Going to the dark side

[Guest]

After a lot of thought, I'm going over to the dark side and joining those in favor of a complete rebuild and please hear me out before you let me have it.

 

The following reasons are why I've changed my mind and here they are:

 

1. We have no superstars. If we had a superstar or a star in his prime (sap no longer prime), I would say let's build. We have none and if history is any indication, we shouldn't bank on any coming here via free agency anytime soon.

2. We have a roster in which only 6 players are guaranteed to come back (Dwight, Dennis, Baze, Delaney, Prince and Bembry). From those, 2 were rookies last year and are very solid players (already a head start in the youth movement). Dwight and Baze are players that can't be relied on moving forward, so technically we could definitely try and use them as pawns for getting more picks or younger players or hold onto them until the deadline. But imo, its better to face your mistakes and correct the course rather than keep going down a wrong path.

3. We have a new GM in colonel Schlenk, who is known most for his ability to scout talent. Having been around greats like Don Nelson and Jerry West, you have to figure something rubbed off on the guy. Why not take advantage his ability to spot talent by giving him more weapons in terms of the draft. We already have 10 or 11 picks over the next 3 years so if he is indeed as good as indicated, he should be given the chance to show his stuff and find the right guys for Bud.

 

4. Our coach. Coach Bud can teach and coach players. We see what he did with DMC, Sap, Dennis, Prince. The guy excels at getting the best out of his players. I would love to see what he could do in grooming some young players from the very start, fresh out of college. 

 

5. Our past. I'll admit the biggest reason I never want to tank is because of what happened to us from 2000-2007. We absolutely stunk and I always think I never want to go back there again. But now that I think about it, I understand why it took us so long to rebuild, it's because we had an inept front office with Billy Knight and that ownership mess. There was a war within between 2 knuckleheads in Bruce Levenson and Knight. You cannot have internal team issues and a GM in Knight and expect it not to take that long. What I'm saying is our rebuild/retool would take no more than 3 years max, but we would build it the right way with Schlenk/Bud/Wilcox/Sund/Grant Hill.

 

6. Lastly, there are a couple of teams you may have heard about..the Cavs and the Warriors. They will be facing each other for the 3rd straight finals...and it may not end there. These teams have a couple more years left in them...2-4 more years...sadly, we can't beat them. It's the stupid NBA's own fault for allowing powerhouses and screwing over 28 other franchises but that's what they did and now we have to ride it out, prolly until the end of this decade. :-(

 

For those reasons, I have decided to go to the dark side. I forgot who is in the rebuild camp. I know @NBASupes is in there for sure...im in Supes! Gimme the dark side tour. :-)

 

@JayBirdHawk @kg01 @Thomas @turnermx @hazer I just wanna let you know that this was not an overnight decision. It's been building for a few weeks now. I just decided to come out publicly with it and I hope your criticism of me isn't too harsh. I just want the Hawks to get there...after 10 straight seasons of being eliminated from the playoffs, I'd like to roll the dice again. 

 

Just remember one thing, even though my stance of rebuilding has changed, I'm still the same ole Spud!

 

ps @hazer, I think you already had you toes dipped in the rebuild pool with that Jonathan Isaac proposal.

 

 

 

 

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, Spud2Nique said:

After a lot of thought, I'm going over to the dark side and joining those in favor of a complete rebuild and please hear me out before you let me have it.

 

The following reasons are why I've changed my mind and here they are:

 

1. We have no superstars. If we had a superstar or a star in his prime (sap no longer prime), I would say let's build. We have none and if history is any indication, we shouldn't bank on any coming here via free agency anytime soon.

2. We have a roster in which only 6 players are guaranteed to come back (Dwight, Dennis, Baze, Delaney, Prince and Bembry). From those, 2 were rookies last year and are very solid players (already a head start in the youth movement). Dwight and Baze are players that can't be relied on moving forward, so technically we could definitely try and use them as pawns for getting more picks or younger players or hold onto them until the deadline. But imo, its better to face your mistakes and correct the course rather than keep going down a wrong path.

3. We have a new GM in colonel Schlenk, who is known most for his ability to scout talent. Having been around greats like Don Nelson and Jerry West, you have to figure something rubbed off on the guy. Why not take advantage his ability to spot talent by giving him more weapons in terms of the draft. We already have 10 or 11 picks over the next 3 years so if he is indeed as good as indicated, he should be given the chance to show his stuff and find the right guys for Bud.

 

4. Our coach. Coach Bud can teach and coach players. We see what he did with DMC, Sap, Dennis, Prince. The guy excels at getting the best out of his players. I would love to see what he could do in grooming some young players from the very start, fresh out of college. 

 

5. Our past. I'll admit the biggest reason I never want to tank is because of what happened to us from 2000-2007. We absolutely stunk and I always think I never want to go back there again. But now that I think about it, I understand why it took us so long to rebuild, it's because we had an inept front office with Billy Knight and that ownership mess. There was a war within between 2 knuckleheads in Bruce Levenson and Knight. You cannot have internal team issues and a GM in Knight and expect it not to take that long. What I'm saying is our rebuild/retool would take no more than 3 years max, but we would build it the right way with Schlenk/Bud/Wilcox/Sund/Grant Hill.

 

6. Lastly, there are a couple of teams you may have heard about..the Cavs and the Warriors. They will be facing each other for the 3rd straight finals...and it may not end there. These teams have a couple more years left in them...2-4 more years...sadly, we can't beat them. It's the stupid NBA's own fault for allowing powerhouses and screwing over 28 other franchises but that's what they did and now we have to ride it out, prolly until the end of this decade. :-(

 

For those reasons, I have decided to go to the dark side. I forgot who is in the rebuild camp. I know @NBASupes is in there for sure...im in Supes! Gimme the dark side tour. :-)

 

@JayBirdHawk @kg01 @Thomas @turnermx @hazer I just wanna let you know that this was not an overnight decision. It's been building for a few weeks now. I just decided to come out publicly with it and I hope your criticism of me isn't too harsh. I just want the Hawks to get there...after 10 straight seasons of being eliminated from the playoffs, I'd like to roll the dice again. 

 

Just remember one thing, even though my stance of rebuilding has changed, I'm still the same ole Spud!

 

ps @hazer, I think you already had you toes dipped in the rebuild pool with that Jonathan Isaac proposal.

 

 

 

 

I will address the points I think need addressing only.

Item 2 - IMHO, you are building with Dennis, Prince and should be moving Baze and bringing back THj as at least a stop gap. Tim is coming back as long as the Hawks match and that involves finding a draft night buyer for Baze.

Addendum Item 2 - If you find that buyer for Baze, you no longer have a problem roster financially.  A full rebuild is not required.

Item 3 - Exactly how many more picks over 10 do you want?

Item 4 - I do not credit Bud for our player development. I believe that goes to Kenny Atkinson. Dennis will get better with maturity (remember how young he is) and an argument can be made that Bud hindered, not helped Prince.

Item 6 - The Warriors are about to have to make very tough decisions in signing players. They are a notoriously cheap franchise and resigning all their players would put them somewhere around 30 million over the cap. The Warriors are very due for a step back. The Cavaliers have only 9 players under contract for next year for $125 million. Lebron is going to start breaking down soon and they are going to have to do something with the roster or face significantly more in LT penalties than they have in previous years. It is no secret they lost money to win these championships. That cannot continue.

Other than that, I concede your reasoning....I just don't want to jump on the train right now.

[CP61]

[thecampster]

Here, take a look at Golden States roster situation and then proceed to wet yourself.  http://hoopshype.com/salaries/golden_state_warriors/

Short answer....Curry, Durant, Pachulia and 5 others need off season decisions made.

[Thomas]

 

4 hours ago, Spud2Nique said:

@JayBirdHawk @kg01 @Thomas @turnermx @hazer I just wanna let you know that this was not an overnight decision. It's been building for a few weeks now. I just decided to come out publicly with it and I hope your criticism of me isn't too harsh. I just want the Hawks to get there...after 10 straight seasons of being eliminated from the playoffs, I'd like to roll the dice again. Just remember one thing, even though my stance of rebuilding has changed, I'm still the same ole Spud!

Sometimes its just best to stay in the closet. Thats as snarky as I'm willing to get with you cat. 

[marco102]

4 hours ago, Spud2Nique said:

After a lot of thought, I'm going over to the dark side and joining those in favor of a complete rebuild and please hear me out before you let me have it.

 

The following reasons are why I've changed my mind and here they are:

 

1. We have no superstars. If we had a superstar or a star in his prime (sap no longer prime), I would say let's build. We have none and if history is any indication, we shouldn't bank on any coming here via free agency anytime soon.

2. We have a roster in which only 6 players are guaranteed to come back (Dwight, Dennis, Baze, Delaney, Prince and Bembry). From those, 2 were rookies last year and are very solid players (already a head start in the youth movement). Dwight and Baze are players that can't be relied on moving forward, so technically we could definitely try and use them as pawns for getting more picks or younger players or hold onto them until the deadline. But imo, its better to face your mistakes and correct the course rather than keep going down a wrong path.

3. We have a new GM in colonel Schlenk, who is known most for his ability to scout talent. Having been around greats like Don Nelson and Jerry West, you have to figure something rubbed off on the guy. Why not take advantage his ability to spot talent by giving him more weapons in terms of the draft. We already have 10 or 11 picks over the next 3 years so if he is indeed as good as indicated, he should be given the chance to show his stuff and find the right guys for Bud.

 

4. Our coach. Coach Bud can teach and coach players. We see what he did with DMC, Sap, Dennis, Prince. The guy excels at getting the best out of his players. I would love to see what he could do in grooming some young players from the very start, fresh out of college. 

 

5. Our past. I'll admit the biggest reason I never want to tank is because of what happened to us from 2000-2007. We absolutely stunk and I always think I never want to go back there again. But now that I think about it, I understand why it took us so long to rebuild, it's because we had an inept front office with Billy Knight and that ownership mess. There was a war within between 2 knuckleheads in Bruce Levenson and Knight. You cannot have internal team issues and a GM in Knight and expect it not to take that long. What I'm saying is our rebuild/retool would take no more than 3 years max, but we would build it the right way with Schlenk/Bud/Wilcox/Sund/Grant Hill.

 

6. Lastly, there are a couple of teams you may have heard about..the Cavs and the Warriors. They will be facing each other for the 3rd straight finals...and it may not end there. These teams have a couple more years left in them...2-4 more years...sadly, we can't beat them. It's the stupid NBA's own fault for allowing powerhouses and screwing over 28 other franchises but that's what they did and now we have to ride it out, prolly until the end of this decade. :-(

 

For those reasons, I have decided to go to the dark side. I forgot who is in the rebuild camp. I know @NBASupes is in there for sure...im in Supes! Gimme the dark side tour. :-)

 

@JayBirdHawk @kg01 @Thomas @turnermx @hazer I just wanna let you know that this was not an overnight decision. It's been building for a few weeks now. I just decided to come out publicly with it and I hope your criticism of me isn't too harsh. I just want the Hawks to get there...after 10 straight seasons of being eliminated from the playoffs, I'd like to roll the dice again. 

 

Just remember one thing, even though my stance of rebuilding has changed, I'm still the same ole Spud!

 

ps @hazer, I think you already had you toes dipped in the rebuild pool with that Jonathan Isaac proposal.

 

 

 

 

I'm glad you came out of the closet and are fully embracing your tank side .  I fully support you on this journey, well not really because I don't believe in tanking for some unicorn that you may never get.   

There are ways to go with a youth movement and still be very competetive.    What the Hawks may want to do is hope that Brembry or THjr keep improving to the point where a team is willing to give up a lottery pick for either one.   If Isaia comes over, we have 3 young shooting guards with some upside,  THjr (league average), Bembry (if his shot gets fixed will be a very good player on O and defense with playmaking ability), Isaia (who knows?)  

Bazemore is more of an asset than we give him credit for too. The problem with Baze is the Hawks tried to force him into a role in which he currently does not have the ability to perform.   Sacremento will probably be willing to give up one of their two top ten picks for him since they are severly lacking in defense.

 

Edited May 30, 2017 by marco102

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Sometimes its just best to stay in the closet. Thats as snarky as I'm willing to get with you cat. 

Ah, booooooo.  Jump in with both feet, Thom.

@Spud2Nique don't worry.  We supported your other life choices.  When you brought that billy goat to the HS meet-up and introduced it as your 'date', none of us rejected you.  We celebrated your 'love' for that animal and accepted you both.

We're not going to turn our backs on you now that you've lost all good sense and decided to side with the tankettes.  The 'dark side'?  Who are you darth .. va....  *gag* ....

Ha, just kidding.  You don't have the 'force', Spud2.  Spud2, stop it .. got out of the BART station, dude ...

[LamarHampton]

Y'all just put this on pause for a bit, once Spud stops menstruating he will come to his senses and stop being such a downer.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, LamarHampton said:

Y'all just put this on pause for a bit, once Spud stops menstruating he will come to his senses and stop being such a downer.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The big secret is this:

I AM THE SUPERSTAR!

Like Bruce Leroy in The Last Dragon, I just had to find my inner "Soul Glow".  

 

 

People have doubted me.  Coach Bud has tried to humble me.  Fake gangsta basketball players have tried to punk me.  But now I truly know.  It is MY TIME.  

When people ask "Who's the master" in Atlanta.  I can now confidently say . . . 

I AM!

Build around ME.  Put the right players around ME, so my superstardom can truly come to the surface for all to see and to make my team and teammates better.

I have always had "The Glow".  

 

 

 

Ride with me ATLANTA.

[Thomas]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The big secret is this:

I AM THE SUPERSTAR!

Like Bruce Leroy in The Last Dragon, I just had to find my inner "Soul Glow".  

 

 

People have doubted me.  Coach Bud has tried to humble me.  Fake gangsta basketball players have tried to punk me.  But now I truly know.  It is MY TIME.  

When people ask "Who's the master" in Atlanta.  I can now confidently say . . . 

I AM!

Build around ME.  Put the right players around ME, so my superstardom can truly come to the surface for all to see and to make my team and teammates better.

I have always had "The Glow".  

 

 

 

Ride with me ATLANTA.

Sho'nuff.

[macdaddy]

As @marco102 said there's a difference between tanking and just going with a youth movement and rebuilding.     So are you in favor of deliberately setting the team up to lose as many games as possible?   Or just not having older expensive vets on the roster?

 

[Bankingitbig]

This whole tanking/rebuild discussion is misplaced to me. Rebuilding/tanking would have been trading Millsap, Horford, Korver along with Teague last year prior to the deadline or at least trading Millsap in the offseason without signing Howard & Baze. We didn't do that. We sat on our hands and now have some awful decisions in front of us. Choosing to let Millsap walk, to me, is making the smarter of the awful decisions. We can try and trade Howard/Baze, but I don't think we will get much of a return for them that would be classified as a rebuild.

Going with the young guys (Schröder, Prince and possibly THJ if the $ is reasonable) is just a smart decision to me given the paths we have in front of us. I don't see it as a rebuild, but rather as the best path forward that we have given the circumstances. I also don't think Bud will ever tank, nor will Schröder.

I guess I just don't understand. When people say they are opposed to "rebuilding", does that mean they want us to sign Millsap to a 5-year deal north of $30M/year?

Edited May 30, 2017 by Bankingitbig

[macdaddy]

Tanking vs rebuilding.  That's the issue.  Tanking by definition is losing deliberately by filling the roster with inexperienced and/or bad players.   Is anyone really in favor of that?   I'm good with rebuilding but I do think we have some options.   

First, Resseler is in no mood to tank.  You can tell that.   

Second, he wants bigtime players.   That's why we got Dwight and why he's been talking about personally signing Sap.   These are guys that Resseller and the average fan at least recognize.

But we all know that this is a pretty dumb way to go about building a team and thank goodness we finally have a gm to right the ship.

 

[Guest]

People are under the illusion that we can jettison parts and net lotto picks in return.  That's why so many want to tankbuild.  They don't seem to realize that, in order to jettison vets, we'll likely have to attach 1sts to entice folks to take them.  We'll also likely have to take back bad salaries such as Deng's deal.  Yay, tankbuild?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

As @marco102 said there's a difference between tanking and just going with a youth movement and rebuilding.     So are you in favor of deliberately setting the team up to lose as many games as possible?   Or just not having older expensive vets on the roster?

 

Let me clarify my stance...

 

NO TANKING. I just don't think it's possible to tank with Bud. I'm just asking for a youth movement where we use gap stop type guys while grooming younger guys...

 

I want us to compete like hell with a roster full of young scrappy guys like Orlando did with Doc Rivers in the late 90's early 2000's.

 

Again, I don't think we purposely tank I just think we can retool without signing high priced vets.

 

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, thecampster said:

Here, take a look at Golden States roster situation and then proceed to wet yourself.  http://hoopshype.com/salaries/golden_state_warriors/

Short answer....Curry, Durant, Pachulia and 5 others need off season decisions made.

You are crazy if you think the Warriors can't and won't sign Durant and Curry. It's almost a forgone conclusion.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, LamarHampton said:

Y'all just put this on pause for a bit, once Spud stops menstruating he will come to his senses and stop being such a downer.

Lmmfao...WHAT MALES DONT HAVE CYCLES???? Lol.

 

To quote uncle Elroy from Next Friday...We could get high and never come down. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

Let me clarify my stance...

 

NO TANKING. I just don't think it's possible to tank with Bud. I'm just asking for a youth movement where we use gap stop type guys while grooming younger guys...

I want us to compete like hell with a roster full of young scrappy guys like Orlando did with Doc Rivers in the late 90's early 2000's.

Again, I don't think we purposely tank I just think we can retool without signing high priced vets.

What the?  Have you been hacked?

You realize they had TMac and the ghost of Grant Hill, right?

You need to go back to the drawing board, Spud2.  Work out what you really want in life.

And, just so you know, when most of us saw the thread title, we assumed it meant you were gonna start dating black dudes.  

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

What the?  Have you been hacked?

You realize they had TMac and the ghost of Grant Hill, right?

You need to go back to the drawing board, Spud2.  Work out what you really want in life.

And, just so you know, when most of us saw the thread title, we assumed it meant you were gonna start dating black dudes.  

Wtfffff...ummm...nzinga..

 

ps...no Tmac or Hill I'm talking that magical .500 season they had with a roster full of journeymen...yes Ben Wallace but younger and unproven.

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2000.html