League sources: Paul Millsap will have at least 3 teams (SAC, DEN, and MIN) offering him a max contract

[Admin]

12 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

We are not tanking guys...tanking involves gettiby rid of all of you good players...repeat after me...we are not tanking..we are not tanking.   Millsap is not Lebron...Millsap is not Lebron

Assuming that this wasn't meant to be sarcasm, I fully agree with you. With or without Millsap, we aren't tanking. Had we traded our picks for future picks or for draft and stash players AND let Millsap go plus trading Howard for crap then I'd agree we are tanking. 

I genuinely believe that our strategy is to try and make our assets more valuable by measure of shorter / better contracts and hopefully by drafting better. We're not going to buy our way to a championship, it will have to be done with smart drafting, getting value on free agents and then being ready to make big moves when they're available to be made. 

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

Assuming that this wasn't meant to be sarcasm, I fully agree with you. With or without Millsap, we aren't tanking. Had we traded our picks for future picks or for draft and stash players AND let Millsap go plus trading Howard for crap then I'd agree we are tanking. 

I genuinely believe that our strategy is to try and make our assets more valuable by measure of shorter / better contracts and hopefully by drafting better. We're not going to buy our way to a championship, it will have to be done with smart drafting, getting value on free agents and then being ready to make big moves when they're available to be made. 

The smart thing to do as a GM is to sign players to bargain contracts. Similar to Millsap's 1st contract. And when your players like Millsap become overvalued, repeat the process while stocking you team with youth and potential.

[KB21]

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

The smart thing to do as a GM is to sign players to bargain contracts. Similar to Millsap's 1st contract. And when your players like Millsap become overvalued, repeat the process while stocking you team with youth and potential.

.....while maintaining a competitive, winning culture.

[Peoriabird]

Just now, KB21 said:

.....while maintaining a competitive, winning culture.

Now this takes a great coach and GM to find the undervalued player like Quinn does for the Falcons. I don't think Bud has that eye but maybe our new GM does.

[Flight]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

You base it off the fact that the lottery does very little to actually improve a team unless you are lucky enough to land that top pick in a year where there is a true superstar talent available.  You are much more likely to get an Anthony Bennett than a Kevin Durant.

That also doesn't take into account the fact that the talent that has been getting taken at the top of the draft recently are all unseasoned talents who don't know how to play the game the right way.  The Lakers have already traded D'Angelo Russell for a much lower return than what they spent to get him.  They still have Julius Randle, who isn't even a quality rotational player at this point. 

Heck, recent #1 overall draft pick Andrew Wiggins was just discussed in a FiveThirtyEight article as being the worst defensive player in the NBA.  https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-nba-haters-ball/ 

This is what you guys want to tank for, and you wonder why tanking doesn't work?

 

Something tells me a 22 year old Wiggins with the additional mentoring of Jimmy Butler is bound to improve on defense.

[AHF]

34 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The only one that may push for a playoff spot this year is Minnesota, and that's because they finally got smart and traded that lottery pick for an established player.

That is a very real use of lottery picks.  NBA Champion Boston Celtics did that dealing a chunk of lottery picks and young highly drafted players for KG and Allen.  NBA Champion Cleveland Cavs did that with dealing the #1 for Kevin Love.

Impress me by telling me which championship team did it with the #19 pick?  (You'll have to tell me because I don't know.)

[AHF]

24 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

The smart thing to do as a GM is to sign players to bargain contracts. Similar to Millsap's 1st contract. And when your players like Millsap become overvalued, repeat the process while stocking you team with youth and potential.

 

15 minutes ago, KB21 said:

.....while maintaining a competitive, winning culture.

Which NBA champions other than the Lakers and the exception to every rule Wallace era Pistons did this without previously dipping into the 20 win range to draft their cornerstone?

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

That is a very real use of lottery picks.  NBA Champion Boston Celtics did that dealing a chunk of lottery picks and young highly drafted players for KG and Allen.  NBA Champion Cleveland Cavs did that with dealing the #1 for Kevin Love.

Impress me by telling me which championship team did it with the #19 pick?  (You'll have to tell me because I don't know.)

Impress me by telling me which NBA teams won a championship within 4 years of picking #1 in the draft without the benefit of signing a hometown sentiment guy.

[CP61]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Impress me by telling me which NBA teams won a championship within 4 years of picking #1 in the draft without the benefit of signing a hometown sentiment guy.

You aren't thinking big picture if 4 years is too much for you. In 4 years I think we can be a playoff team again though.

[Sothron]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

That is a very real use of lottery picks.  NBA Champion Boston Celtics did that dealing a chunk of lottery picks and young highly drafted players for KG and Allen.  NBA Champion Cleveland Cavs did that with dealing the #1 for Kevin Love.

Impress me by telling me which championship team did it with the #19 pick?  (You'll have to tell me because I don't know.)

Trust me, they have no answers other than clinging to the classic "I DON'T WANNA GO BACK INTO THE LOTTERY MOMMY!" defense.

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Impress me by telling me which NBA teams won a championship within 4 years of picking #1 in the draft without the benefit of signing a hometown sentiment guy.

I've already told you that virtually every champ did it by winning 20 some games and drafting their foundational player.  If your goal is to win a championship in the very near term and you aren't willing to wait for a guy like Hakeem Olajuwon to get there then I think you'll find virtually every team fails that measure.  Cornerstone players usually take many more years of marinating before they win you a ring - kind of like if Dennis was that guy you might see it 3 years from now.

To answer your question, though:

The San Antonio Spurs with #1 Tim Duncan

The LA Lakers with #1 Magic Johnson

The LA Lakers with #1 James Worthy

Plenty more to add if you go beyond the #1 overall pick including the Hawks' championship won with #2 overall Bob Pettit in his 3rd season.  I see this as an artificial gaming of the question since I don't claim that you need the #1 overall pick to get a generational talent.  (See Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Bill Russell, etc.)

[KB21]

8 minutes ago, CP61 said:

You aren't thinking big picture if 4 years is too much for you. In 4 years I think we can be a playoff team again though.

Even that is highly unlikely.   If we rebuild, it is a guaranteed 5-7 years of losing based on the talent pool the team has to choose from. 

Too add, during that 5-7 year period, you will see at least 1 coaching change and probably a management change as well.  Travis Schlenk will not survive a 5-7 year rebuild, and Bud definitely won't.  So, the losing breeds instability within the organization that contributes to the continuation of being on the lottery treadmill of losing.

Edited June 28, 2017 by KB21

[Admin]

41 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

The smart thing to do as a GM is to sign players to bargain contracts. Similar to Millsap's 1st contract. And when your players like Millsap become overvalued, repeat the process while stocking you team with youth and potential.

Would have been nice to have Millsap on his contract with a team option for an additional year or two. Don't know if that's still legal under the new CBA but I would gladly pick up team options for the next 2 years on Millsap at this years salary if I could. 

[AHF]

Just now, Dolfan23 said:

Would have been nice to have Millsap on his contract with a team option for an additional year or two. Don't know if that's still legal under the new CBA but I would gladly pick up team options for the next 2 years on Millsap at this years salary if I could. 

I think that is precisely why he didn't sign a longer deal.

[CP61]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Even that is highly unlikely.   If we rebuild, it is a guaranteed 5-7 years of losing based on the talent pool the team has to choose from. 

Too add, during that 5-7 year period, you will see at least 1 coaching change and probably a management change as well.  Travis Schlenk will not survive a 5-7 year rebuild, and Bud definitely won't.  So, the losing breeds instability within the organization that contributes to the continuation of being on the lottery treadmill of losing.

Not if Schlenk was hired with that plan of rebuilding in mind. And we obviously differ in philosophies. I'd rather be on a treadmill in the lottery than outside of it. At least then we have a chance to get the golden child who will lead us to a championship. Now it's just so blah. I like to watch the Hawks, but I know it's all pointless in the end. At least if I watched the Hawks go young and lose, it would be for a purpose.

[KB21]

Here's the lottery treadmill:

1.  Team takes a player in the lottery

2.  Lottery player ends up playing more minutes than his production justifies and said player is a below average player.

3.  Playing below average player means return to trip to lottery in next season.

4.  Team takes player in the lottery

5.  Lottery player ends up playing more minutes than his production justifies and said player is a below average player.  Previous lottery player is still below average. 

6.  Playing below average players extended minutes means return trip to lottery.

7.  Team takes player in the lottery.........etc

Repeat, rinse. 

When you get to about year 5 of this, the first lottery player you drafted is now finally an average player, but he's tired of losing and signs free agent deal elsewhere.  "The Process" then starts again.

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, CP61 said:

Not if Schlenk was hired with that plan of rebuilding in mind. And we obviously differ in philosophies. I'd rather be on a treadmill in the lottery than outside of it. At least then we have a chance to get the golden child who will lead us to a championship. Now it's just so blah. I like to watch the Hawks, but I know it's all pointless in the end. At least if I watched the Hawks go young and lose, it would be for a purpose.

You really think Tony Ressler, after lets say 4 years of losing and declining season ticket sales, is going to keep Schlenk around whether they discussed rebuilding when he was hired or not?

[AHF]

KB's worst case scenario post above is a very real potential outcome of dropping into the lottery because picking the right player in the draft is tough.  There are no certainties.  Some teams go into the lottery and emerge strong pretty quickly.  Some take a long time to emerge.  When they emerge some come out as contenders and other come out as playoff pretenders. Some stay in there for over a decade with bad team after bad team.  

What happens depends on the quality of your management and luck (who is on the board, who is available in the draft, etc.).  I'll freely acknowledge that.  I just won't agree that noone who drops into the 20's in wins will ever be any good since that describes basically every champion.

[Sothron]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Here's the lottery treadmill:

1.  Team takes a player in the lottery

2.  Lottery player ends up playing more minutes than his production justifies and said player is a below average player.

3.  Playing below average player means return to trip to lottery in next season.

4.  Team takes player in the lottery

5.  Lottery player ends up playing more minutes than his production justifies and said player is a below average player.  Previous lottery player is still below average. 

6.  Playing below average players extended minutes means return trip to lottery.

7.  Team takes player in the lottery.........etc

Repeat, rinse. 

When you get to about year 5 of this, the first lottery player you drafted is now finally an average player, but he's tired of losing and signs free agent deal elsewhere.  "The Process" then starts again.

This is so wrong it just hurts. Every lottery player is just like this? Every one? Just like if we go into the lottery we are stuck there for 5-7 years as a "guarantee" too eh?

 

[Peoriabird]

8 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

Would have been nice to have Millsap on his contract with a team option for an additional year or two. Don't know if that's still legal under the new CBA but I would gladly pick up team options for the next 2 years on Millsap at this years salary if I could. 

Its time to move on from Sap and find the next bargan...let someone else destroy their team's salary structure by signing players to over inflated salaries. This is what separates the great GM's from the rest.