It’s official Bud is gone ....but for nothing in return

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Ok, let me rephrase...instead of "cheap" just insert the words "wasteful, counterproductive, foolish and stupid" then.

You realize that the objective is to get a young core and they are willing to spend to make it happen and then the young core will allow them to add expensive vets, right?  The fact that they are spending money on dead deals to get additional picks shows they are willing to spend on what they believe it takes to improve the team.

Spending on vets now is counter to that plan because if we spent money and won like the Charlotte Hornets did we would not be in position to add young talent like they are trying to do.  Reality is that the type of vets you get in FA when you are positioned like we were at the end of the last season is not an impact vet.  They are at best good not great. 

Whether the plan works or not, there is a simple explanation for why they aren't adding high dollar productive vets during the same season in which they want to get a top lottery pick.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

You realize that the objective is to get a young core and they are willing to spend to make it happen and then the young core will allow them to add expensive vets, right?  The fact that they are spending money on dead deals to get additional picks shows they are willing to spend on what they believe it takes to improve the team.

Spending on vets now is counter to that plan because if we spent money and won like the Charlotte Hornets did we would not be in position to add young talent like they are trying to do.  Reality is that the type of vets you get in FA when you are positioned like we were at the end of the last season is not an impact vet.  They are at best good not great. 

Whether the plan works or not, there is a simple explanation for why they aren't adding high dollar productive vets during the same season in which they want to get a top lottery pick.

Yeah, and that simple explanation is that they are stupid.

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Unless I'm mistaken Bud won't get paid by us if he gets hired as a NBA HC again with two years left on his contract.

We'll have to see the details but the quote from Shultz suggests that the contract he gets from another team is a simple offset.  So if he signs a two year deal for $3M/year the Hawks would be on the hook for $14M - $6M = $8M.  

I am a little stunned that they gave Bud this parting gift.  I would have told him he needed to take a haircut if he wanted to get released.  Otherwise, we'd be moving him to special consultant for the next two years and bringing in a new coach if that is the way we wanted to go.

I wouldn't be cruel to the guy but why should he get paid a premium and coach somewhere else?  I'd offer to rip the contract up (presumably they did that and he insisted on his full money) or demand a haircut to let him go.  I am sure they were concerned about not setting a bad predecent of mistreating their coach as they are about to try to hire a new one but there is a middle road where he should have to give something up if he wants his freedom.

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yeah, and that simple explanation is that they are stupid.

Says the guy who sees no value in the Sixers roster and thinks they won't make the playoffs this year.  I'm pretty sure Philly fans aren't wishing they had held onto Thaddeus Young so they could win a few more games and get the 10th pick instead of drafting Embiid.

[HawkItus]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

We'll have to see the details but the quote from Shultz suggests that the contract he gets from another team is a simple offset.  So if he signs a two year deal for $3M/year the Hawks would be on the hook for $14M - $6M = $8M.  

I am a little stunned that they gave Bud this parting gift.  I would have told him he needed to take a haircut if he wanted to get released.  Otherwise, we'd be moving him to special consultant for the next two years and bringing in a new coach if that is the way we wanted to go.

I wouldn't be cruel to the guy but why should he get paid a premium and coach somewhere else?  I'd offer to rip the contract up (presumably they did that and he insisted on his full money) or demand a haircut to let him go.  I am sure they were concerned about not setting a bad predecent of mistreating their coach as they are about to try to hire a new one but there is a middle road where he should have to give something up if he wants his freedom.

Says the guy who sees no value in the Sixers roster and thinks they won't make the playoffs this year.

I think the mistake was in letting him interview.   They should have worked on compensation/buyout terms with each team before granting the individual interviews.  This would have curtailed the media damage that I think hastened this Bud friendly departure.

[Watchman]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

You realize that the objective is to get a young core and they are willing to spend to make it happen and then the young core will allow them to add expensive vets, right?  The fact that they are spending money on dead deals to get additional picks shows they are willing to spend on what they believe it takes to improve the team.

Spending on vets now is counter to that plan because if we spent money and won like the Charlotte Hornets did we would not be in position to add young talent like they are trying to do.  Reality is that the type of vets you get in FA when you are positioned like we were at the end of the last season is not an impact vet.  They are at best good not great. 

Whether the plan works or not, there is a simple explanation for why they aren't adding high dollar productive vets during the same season in which they want to get a top lottery pick.

Ok.  Please explain the buyouts of Ilyasova and Belinelli.  We are paying these guys to play on a playoff team.  If we were going to pay out the funds anyway, then let them have a mysterious injury like Schröder and Bazemore, and don't feed someone else's playoff drive.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, HawkItus said:

I think the mistake was in letting him interview.   They should have worked on compensation/buyout terms with each team before granting the individual interviews.  This would have curtailed the media damage that I think hastened this Bud friendly departure.

Maybe.  Definitely could have negotiated with Bud before letting him interview.  (I.e., at a minimum you give up $2M/year above what they offer if they won't sign you for more than $5M per year).

[KB21]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

We'll have to see the details but the quote from Shultz suggests that the contract he gets from another team is a simple offset.  So if he signs a two year deal for $3M/year the Hawks would be on the hook for $14M - $6M = $8M.  

I am a little stunned that they gave Bud this parting gift.  I would have told him he needed to take a haircut if he wanted to get released.  Otherwise, we'd be moving him to special consultant for the next two years and bringing in a new coach if that is the way we wanted to go.

I wouldn't be cruel to the guy but why should he get paid a premium and coach somewhere else?  I'd offer to rip the contract up (presumably they did that and he insisted on his full money) or demand a haircut to let him go.  I am sure they were concerned about not setting a bad predecent of mistreating their coach as they are about to try to hire a new one but there is a middle road where he should have to give something up if he wants his freedom.

Says the guy who sees no value in the Sixers roster and thinks they won't make the playoffs this year.  I'm pretty sure Philly fans aren't wishing they had held onto Thaddeus Young so they could win a few more games and get the 10th pick instead of drafting Embiid.

Yeah, well then Philly fans are stupid too.

[Watchman]

6 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

I think the mistake was in letting him interview.   They should have worked on compensation/buyout terms with each team before granting the individual interviews.  This would have curtailed the media damage that I think hastened this Bud friendly departure.

Now Phoenix can pursue Bud with no concerns about compensating the Hawks.  Somebody check Slinky for under the table payments.

[JSmooooove]

Just now, KB21 said:

Yeah, well then Philly fans are stupid too.

And some people thought they wouldn't even make the playoffs and then when they did said they'd get easily beat by the Heat. What would you call that person?

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Ok.  Please explain the buyouts of Ilyasova and Belinelli.  We are paying these guys to play on a playoff team.  If we were going to pay out the funds anyway, then let them have a mysterious injury like Schröder and Bazemore, and don't feed someone else's playoff drive.

Every win cost us a spot in the lottery draft.  If we won 3 more games, we would have fallen into a tie for 7th place with a possibility to pick as low as 10th.

So they tried to trade them and nobody wanted to give value.  Then the question becomes whether you hold those players and risk the additional wins or just cut your losses.  The team did the latter.  

Very simple math.  The same reason that teams like Memphis shut players down prematurely for the season.

[Watchman]

Just now, AHF said:

Every win cost us a spot in the lottery draft.  If we won 3 more games, we would have fallen into a tie for 7th place with a possibility to pick as low as 10th.

So they tried to trade them and nobody wanted to give value.  Then the question becomes whether you hold those players and risk the additional wins or just cut your losses.  The team did the latter.  

Very simple math.  The same reason that teams like Memphis shut players down prematurely for the season.

Which is why I recommended that they come down with some mysterious injuries, ala Schröder and Bazemore.

[AHF]

Just now, Watchman said:

Which is why I recommended that they come down with some mysterious injuries, ala Schröder and Bazemore.

Why bother if they are UFA at the end of the year?  I would have cut bait.  I wouldn't want to court a fight with the player's union for a guy who wouldn't be returning to the team the following season regardless.  Just wish them the best and move on.

[Watchman]

Just now, AHF said:

Why bother if they are UFA at the end of the year?  I would have cut bait.  I wouldn't want to court a fight with the player's union for a guy who wouldn't be returning to the team the following season regardless.  Just wish them the best and move on.

I would suggest that Bazemore and Schröder engage the player's union also.  They're as good as gone also.  Slinky is on to his Bud purge.

[JTB]

1 hour ago, Flight said:

Man I definitely understand where you're coming from but keeping someone around that doesn't want to be there is bad for the morale and culture of your team going forward. So sure we'd get our money's worth but its also detrimental to the team's future. 

True ...I’m an ass when it comes to these things but it’s probably why I’m not in management either.

If I were the owner I wouldn’t let players or coaches f*** me over .

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Watchman said:

I would suggest that Bazemore and Schröder engage the player's union also.  They're as good as gone also.  Slinky is on to his Bud purge.

They didn't for obvious reasons.  They are on the payroll for next year.  That is very different from shutting down an impending free agent.  No matter what team Dennis or Baze are on, they will get paid the same next year.  Ilya and other impending FAs make their next deal based on their play.

[Buzzard]

The drama of DUI Bud will end soon enough for most of us. We need to hire our new coach, make our picks and possible trades, then all of us will get back to rooting for our team again.

Maybe Bud is the greatest thing since instant grits; but even the greatest current active coach of all time, Pops, had enough sense to put his ego aside for one season so they could draft Tim Duncan.

Bud is spilt milk, I am moving on from this thread and this topic.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Buzzard

[jy23]

Peace and blessings

[hazer]

54 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Who gives a crap about having a barber shop and a golf simulator in a basketball arena?  As far as the luxury tax remark goes, I'll believe it when I see it.  Saying something and doing something are not the same.

I don’t give a flip about either. Point being he’s spending money, not being “cheap.”

[Buzzard]

50 minutes ago, AHF said:

We'll have to see the details but the quote from Shultz suggests that the contract he gets from another team is a simple offset.  So if he signs a two year deal for $3M/year the Hawks would be on the hook for $14M - $6M = $8M.  

I am a little stunned that they gave Bud this parting gift.  I would have told him he needed to take a haircut if he wanted to get released.  Otherwise, we'd be moving him to special consultant for the next two years and bringing in a new coach if that is the way we wanted to go.

I think the biggest reason we cut bait sooner than later is all these potential candidates interviewing. If all we wanted to do was promote someone on the cheap, we could have forced Bud's hand a lot longer. Schlenk obviously has some coaches in mind and he at least wants a shot at interviewing them before they are signed elsewhere.

DUI Bud is going to get paid regardless. Our next coach very possibly will not be available indefinitely.

[TheFuzz]

I loved Bud. But there's other good coaches out there. More than Bud specifically I would just like some damn stability and solid voices. Here's to hoping Schlenk and co. can be good for us for a long while.