The Tank Thread

[KB21]

Just now, davis171 said:

You just realize there was no way to get this team to a top 5 seed in the east this year even spending crazy amounts of money.

I don't really care if we weren't a top 5 seed this year.  I just know that with him, we aren't the dumpster fire this current team is.  The Hawks getting in as the 8th seed is much better than the Hawks being the damn doormat of the league.

[davis171]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I don't really care if we weren't a top 5 seed this year.  I just know that with him, we aren't the dumpster fire this current team is.  The Hawks getting in as the 8th seed is much better than the Hawks being the damn doormat of the league.

Not when the MAYBE 8 seed looses the city money. We came out negative after making the playoffs last year with less money on books. so why keep that core together when clearly no one wanted to see Paul decline.

Edited February 28, 2018 by davis171

[KB21]

Beautiful!  It would have been great if John Collins could have picked up Paul Millsap's ability to play in the mid post.  

[KB21]

Look at that.  Paul with the help side blocked shot.  Such a great defensive player.  We have a young power forward that needs to learn how to play defense.  

[davis171]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Look at that.  Paul with the help side blocked shot.  Such a great defensive player.  We have a young power forward that needs to learn how to play defense.  

You have no answer to what you would have done to improve the team from last year with letting THJ walk. Owners aren't going to pay a dude 30 million to mentor someone especially when the team lost money the year before. 

[KB21]

12 minutes ago, davis171 said:

You have no answer to what you would have done to improve the team from last year with letting THJ walk. Owners aren't going to pay a dude 30 million to mentor someone especially when the team lost money the year before. 

I'm busy watching Paul Millsap play basketball tonight.  You know, the guy you want to disrespect and kick to the curb.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, davis171 said:

yes 107 million on 11 players even if we sign vets on minimums would put us around 115 million 26 million over the cap. Even with our roster last year and making the playoffs the hawks lost money so why pay 26 million over the cap when the team even lost money last season. http://www.businessinsider.com/nba-teams-losing-money-revenue-sharing-2017-9 and if you want to compete you needed Hardaway Jr back so at that 115 number maybe we are the 8th seed but more likely around 10th

Ummm . . . no.

20 teams are currently over the cap.   14 teams are currently over the 115 million threshold.

115 million puts us at 13th - 15th in the league in payroll.

Salary cap for this season was 99 million . . . so it's 16 million over the cap for this season, not 26 million.   

 

Hmmm . . the Hawks lost money last year, despite only having a payroll of 95 million.  And you ask . . "so why pay 26 million ( really 16 million ) over the cap when the team lost money".

So here's a question.  Should the Hawks wait until they're good, or turning a profit, to spend money?  What's the use of being under the cap, if you're not going to spend the money?  Or spend the money on All-Star caliber players?

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Ummm . . . no.

20 teams are currently over the cap.   14 teams are currently over the 115 million threshold.

115 million puts us at 13th - 15th in the league in payroll.

Salary cap for this season was 99 million . . . so it's 16 million over the cap for this season, not 26 million.   

 

Hmmm . . the Hawks lost money last year, despite only having a payroll of 95 million.  And you ask . . "so why pay 26 million ( really 16 million ) over the cap when the team lost money".

So here's a question.  Should the Hawks wait until they're good, or turning a profit, to spend money?  What's the use of being under the cap, if you're not going to spend the money?  Or spend the money on All-Star caliber players?

The idea that the Hawks lost money is the definition of cooking the books as well, particularly since they saw a major increase in their revenue and the value of the franchise went over $1 billion.  

[KB21]

Nokola Jokic is so good.  Best player from the 2014 draft.  Drafted with the 41st overall pick.

[davis171]

7 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Ummm . . . no.

20 teams are currently over the cap.   14 teams are currently over the 115 million threshold.

115 million puts us at 13th - 15th in the league in payroll.

Salary cap for this season was 99 million . . . so it's 16 million over the cap for this season, not 26 million.   

 

Hmmm . . the Hawks lost money last year, despite only having a payroll of 95 million.  And you ask . . "so why pay 26 million ( really 16 million ) over the cap when the team lost money".

So here's a question.  Should the Hawks wait until they're good, or turning a profit, to spend money?  What's the use of being under the cap, if you're not going to spend the money?  Or spend the money on All-Star caliber players?

What all-Star caliber player Paul didn't make an all star appearance. Maybe he makes the all star team in the east but you think that Millsap alone at 33 is making this team a truly competitive team? Yes If I'm an NBA owner I'm not paying extra to be mediocre if I don't see a future if thats the question. Kemba is an all star they are trying to win and look at them.

Edited February 28, 2018 by davis171

[davis171]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Nokola Jokic is so good.  Best player from the 2014 draft.  Drafted with the 41st overall pick.

Where were the 2 best players in the NBA drafted (1 & 2) thank you.

[KB21]

24 minutes ago, davis171 said:

Where were the 2 best players in the NBA drafted (1 & 2) thank you.

If your goal is to draft a LeBron James or a Kevin Durant, then you are going to be in the lottery for a LONG TIME.

[davis171]

53 minutes ago, KB21 said:

If your goal is to draft a LeBron James or a Kevin Durant, then you are going to be in the lottery for a LONG TIME.

Okay I said I'm in for a rebuild because I didn't see a path to sustainable success down the road. What do we do hypothetically when Paul is 35 after fighting for the 8 seed after spending our draft capital fighting with aging vets because you have said trade Tuaren and our picks. Fall off with no draft picks?

[Diesel]

8 hours ago, CBAreject said:

It is possible to draft better than Billy Knight did.  He wasn’t just a victim of circumstance—he was genuinely bad at his job. 

This is the problem with most Hawks fans.. especially those on the tank train.   They believe that because we got a new GM that our drafts will be better.  They fail to realize that it's a much stronger possibility that they won't.   We don't even have players who we are targetting with this tank pick.  This draft itself might be a bust.  But No Hawks fan believe that anybody aside for Knight and Babcock can mess up a pick?  I mean, it could not be said around these parts that Bebe, Dennis or Payne could be bust.  Look at them now.   They've gotten us farther from a championship than Shelden did.  

Here's the problem in Atlanta. 

We think that high draft picks automatically means star and we believe that the Players that we pick will be stars.   That's why we put these No trade barriers on Dennis and Prince.   We miss trades that could help us..  and on top of everything else, with a straight face, we believe that it's better for our team to lose than to win.  Forget about a winning culture... yet we don't understand why Vet FAs who are good don't want to come here.   People, young players (even stars) don't win nothing.   Kyrie Irving would never have gotten into the ring conversation without Lebron and Love coming to Cleveland.    And Love would have continued to die that same death in Minny had he not been traded.  Lillard is a bonafide beast and his team won't make it out of the first round. 

Here are the youngest teams in the League:

Quote

Atlanta	25.63
Charlotte	25.63
Memphis	25.47
Portland	25.19
Toronto	25.13
Brooklyn	25
L.A. Lakers	24.83
Boston	24.82
Chicago	24.82
Indiana	24.75
Philadelphia	24.69
Phoenix	24.12

 

Only Boston, Toronto, Portland  and Philly in that list has a chance to do anything this year. Because those are your playoff teams.

By contrast, here are your top 5 oldest teams:

Quote

Golden State	28.12
San Antonio	28.06
Cleveland	28
Houston	27.81
Washington	26.93

 I don't think that there's much to say here. 

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Oh . . . and I have a 3rd team that did it without tanking, while being a middling team without a superstar ( although they haven't officially "done it" yet )

 

Houston Rockets ( mid 2010s )

[Lurker]

5 hours ago, davis171 said:

Okay I said I'm in for a rebuild because I didn't see a path to sustainable success down the road. What do we do hypothetically when Paul is 35 after fighting for the 8 seed after spending our draft capital fighting with aging vets because you have said trade Tuaren and our picks. Fall off with no draft picks?

The funny thing is this sounds familiar. Brooklyn is the cautionary tale with this and then while Dallas didn't trade their draft picks recently, they had that slow downward trend this guy says is impossible. Pretty soon, Memphis is also going to prove my point that slow downward trends even if a tank is unplanned will happen. Reality says...this is Planet Earth, not Heaven, and it's going to happen even if you don't want it to unless you're planning strategically for it if you become old (I'm not meaning an older team, I'm meaning a team in which all of the main parts of the core are mid 30s and higher).

And in most cases, outside of San Antonio we haven't seen that.

There is no extremist side that is correct in any argument, from politics to sports. I ultimately may decide I don't like tanking but I'm going to continue arguing here as I HATE extremist arguments in points. 

[Watchman]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

The funny thing is this sounds familiar. Brooklyn is the cautionary tale with this and then while Dallas didn't trade their draft picks recently, they had that slow downward trend this guy says is impossible. Pretty soon, Memphis is also going to prove my point that slow downward trends even if a tank is unplanned will happen. Reality says...this is Planet Earth, not Heaven, and it's going to happen even if you don't want it to unless you're planning strategically for it if you become old (I'm not meaning an older team, I'm meaning a team in which all of the main parts of the core are mid 30s and higher).

And in most cases, outside of San Antonio we haven't seen that.

There is no extremist side that is correct in any argument, from politics to sports. I ultimately may decide I don't like tanking but I'm going to continue arguing here as I HATE extremist arguments in points. 

I dunno.  HATE sounds pretty extremist to me.  

[AHF]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Oh . . . and I have a 3rd team that did it without tanking, while being a middling team without a superstar ( although they haven't officially "done it" yet )

 

Houston Rockets ( mid 2010s )

So still just the Pistons then.  (And they traded two lottery picks to get their engine, Harden).

[AHF]

17 hours ago, AHF said:

Here is your roster as you start to look at trades - you are presently over the cap.

 

Roster Spots		Salary
1	Dwight Howard	$23,500,000
2	Paul Millsap	$31,269,231
3	Kent Bazemore	$16,910,113
4	Ersan Ilyasova	$6,000,000
5	John Collins	$1,936,920
6	Tyler Dorsey	$815,615
7	Dennis Schröder	$15,500,000
8	Malcolm Delaney	$2,500,000
9	Taurean Waller-Prince	$2,422,560
10	DeAndre' Bembry	$1,567,200
11	Mike Muscala	$5,000,000
12
13
14
15
	Total:	$107,421,639

 

What is the hypothetical next move?

@Diesel, @TheNorthCydeRises

Do you match on THJr and what is your next move this offseason?

@KB21

Your next move is still on the clock.

[KB21]

8 hours ago, davis171 said:

Okay I said I'm in for a rebuild because I didn't see a path to sustainable success down the road. What do we do hypothetically when Paul is 35 after fighting for the 8 seed after spending our draft capital fighting with aging vets because you have said trade Tuaren and our picks. Fall off with no draft picks?

When Paul is 35, his contract will be up, and John Collins will be ready to step into that spot.