Moving up in the Draft from #19

[Guest]

How can we move from #19 for a pick in the #10 - 14? (I don't think we have enough to get higher without including Dennis, Prince or Bembry)

We have our own #19, #31 and #60 this draft, 2018 Minny 1st (protected 1-14) , Cavs 2019 first (protected 1-10), 2019 2nd from Wiz.

Teams in the 10-14 range:

10. Sacramento Kings:  Bazemore,  #19. Reason:  they need a 3&D player in the worse way......ssshhhhh - that's what we are selling Baze as (FAs won't sign there). Maybe snag Kosta Koufus by adding in #31.
11. Charlotte Hornets: Dwight, #19 and we take on Plumlee's $12 million contract. 
12. Detroit Pistons: This is a tough one. Would they want Baze at $16 in lieu of maxing KCP at $25.5? Doubtful, but they are already in tax hell and going nowhere.  
13. Denver Nuggets:  I  don't think Denver needs more youth so they might be willing to trade the pick. They have enough guards so they don't need Baze.  Millsap would really round out their team but they have the capspace to sign him outright.
14. Miami Heat: #19 and #60 and the Wiz 2019 2nd to move up 4 spots.

[KB21]

Really, the only players I would be willing to move up into this draft to get are Zach Collins and Laurie Markkanen. 

[NBASupes]

I am not really that hyped to move up in this draft. The potential at 19 is the same at 11. Maybe 1-10 has guys who are closer but I am not sold on it. 

 

Zach Collins has five traits I want in modern bigs but his value will skyrocket after workouts. I think he is a top 10 pick.

More athletic McHale. I really think he has Tom Chambers athletic ability. I know I am comparing him to white guys but there are some white guys he is really similar to

[thecampster]

13 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Really, the only players I would be willing to move up into this draft to get are Zach Collins and Laurie Markkanen. 

Markkanen is probably going around 8.  But let me take a look and I'll come up with a trade idea.

[NBASupes]

Just now, thecampster said:

Markkanen is probably going around 8.  But let me take a look and I'll come up with a trade idea.

Even with this. I don't like the idea of moving up.

[KB21]

Is there really a lot that separates Laurie Markkanen from Isaiah Hartenstein as far as skill level and long term ability?  I'm not 100% convinced that there is.  Markkanen is slightly more advanced as a pure shooter right now, but Hartenstein has the tools.   I'd rather take Hartenstein at 19 rather than some of these other guys with limited overall skill levels like Justin Patton, Ike Anigbogu, Jarrett Allen, and Bam Adebayo. 

[thecampster]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I am not really that hyped to move up in this draft. The potential at 19 is the same at 11. Maybe 1-10 has guys who are closer but I am not sold on it. 

 

Zach Collins has five traits I want in modern bigs but his value will skyrocket after workouts. I think he is a top 10 pick.

More athletic McHale. I really think he has Tom Chambers athletic ability. I know I am comparing him to white guys but there are some white guys he is really similar to

Collins is not NBA ready. He is far too small and is about 2-3 years away from being effective.

 

[thecampster]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Is there really a lot that separates Laurie Markkanen from Isaiah Hartenstein as far as skill level and long term ability?  I'm not 100% convinced that there is.  Markkanen is slightly more advanced as a pure shooter right now, but Hartenstein has the tools.   I'd rather take Hartenstein at 19 rather than some of these other guys with limited overall skill levels like Justin Patton, Ike Anigbogu, Jarrett Allen, and Bam Adebayo. 

2 different positions so hard to compare. Hartenstein is a bit stiff but a real solid center prospect. He can be a contributor early but will have to develop defensively against NBA competition. Expect a year or more of foul proneness and growing pains. He will be a starter in the NBA eventually, but probably not dominant. Markkanen though is a game changer. A true stretch 4 in the mold of Dirk, with real height and a smoothness around the rim while moving. He is a cover nightmare. Opposing 4's will be gassed in 1 quarter of chasing him around. A player who can post, roll, cut, pump fake, double move, pull up and spot up. He has a serious motor and is a natural 7 footer who will grow graciously into his body. Markkanen is a rotation guy day one due to a refined skill set and has a high ceiling as a projected starter year 2/3. He would fit amazing next to Prince. You just don't see his offensive skill-set in a 7 footer. The question is how to use him while developing him defensively inside (where he struggles).

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I am not really that hyped to move up in this draft. The potential at 19 is the same at 11. Maybe 1-10 has guys who are closer but I am not sold on it. 

 

Zach Collins has five traits I want in modern bigs but his value will skyrocket after workouts. I think he is a top 10 pick.

More athletic McHale. I really think he has Tom Chambers athletic ability. I know I am comparing him to white guys but there are some white guys he is really similar to

Finally, you got something right.  I don't see a need to move up in this draft unless we're talking top 3-5 (which we're not).

Congrats.  Enjoy this as I'm sure you're teeing up some asinine opinion to back it up with. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

How can we move from #19 for a pick in the #10 - 14? (I don't think we have enough to get higher without including Dennis, Prince or Bembry)

We have our own #19, #31 and #60 this draft, 2018 Minny 1st (protected 1-14) , Cavs 2019 first (protected 1-10), 2019 2nd from Wiz.

Teams in the 10-14 range:

10. Sacramento Kings:  Bazemore,  #19. Reason:  they need a 3&D player in the worse way......ssshhhhh - that's what we are selling Baze as (FAs won't sign there). Maybe snag Kosta Koufus by adding in #31.
11. Charlotte Hornets: Dwight, #19 and we take on Plumlee's $12 million contract. 
12. Detroit Pistons: This is a tough one. Would they want Baze at $16 in lieu of maxing KCP at $25.5? Doubtful, but they are already in tax hell and going nowhere.  
13. Denver Nuggets:  I  don't think Denver needs more youth so they might be willing to trade the pick. They have enough guards so they don't need Baze.  Millsap would really round out their team but they have the capspace to sign him outright.
14. Miami Heat: #19 and #60 and the Wiz 2019 2nd to move up 4 spots.

I love 10 and 11. Dealing with Sacramento could be ideal as they two picks in the top 10. If they took Baze I'd do it in a nano second.

 

Love the Hornets one as well. Give them Dwight and take on a bad contract but move up.

 

Id throw Minnesota in there as well. They don't need any more youth.im hoping Minny trades the pick for a solid vet so they can sneak into the playoffs next year and we get a high pick from them.

[NBASupes]

41 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Collins is not NBA ready. He is far too small and is about 2-3 years away from being effective.

 

He can play both 4 and 5. I think he is better than you are giving him credit for. I seriously think he can be a future all star.

[macdaddy]

If we are going to invest in Millsap it seems like we'd want to move our pick and some players for more solid vets or hopefully a starter at the 2.   

[h4wkfan]

I whole heartedly agree with kg and supe. I have 0 interest to move up to 10-14 range. And I also agree Zach will be a top 10 pick by draft night, and I have 0 interest in giving up enough to move that far in the draft. 

 

I think a more realistic trade up would be baze and 31 for 27 from Brooklyn which I would do in an instant. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, h4wkfan said:

I whole heartedly agree with kg and supe

That's something you may never see again lol.

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

That's something you may never see again lol.

I think he and I agree on the Swanigan kid.  I know, Spud2.  I'm scared too. 

Has he been hacked?  Shiii ... have I been hacked?!

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I think he and I agree on the Swanigan kid.  I know, Spud2.  I'm scared too. 

Has he been hacked?  Shiii ... have I been hacked?!

You were hacked. 

[h4wkfan]

I think I'm going to need some time to decompress from this.  bud style. You'll probably catch me on the 6 oclock news tonight  

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, h4wkfan said:

I think I'm going to need some time to decompress from this.  bud style. You'll probably catch me on the 6 oclock news tonight  

You mean the 10 o'clock news...Bud's not an alcoholic... comon....:-|

[Lurker]

I don't think moving up is really necessary. The only guys that I'd really want in a move up situation are Zach Collins and Donovan Mitchell***.

(***) Mitchell is all over the place on mocks so it'll be tough to pinpoint him.

At 19, there are a bunch of players that I've already named since about mid spring that I'm interested in that should be around that spot. I have already said that it is not likely that two of them are going to be ready. Hartenstein has an interesting game but if he were to play NOW, he's at best, an energy center that may or may not be able to stretch the floor from 3 (some think his shot mechanics are funky and won't translate at first, I've looked and think they're fine), when it's very possible he could provide more with a bit of extra development. And I've already talked about Patton's body and how he's going to need a "redshirt rookie" like year because he needs to put on more weight.

So if you're looking for guys that are ready right NOW with no issue, here are the 10 guys that I'd say are ready to play NOW, and some still would have upside. This is both the first round and 31st pick and this is actually realistic (not in any particular order):

1. Donovan Mitchell
2. John Collins
3. Ivan Rabb
4. Josh Hart
5. Sindarius Thornwell
6. Justin Jackson (UNC)
7. Johnathan Motley (with the caveat of the Baylor defensive zone scheme issue that is likely to make Bud keep him out of regular rotation mins for about half the season...although I heard on one of their tournament games that they have started to play more man to man)
8. Derrick White
9. Frank Mason III
10. Monte Morris

[thecampster]

Okay so I gave this some serious thought.  As far as assets go, we really don't have any that are "move up in the draft worthy and that we would part with except Bazemore.  But any trade involving Bazemore would involve taking back at least $11 million in salary from another team and as much as $21 million.  So first I lay out the assets of value for moving up.

Hawks 1st round picks in 2017 (19), 2018, 2019, 2020. Minny conditional pick in 2018, Cleveland conditional pick in 2019. Hawks 2nd round pick 2017 (31st overall).

Okay so why these picks.  Teams seeing a future rebuild would value any 1st round pick in the next 4 years. Teams seeing coming cap woes (ie high cap now + resigns coming) would value low 1st round picks to balance their salaries. Teams with immediate cap problems would value swapping troubling duplicate salaries and taking on Baze.

The first team that comes to mind is Detroit at 12. They have serious cap issues coming when they resign KCP. Before drafting they will be over the cap. I just don't see a package worth putting together.

Dallas at 9 is intriguing as Wesley Matthews struggled even more than Baze with his shot this year and Dallas will have very few committed players on their roster by F/A day. They will need salary + talent.  A trade of Baze, 19 and a future 1st (probably Minny's) could possible net you 9.

New York's pick can be had if you put a package together that rids them of Melo. They are desperate because of the suspension to start the season for Noah (as well). I just can't think of the package that doesn't involve both Dwight and Baze, taking back Melo, a few lesser players and swapping picks. It's risky.

Philly would take Baze (they'd love to have him) but it would probably take Baze, 19, and 2 future 1sts (one of ours + either Minny/Cleveland). This high it may cost us 31 this year as well. Philly does not need us to take back a player.

Lastly, Sacramento is in a similar boat to Philly with less room and less of a need for Baze.  They would want 19, 31 and 2 future 1sts for the 5th pick.