best chance in game 6 of the 2nd round vs Boston. I wonder what our history would look like if we had won that day....sure, perhaps we don't get by a Pistons team that we handled 2 years before but if we did...it would have set up my dream finals scenario from when I was a kid...HAWKS VS LAKERS!!!

 

dang.

[Thomas]

11 minutes ago, Dejay said:

Actually, they lost the very next round in the ECFs to the Pistons, where they went on to lose to the Lakers in 7. And please, I still try not to remember that Game 6 at the Omni where the Celtics were just looking for a soft place to lay down on the canvas and the Hawks couldn't put them away. That was probably the only time where my Dad and I went home with the radio off and not a word said between us; indeed, none was warranted. 

Oops, sorry about that, think I have a mental block with that Detroit team, also sorry to refresh that memory of the ride home after the game. Still my favorite Hawk's playoff fourth quarter though, even with the loss. Just historic proportions with Nique and Bird at it and on it. Just one of those great battles to remember, uh, not the final score.

[Sothron]

The only time in my lifetime I felt the Hawks had a real chance of winning was the 1988 team and honestly if we had stayed healthy our 60 win team. That getting swept by Cleveland in the ECF is ugly but it doesn't take into account our injuries.

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Sothron said:

The only time in my lifetime I felt the Hawks had a real chance of winning was the 1988 team and honestly if we had stayed healthy our 60 win team. That getting swept by Cleveland in the ECF is ugly but it doesn't take into account our injuries.

Hey that's what I said Soth! Ask @Thomas if you don't believe me...childhood dream of HAWKS Lakers final crushed cuz we gave game 6...smh...I honestly think we woulda taken out the Pistons in 6 or 7.

[ISOJOE]

We had no shot 2 years ago. 

The problem is that you cannot win a PO series against LBJ if you don't have an elite rimprotector (the '16/17 Warriors could be the first exception but the combination of Green's and Durant's rimprotection skills is elite). 

2006: KG

2007: Duncan

2008: KG

2009: Howard

2010: KG

2011: Chandler

2014: Duncan

2015: Bogut

[macdaddy]

4 minutes ago, ISOJOE said:

We had no shot 2 years ago. 

The problem is that you cannot win a PO series against LBJ if you don't have an elite rimprotector (the '16/17 Warriors could be the first exception but the combination of Green's and Durant's rimprotection skills is elite). 

2006: KG

2007: Duncan

2008: KG

2009: Howard

2010: KG

2011: Chandler

2014: Duncan

2015: Bogut

Is Bogut an elite rim protector?

[ISOJOE]

He was in 2015

[Lurker]

I wouldn't say a great rim protector was needed, but there are, and continue to be very specific rules for what is needed going against a LBJ team and there was a lot I think this team missed from how it played in 2015.

Here are some of the rules, and it goes further than what I remember was written on RealGM:

1. You need to have a very good offense and BOTH the ability to move the ball around against a locked in defense and the ability to go one on one and get your own shot without help when it breaks down successfully.
2. You need to have more than one good defender to throw against LBJ. If you don't, it doesn't matter how good you played defense in the regular season.
3. More than one very good shooter that can easily be put on lockdown without extra help is needed.

This team didn't have half of 1, it didn't have 2 because of Thabo's injury and after one game had none of 2 because of Carroll getting hurt, and it didn't have 3.

And then you have Millsap playing hurt for the whole playoffs and Carroll getting hurt (as I said above).

Edited May 9, 2017 by Lurker

[ISOJOE]

Bogut 2014/15 Rim FG% Allowed: 41,5% 

 

That is elite.

[ISOJOE]

vor 5 Minuten, Lurker sagte:

I wouldn't say a great rim protector was needed.

But all the teams who beat him had one.

[Lurker]

Some of the tweaking that we saw beginning in 2015-2016 was an attempt to focus on doing a better job of correcting some of the issues the team had against Cleveland. We saw Millsap used more in 1v1 "need a basket" situations even then. But this attempt at tweaking and experimenting combined with Bazemore not being all that helpful offensively...ended in the offense that we used to see in 14/15 blasting out the window even with all starters.

Prince had his dumb moments himself, but I think if there is an alternate universe in which he is here last year, has developed a bit and is starting...the Hawks probably go 54-28 last year and the offense with starters is better.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Lurker

[Thomas]

2 hours ago, Sothron said:

That getting swept by Cleveland in the ECF is ugly but it doesn't take into account our injuries.

Do agree but also understand Isiah had gripes about not even being able to fit in a shoe properly in the finals against the Lakers and lost and then later on Magic was stiff as a board from an injury and they lost to Detroit in the finals. Who actually other than us old as dirt or hardcore fans remember that stuff. The media doesn't and the NBA doesn't want to so todays roundball fans sure as heck don't remember or care. If they remember at all they remember that we lost. By the way, I have not forgotten but its just that the NBA won't be bothered about it either way.

[BigDog90]

13 hours ago, NBASupes said:

The answer is clearly no. Our best team was broken up during MJ's first lockout. 

Other than that. The best team we have ever had was the 4 All Star squad a couple years ago. But that wasn't really a playoff type of squad for contending. 

So no. We have been a pretty just happy to be in the playoffs type of org. We aren't losers like the Clippers but we are probably the face of the threadmill. 

 

Now, St. Louis Hawks is a different story and was elite. But they had severe racism issues to the point they traded Bill Russell because he couldn't live in St. Louis. 

 

The Hawks never really have an A to A+ player. Nique was an A-, Horford was B+/A-, Sap, Deke, Hudson, Pistol Pete who didn't play up to his A level talent and Iso Joe were similar. But we never had a questionable HOF type of talent since Pettit for his time period of course. We had Blaylock and Smitty who were great B level players and we had some really good role players like Doc Rivers, Kevin Willis, Josh Smith and others in our franchise history in Atlanta. 

 

To be great, you either need two A+ players or one with two A to A- talents, three A talents, four B+ talents being great fits and that's about it. But Atlanta never had that and Atlanta never won.  

Oh wow I didn't know about the Russell thing.

[BigDog90]

4 hours ago, Lurker said:

I wouldn't say a great rim protector was needed, but there are, and continue to be very specific rules for what is needed going against a LBJ team and there was a lot I think this team missed from how it played in 2015.

Here are some of the rules, and it goes further than what I remember was written on RealGM:

1. You need to have a very good offense and BOTH the ability to move the ball around against a locked in defense and the ability to go one on one and get your own shot without help when it breaks down successfully.
2. You need to have more than one good defender to throw against LBJ. If you don't, it doesn't matter how good you played defense in the regular season.
3. More than one very good shooter that can easily be put on lockdown without extra help is needed.

This team didn't have half of 1, it didn't have 2 because of Thabo's injury and after one game had none of 2 because of Carroll getting hurt, and it didn't have 3.

And then you have Millsap playing hurt for the whole playoffs and Carroll getting hurt (as I said above).

You definitely need more than one starter besides the PG who can create their own shot. Dallas, GS, SA all had that.

[thecampster]

In 1994, the team was 36-16 (60 win pace) before trading Dominique Wilkins away. They went 20-10 without him (56-26 overall). There were a few reasons for the trade. The team started the season 1-4 before reeling off 14 straight wins and 23 of the next 26 (24-7 record overall). Over the next 21 games they were a pedestrian 12-9 including a 3-5 stretch right before the trade (mostly due to nagging injuries to key players). Team execs believed the league had figured them out and believed the team had a chemistry problem. The underlying reasons for the trade was Nique's age and he was earning a team leading 3.5 million per season (I know...you can laugh now). Dominique was scoring 25+ ppg for the year and was having one of his better defensive seasons (early in his career he was a bad defender) but had a weak couple of games during the 3-5 slump. Trading Nique was a pure and simple salary dump to get a younger player who put up big numbers in Phoenix's run and gun offense. 

Manning went on to score 15/game with the Hawks, never fit well with the team and was generally disliked by his teammates. The trade was the defining moment to a lost opportunity. It was their best chance at a title. They matched up favorably with Houston and Chicago that year, but the trade killed the team. Kevin Willis (the team's second leading scorer at 19/game and arguably its best all around player) was devastated.

Edited May 10, 2017 by thecampster