I’m concerned we TANKED too late

[Flight]

Lol, y'all are something else. How are we gauging that we tanked too late when as of now we really have no results to go off of? We haven't even went through our first draft yet. Y'all gotta calm down lol

[hazer]

15 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Hate to burst that bubble about Schlenk selecting Collins....most of the credit goes to BudCox, Asst. GM Peters, the existing scouting department and minority owner Mit Shah.....who as a Wake Forest alum asked Bud and Co. to check him out....waaaay before Schlenk was hired. And as Schlenk so aptly put it, he was scouting players for a late GSW pick so he relied on the existing hawks scouts and front office reports.

 

Schlenk may not have found him, but he still had to want him and be wise enough to actually make the pick since it was up to him. Although it did fall into his lap, he was wiser than GMs #9-#18 on that front. 

[hazer]

Just now, hazer said:

Schlenk may not have found him, but he still had to want him and be wise enough to actually make the pick since it was up to him. Although it did fall into his lap, he was wiser than GMs #9-#18 on that front. 

Had he PASSED on Collins like the 10 or so dumbass GMs ahead of him who did so, then I’d be questioning his draft judgement.

[KB21]

Just now, hazer said:

Schlenk may not have found him, but he still had to want him and be wise enough to actually make the pick since it was up to him. Although it did fall into his lap, he was wiser than GMs #9-#18 on that front. 

To me, Dennis Lindsey (from the San Antonio tree) deserves to get the most credit, as he got the best player in the draft with the 13th pick.  I also like how Dennis built the Jazz without bottoming out for several years.  It's really a novel concept that you guys should look into, because the Jazz are living proof of why you do not have to suck for several years like the Hawks are about to do during a rebuild.

[EazyRoc]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

To me, Dennis Lindsey (from the San Antonio tree) deserves to get the most credit, as he got the best player in the draft with the 13th pick.  I also like how Dennis built the Jazz without bottoming out for several years.  It's really a novel concept that you guys should look into, because the Jazz are living proof of why you do not have to suck for several years like the Hawks are about to do during a rebuild.

We haven’t had a player of Goberts caliber at any point in the last 5 years or so. Let’s not forget the SEVERAL years they were really really bad before they were good.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, EazyRoc said:

We haven’t had a player of Goberts caliber at any point in the last 5 years or so. Let’s not forget the SEVERAL years they were really really bad before they were good.

Where did they draft Gobert?  Oh, yeah.  27th pick.

[EazyRoc]

Just now, KB21 said:

Where did they draft Gobert?  Oh, yeah.  27th pick.

You can’t have it both ways KB. It took several years for Gobert to develop into the player he is. A late round draft pick would’ve taken too long to develop into anything that could’ve helped us pre-tank.

[KB21]

13 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

You can’t have it both ways KB. It took several years for Gobert to develop into the player he is. A late round draft pick would’ve taken too long to develop into anything that could’ve helped us pre-tank.

So, tell me.  When did Utah have multiple sub 25 win seasons to "bump up their talent level"?

What's funny is that the only season they were bad (25 wins in 13-14), they ended up with Dante Exum in the draft.  

[Flight]

38 minutes ago, KB21 said:

To me, Dennis Lindsey (from the San Antonio tree) deserves to get the most credit, as he got the best player in the draft with the 13th pick.  I also like how Dennis built the Jazz without bottoming out for several years.  It's really a novel concept that you guys should look into, because the Jazz are living proof of why you do not have to suck for several years like the Hawks are about to do during a rebuild.

This is funny cause it makes it seem like you'd be happy if we were in the Jazz's position, but they are just like what we were for years. A solid team of players that play above their expectations but lack the star power to win a championship in the near future.

[kg01]

9 minutes ago, Flight said:

This is funny cause it makes it seem like you'd be happy if we were in the Jazz's position, but they are just like what we were for years. A solid team of players that play above their expectations but lack the star power to win a championship in the near future.

That's an interesting point.  I didn't want us to tank but I understand why we did.  And, now that we're here, shiiiii .... why whine about it.

I like the Jazz team, how the play, etc.  I like that they're not a team that bottom'd out and all that.  That said, we can't be prisoners of the moment.  Let's not forget, them dudes were well under .500 much of the season.  To their credit, they've put it all together at the right time.

Prospects for the future?  They're basically the west-Hawks with a slightly higher ceiling due to Mitchell's potential for greatness.  Then again, he could simply be their JoeJohn.  A guy destined to keep making all-star teams but having that 2nd round ceiling in the playoffs.

We don't know right now.  We certainly don't know enough to hold them as the shining 'don't-tank' example.

[JTB]

2 hours ago, Flight said:

Lol, y'all are something else. How are we gauging that we tanked too late when as of now we really have no results to go off of? We haven't even went through our first draft yet. Y'all gotta calm down lol

Again I stated that we “tanked too late” in terms of looking at the very good young teams created now (76ers, Celtics, Bucks, Raptors)..all 4 of these teams have very good young players and each team has a good chance to take over the east as this LeBron era ends.

schlenk says we will be championship ready in 5 years (or close to it) and If that’s the case he’s overly confident that he’s not only going to hit on every draft pick we have over these next years but also assemble a better team than the good young teams that we are already seeing! Lol

So I don’t think I’m jumping overboard when you look at the young teams in the east that are good right now...9 times out of 10 these teams 76ers, Celtics, Bucks (not so much raptors) will get even better in 5 years.

 

can you really believe we are going to see a team assembled better than these young good east teams in 5 years?...it’s possible but it’s not very common.

[Flight]

2 minutes ago, JTB said:

Again I stated that we “tanked too late” in terms of looking at the very good young teams created now (76ers, Celtics, Bucks, Raptors)..all 4 of these teams have very good young players and each team has a good chance to take over the east as this LeBron era ends.

schlenk says we will be championship ready in 5 years (or close to it) and If that’s the case he’s overly confident that he’s not only going to hit on every draft pick we have over these next years but also assemble a better team than the good young teams that we are already seeing! Lol

So I don’t think I’m jumping overboard when you look at the young teams in the east that are good right now...9 times out of 10 these teams 76ers, Celtics, Bucks (not so much raptors) will get even better in 5 years.

 

can you really believe we are going to see a team assembled better than these young good east teams in 5 years?...it’s possible but it’s not very common.

As of right now none of those teams have accomplished anything. They just have potential, after a few lottery picks we'll have potential too, just got to choose the right players. Tanking earlier could have easily had us in the same position as the Magic, Kings or Suns as well. There's no guarantee where we'd be if we tanked earlier.

[JTB]

12 minutes ago, Flight said:

As of right now none of those teams have accomplished anything. They just have potential, after a few lottery picks we'll have potential too, just got to choose the right players. Tanking earlier could have easily had us in the same position as the Magic, Kings or Suns as well. There's no guarantee where we'd be if we tanked earlier.

Well I disagree to a certain extent ...none of these young teams have accomplished a championship yet but they have accomplished a lot this season to be young and furthermore it’s very rare to see extremely young teams win championships anyways. 

-Celtics have achieved finding 2 young future all star players after their all star summer pickups went down. That’s huge! Celtics has a very high chance of having a 5 all star lineup once Kyrie and Hayward returns. Not to mention they have a top 5 coach who’s young in brad Stevens and probably the best gm in the league in Ainge.

-76ers have a legit two star combo that’s highly established already in their first season together actually being on the floor for the majority of the year. If fultz lives up to the number 1 pick hype they will be even better. 

-Bucks have the players just need a better coach. I can see Giannis continuing as a all star player and Middleton will soon join him if he continues to have seasons like he did this year (Middleton is severely underrated)

- Raptors are playoff chokers but they are still young enough to continue to dominate the regular season.

 

maybe we shouldn’t have tanked earlier but I’m not trying to be negative when I say I don’t see how we are in a great position to live up to competing with these teams in 5 years when some of these guys will be entering the real prime ages .

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, JTB said:

Well I disagree to a certain extent ...none of these young teams have accomplished a championship yet but they have accomplished a lot this season to be young and furthermore it’s very rare to see extremely young teams win championships anyways. 

-Celtics have achieved finding 2 young future all star players after their all star summer pickups went down. That’s huge! Celtics has a very high chance of having a 5 all star lineup once Kyrie and Hayward returns. Not to mention they have a top 5 coach who’s young in brad Stevens and probably the best gm in the league in Ainge.

-76ers have a legit two star combo that’s highly established already in their first season together actually being on the floor for the majority of the year. If fultz lives up to the number 1 pick hype they will be even better. 

-Bucks have the players just need a better coach. I can see Giannis continuing as a all star player and Middleton will soon join him if he continues to have seasons like he did this year (Middleton is severely underrated)

- Raptors are playoff chokers but they are still young enough to continue to dominate the regular season.

 

maybe we shouldn’t have tanked earlier but I’m not trying to be negative when I say I don’t see how we are in a great position to live up to competing with these teams in 5 years when some of these guys will be entering the real prime ages .

The Hawks WON'T be in a position to compete with those teams because they CHOSE to tank, and I'm still not impressed with what Philly has despite their years upon years of losing.

[EazyRoc]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

So, tell me.  When did Utah have multiple sub 25 win seasons to "bump up their talent level"?

What's funny is that the only season they were bad (25 wins in 13-14), they ended up with Dante Exum in the draft.  

You are right. I remembered them being worse than they actually were. 

[Flight]

24 minutes ago, JTB said:

Well I disagree to a certain extent ...none of these young teams have accomplished a championship yet but they have accomplished a lot this season to be young and furthermore it’s very rare to see extremely young teams win championships anyways. 

-Celtics have achieved finding 2 young future all star players after their all star summer pickups went down. That’s huge! Celtics has a very high chance of having a 5 all star lineup once Kyrie and Hayward returns. Not to mention they have a top 5 coach who’s young in brad Stevens and probably the best gm in the league in Ainge.

-76ers have a legit two star combo that’s highly established already in their first season together actually being on the floor for the majority of the year. If fultz lives up to the number 1 pick hype they will be even better. 

-Bucks have the players just need a better coach. I can see Giannis continuing as a all star player and Middleton will soon join him if he continues to have seasons like he did this year (Middleton is severely underrated)

- Raptors are playoff chokers but they are still young enough to continue to dominate the regular season.

 

maybe we shouldn’t have tanked earlier but I’m not trying to be negative when I say I don’t see how we are in a great position to live up to competing with these teams in 5 years when some of these guys will be entering the real prime ages .

 

The Celtics didn't get what they have through tanking though. That was literally just off the terrible decision making of the Nets at the time. Outside of that they just got signings off their history and a good coaching choice.

The 76ers do have 2 really good young building blocks, but look at all the went through to get them.

The Bucks took a lot of down seasons but realistically Giannis is the only star player they got out of them.

Raptors aren't even a young team if we're being honest, and their window isn't that wide either.

 

I don't think any of their situations are really out of reach. 76ers definitely got a special situation but have numerous bad picks to show from it as well.

[JTB]

1 hour ago, Flight said:

 

The Celtics didn't get what they have through tanking though. That was literally just off the terrible decision making of the Nets at the time. Outside of that they just got signings off their history and a good coaching choice.

The 76ers do have 2 really good young building blocks, but look at all the went through to get them.

The Bucks took a lot of down seasons but realistically Giannis is the only star player they got out of them.

Raptors aren't even a young team if we're being honest, and their window isn't that wide either.

 

I don't think any of their situations are really out of reach. 76ers definitely got a special situation but have numerous bad picks to show from it as well.

So you think it’s possible for schlenk to back up his words and have us as finals contenders within or in 5 years?

Edited May 3, 2018 by JTB

[KB21]

36 minutes ago, JTB said:

So you think it’s possible for schlenk to back up his words and have us as finals contenders within or in 5 years?

I don't even think he will have this team back to the playoffs in 5 years.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Flight said:

 

The Celtics didn't get what they have through tanking though. That was literally just off the terrible decision making of the Nets at the time. Outside of that they just got signings off their history and a good coaching choice.

Depends how you define tanking.  They took a playoff team and threw it in the garbage for future assets and stunk it up by design with 20 some wins.  Then they started building back towards the playoffs with the knowledge that they had years of high value picks coming without the need to trash the team any further.

If Boston had held onto KG and PP for another year or two and then started rebuilding that would be like the Hawks.  If the Hawks had traded Horford and Sap at peak times for their trade value then that would be like Boston.  Both teams absolutely let go of their guys and stunk it up by design for one season.

If we stink it up by design next season, that will be the first year of deliberate losing beyond the short tanking the Celtics very clearly did.

[Flight]

57 minutes ago, JTB said:

So you think it’s possible for schlenk to back up his words and have us as finals contenders within or in 5 years?

Possible? Yes. Literally any team is one big off-season of moves away from playoff contention.