Premium Member Diesel Posted January 25, 2018 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Atlanta trades Bazemore, Belinelli, and Collins. Atlanta gets Love and Clevelands first in 2019 draft. Here's the story. Cleveland needs to get rid of IT but Love will take the fall. Cleveland needs solid play at the forward positions and Collins and Baze give them that. They are also in position to move forward without Lebron. Atlanta gets Love. He's much better than he has looked. With the slew of draft picks that we will be getting, Love and Dennis could lead this team back to prominence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4wkfan Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 In the middle of a rebuild, you want to trade off one of our most promising young players just to lose in the first round of the playoffs again? Easy pass for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member aali34 Posted January 25, 2018 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted January 25, 2018 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 3 hours ago, h4wkfan said: In the middle of a rebuild, you want to trade off one of our most promising young players just to lose in the first round of the playoffs again? Easy pass for me. Love is allstar material. What is this rebuild to come to for you?? gathering up Young guys to watch them leave? Look.. I don't know if any of the players on the team today will be on the team when we finally get to where we want to go. What I do know is that if we don't show any of these guys that we want to win something, they will leave. To me, it seems like the fanbase is more interested in hosting draft lottery parties than they are for holding championship parades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted January 25, 2018 Moderators Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 22 minutes ago, Diesel said: To me, it seems like the fanbase is more interested in hosting draft lottery parties than they are for holding championship parades. In fairness, the quote above very directly says he thinks acquiring Love would make us into a non-contender, fringe playoff team. Pretty sure in his mind he sees acquiring Love as an obstacle to holding a championship parade rather than a step towards one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted January 26, 2018 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 8 hours ago, AHF said: In fairness, the quote above very directly says he thinks acquiring Love would make us into a non-contender, fringe playoff team. Pretty sure in his mind he sees acquiring Love as an obstacle to holding a championship parade rather than a step towards one. Seems like this will be the treadmill. We have all this picks for what? A young team? You know and I know that young teams don't do anything but get a lot of people fired and traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted January 26, 2018 Moderators Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, Diesel said: Seems like this will be the treadmill. We have all this picks for what? A young team? You know and I know that young teams don't do anything but get a lot of people fired and traded. Like Golden State has done? You have to draft some core talent and then you add your Iggy type vets. You need to move into your win now phase when you have your MVP talent and more as your core. Adding vet talent to Philly makes sense now. It didn't after they drafted their lottery pick and definitely not before they drafted their first high lottery pick. That is my view. Too early to hit the "win now" switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted January 26, 2018 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 8 hours ago, AHF said: Like Golden State has done? You have to draft some core talent and then you add your Iggy type vets. You need to move into your win now phase when you have your MVP talent and more as your core. Adding vet talent to Philly makes sense now. It didn't after they drafted their lottery pick and definitely not before they drafted their first high lottery pick. That is my view. Too early to hit the "win now" switch. First off, GS is the outlier. However, even in looking at how they did it, it doesn't happen without trades and vet pickups. What you are suggesting is the Charlotte Way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted January 26, 2018 Moderators Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 4 hours ago, Diesel said: First off, GS is the outlier. However, even in looking at how they did it, it doesn't happen without trades and vet pickups. What you are suggesting is the Charlotte Way. Not sure what you are talking about D. Who is the MVP player on Charlotte's roster? I see a lot of vets and only one fringe maybe All-Star they have drafted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted January 26, 2018 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 50 minutes ago, AHF said: Not sure what you are talking about D. Who is the MVP player on Charlotte's roster? I see a lot of vets and only one fringe maybe All-Star they have drafted. Consider them as a team over the last 10 years. Quote 2008 1 9 D. J. Augustin United States Point guard Texas 2008 1 20 Alexis Ajinça (from Denver)[p] France Center Hyères-Toulon (France) 2008 2 38 Kyle Weaver (traded to Oklahoma City)[q] United States Point guard Washington State 2009 1 12 Gerald Henderson United States Shooting guard Duke 2009 2 40 Derrick Brown (from New Jersey via Oklahoma City)[q] United States Power forward Xavier 2009 2 54 Robert Vaden (from San Antonio,[r] traded to Oklahoma City) United States Shooting guard UAB 2011 1 9 Kemba Walker United States Point guard Connecticut 2011 1 19 Tobias Harris (from New Orleans via Portland,[t] traded to Milwaukee) United States Small forward Tennessee 2011 2 39 Jeremy Tyler (traded to Golden State)[v] United States Center Tokyo Apache (Japan) 2012 1 2 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist United States Small forward Kentucky 2012 2 31 Jeffery Taylor Sweden Small forward Vanderbilt 2013 1 4 Cody Zeller United States Power forward/Center Indiana 2014 1 9 Noah Vonleh (from Detroit)[w] United States Power forward Indiana 2014 1 24 Shabazz Napier (from Portland,[t] traded to Miami)[x] United States Point guard Connecticut 2014 2 45 Dwight Powell (traded to Cleveland)[y] Canada Power forward Stanford 2015 1 9 Frank Kaminsky United States Power forward/Center Wisconsin 2015 2 39 Juan Pablo Vaulet (traded to Brooklyn)[z] Argentina Small forward Estudiantes de Bahía Blanca (Argentina) 2016 1 22 Malachi Richardson (traded to Sacramento)[aa] United States Shooting guard Syracuse 2017 1 11 Malik Monk United States Shooting guard Kentucky 2017 2 31 Frank Jackson (from Brooklyn via Atlanta,[ab] traded to New Orleans)[ac] United States Point guard Duke Over the last 10 years, Charlotte has been a young team adding young players picked in the lottery to their young team. And have gone nowhere. It's only now.. that they have decided to go after some vets. This is the route that's I'm talking about. I mean, look at how many times that they've been to the lottery: 9th pick , 12th pick, 9th pick, 4th pick, 2nd pick, 9th pick, 9th pick, 11th pick. In all those times (Until this year) they never reached out for a difference making or somebody with allstar potential. They expected that their young players would Mature. However, it never did. I mean, Kemba matured.... But that's it. Everybody else is either gone or at the same place they were when they came in. That's the road you're looking down. But I know... I know... "we're not going to make bad picks like they did". I'm sure that they said the same thing. Hell, I'm sure that we said the same thing when all of our lottery visited netted us Al Horford while missing CP3, Iguadala, and roy. Charlotte road is more likely than Golden State Road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted January 26, 2018 Moderators Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Diesel said: Consider them as a team over the last 10 years. Over the last 10 years, Charlotte has been a young team adding young players picked in the lottery to their young team. And have gone nowhere. It's only now.. that they have decided to go after some vets. This is the route that's I'm talking about. I mean, look at how many times that they've been to the lottery: 9th pick , 12th pick, 9th pick, 4th pick, 2nd pick, 9th pick, 9th pick, 11th pick. In all those times (Until this year) they never reached out for a difference making or somebody with allstar potential. They expected that their young players would Mature. However, it never did. I mean, Kemba matured.... But that's it. Everybody else is either gone or at the same place they were when they came in. That's the road you're looking down. But I know... I know... "we're not going to make bad picks like they did". I'm sure that they said the same thing. Hell, I'm sure that we said the same thing when all of our lottery visited netted us Al Horford while missing CP3, Iguadala, and roy. Charlotte road is more likely than Golden State Road. They made bad picks a lot of the time and aren't that young. The minutes weighted age of their team this year is 26.6 years old so their average player is a veteran in their prime. Same the last two years before that (over 26). The minute weighted average age of the Celtics this season is 24.5. The Hornets have been cheap since MJ took over for the most part but went big for a potential All-Star in Batum. Bad drafting combined with subpar free agents will get you pretty much where they have been - fringe playoff / lottery land. We will absolutely repeat that if we can't draft worth a darn. It isn't like bad management going for free agents does great either, though. We will absolutely repeat the abject failure of the Knicks if we repeat their free agency / trade mistakes. No approach overcomes bad management but part of bad management is failing to realize that you can't go in on free agency unless you have a core of talent, future assets or you are getting an MVP caliber star to build around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted January 26, 2018 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 5 minutes ago, AHF said: They made bad picks a lot of the time and aren't that young. The minutes weighted age of their team this year is 26.5 years old so their average player is a veteran in their prime. Same the last two years before that (over 26). They have been cheap since MJ took over for the most part but went big for a potential All-Star in Batum. Bad drafting combined with subpar free agents will get you pretty much where they have been - fringe playoff / lottery land. We will absolutely repeat that if we can't draft worth a darn. It isn't like bad management going for free agents does great either, though. We will absolutely repeat the abject failure of the Knicks if we repeat their free agency / trade mistakes. No approach overcomes bad management but part of bad management is failing to realize that you can't go in on free agency unless you have a core of talent, future assets or you are getting an MVP caliber star to build around. No doubt. A lot depends on the calls being made. However, what I'm saying is that now we have a slew of picks. A lot of them. IF a star player is offered who has at least 2 years on his contract, then we'd look foolish not considering him in lieu of the young players. I still haven't seen many examples of a Young team winning anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted January 26, 2018 Moderators Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 Just now, Diesel said: No doubt. A lot depends on the calls being made. However, what I'm saying is that now we have a slew of picks. A lot of them. IF a star player is offered who has at least 2 years on his contract, then we'd look foolish not considering him in lieu of the young players. I still haven't seen many examples of a Young team winning anything. I'm all up for it if the guy can be the #1 or #2 on a championship team ala Kevin Durant or Steph Curry. I'm not at all sold on a guy like Kevin Love who could prevent us from drafting a difference maker while he himself hasn't been much of a difference maker as far as Ws and Ls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 On 1/25/2018 at 5:04 AM, Diesel said: Atlanta trades Bazemore, Belinelli, and Collins. Atlanta gets Love and Clevelands first in 2019 draft. Here's the story. Cleveland needs to get rid of IT but Love will take the fall. Cleveland needs solid play at the forward positions and Collins and Baze give them that. They are also in position to move forward without Lebron. Atlanta gets Love. He's much better than he has looked. With the slew of draft picks that we will be getting, Love and Dennis could lead this team back to prominence. 4 days later, and a trade for Love would be an EXCELLENT idea for Atlanta. With him being out 6 - 8 weeks due to a broken hand, any team that trades for him can essentially shut him down for the year. I wouldn't give up Collins in the deal, but I would give up Dedmon. Baze + Dedmon + Belinelli + Hawks 2nd rd pick . . . for Love + Derrick Rose The Cavs could use every single one of those guys coming off the bench, with either Baze or Dedmon being a starter. If Rose wants to be bought out, buy his butt out. That would be an easy release. This is the time for the Hawks to get creative and STRIKE!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS5 Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 7 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said: Baze + Dedmon + Belinelli + Hawks 2nd rd pick . . . for Love + Derrick Rose Why are we giving up the pick in this deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted January 31, 2018 Moderators Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 10 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said: 4 days later, and a trade for Love would be an EXCELLENT idea for Atlanta. With him being out 6 - 8 weeks due to a broken hand, any team that trades for him can essentially shut him down for the year. I wouldn't give up Collins in the deal, but I would give up Dedmon. Baze + Dedmon + Belinelli + Hawks 2nd rd pick . . . for Love + Derrick Rose The Cavs could use every single one of those guys coming off the bench, with either Baze or Dedmon being a starter. If Rose wants to be bought out, buy his butt out. That would be an easy release. This is the time for the Hawks to get creative and STRIKE!! Could be an intriguing team next year with a starting lineup something like: Dennis Doncic Prince Love Collins Rose would be a definite cut. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frosgrim Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 11 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said: 4 days later, and a trade for Love would be an EXCELLENT idea for Atlanta. With him being out 6 - 8 weeks due to a broken hand, any team that trades for him can essentially shut him down for the year. I wouldn't give up Collins in the deal, but I would give up Dedmon. Baze + Dedmon + Belinelli + Hawks 2nd rd pick . . . for Love + Derrick Rose The Cavs could use every single one of those guys coming off the bench, with either Baze or Dedmon being a starter. If Rose wants to be bought out, buy his butt out. That would be an easy release. This is the time for the Hawks to get creative and STRIKE!! I was thinking the same thing. I wouldn't give the pick, in fact, give us a 2 for the hassle of bringing in Rose :) I agree you don't give Collins away, but Dedmon would actually be a "big" help to Cleveland. Overall, great trade idea! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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