I’m concerned we TANKED too late

[noble]

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Define superstar first.

For this let's say a player who finishes top 10 in the MVP race. And if you want to refine it from there, a player who can do it more than once.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, noble said:

I've been suffering watching us epically fail in the playoffs. So maybe I'll suffer trying to actually get a superstar. Either way I suffer. At least this way I will not have to waste time watching the playoffs knowing we were fodder for real teams. 

You say we were competitive. If we were competitive we wouldn't have gotten swept as a number 1 seed.

So we were full strength as a #1 seed, when we played Cleveland?  Both teams had injuries in that series, but we had injuries to the one position we couldn't afford to have them at . . . small forward.

The biggest injury to that 2014 - 15 team was to Thabo Sefolosha.  He was the defensive stopper of that team off the bench who also guarded all of the league's top SGs and SFs in key stretches of the game.   The Hawks were a whopping 43 - 9 with Thabo in the lineup that season.  Without him, we were 17 -  13.  It's not a coincidence that as soon as he went down for the season, the Hawks went from world beaters, to a decent but not great team.

He comes back late in the season, and the Hawks go 5 - 2.  It's too bad that he and Pero just couldn't stay at the hotel in New York in the wee hours of the morning, and have NYPDs finest break his leg in a bullcrap altercation, and ruin our dream season.

And it didn't help at all that Demarre also got hurt in Game 1, and wasn't 100% the rest of the way, and Korver gets taken out in Game 2, effectively taking our main outside shooting threat away.

One of the things that losing will do, is make you wish they were at least mediocre again.  If we go through a 3 - 4 year drought of not making the playoffs, you'll be BEGGING the new GM ( because Schlenk will be fired if we're not in the playoffs by year 4 ), to make a move, any move, to get us back to the 8th seed.  A "championship" won't even be on your mind.  Getting back to playoff level will be the thing that matters.  Even if we're just a 37 win team.

 

 

 

[noble]

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

So we were full strength as a #1 seed, when we played Cleveland?  Both teams had injuries in that series, but we had injuries to the one position we couldn't afford to have them at . . . small forward.

The biggest injury to that 2014 - 15 team was to Thabo Sefolosha.  He was the defensive stopper of that team off the bench who also guarded all of the league's top SGs and SFs in key stretches of the game.   The Hawks were a whopping 43 - 9 with Thabo in the lineup that season.  Without him, we were 17 -  13.  It's not a coincidence that as soon as he went down for the season, the Hawks went from world beaters, to a decent but not great team.

He comes back late in the season, and the Hawks go 5 - 2.  It's too bad that he and Pero just couldn't stay at the hotel in New York in the wee hours of the morning, and have NYPDs finest break his leg in a bullcrap altercation, and ruin our dream season.

And it didn't help at all that Demarre also got hurt in Game 1, and wasn't 100% the rest of the way, and Korver gets taken out in Game 2, effectively taking our main outside shooting threat away.

One of the things that losing will do, is make you wish they were at least mediocre again.  If we go through a 3 - 4 year drought of not making the playoffs, you'll be BEGGING the new GM ( because Schlenk will be fired if we're not in the playoffs by year 4 ), to make a move, any move, to get us back to the 8th seed.  A "championship" won't even be on your mind.  Getting back to playoff level will be the thing that matters.  Even if we're just a 37 win team.

 

 

 

Maybe I'm jaded but as much as I wished we would have won, we realistically didn't have a chance to win that series, even at full health. The playoffs are so much different than the regular season. Maybe we wouldn't have gotten swept, but I didn't see us winning that series. We didn't have the firepower or a guy that could take over down the stretch. 

I've say through a lot of lean years with this team. I'm to this point where if we don't have a realistic shot at a ring, I'll just watch from the outside, until we do. It's the way the NBA is now. While I like basketball, if my team isn't in the finals I don't watch. I haven't watched a finals in a long time. So we miss the playoffs, okay. Seriously it isn't a big deal to me. I'm good with whatever at this point. I just want to see a ring before I die.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, noble said:

Maybe I'm jaded but as much as I wished we would have won, we realistically didn't have a chance to win that series, even at full health. The playoffs are so much different than the regular season. Maybe we wouldn't have gotten swept, but I didn't see us winning that series. We didn't have the firepower or a guy that could take over down the stretch. 

I've say through a lot of lean years with this team. I'm to this point where if we don't have a realistic shot at a ring, I'll just watch from the outside, until we do. It's the way the NBA is now. While I like basketball, if my team isn't in the finals I don't watch. I haven't watched a finals in a long time. So we miss the playoffs, okay. Seriously it isn't a big deal to me. I'm good with whatever at this point. I just want to see a ring before I die.

Or how about admitting that Lebron James is arguably one of the 3 greatest players of all time?

And as a person that actually likes to go to games and watch them live, I'm definitely not cool with watching a bad Hawks team for years on end.

[noble]

33 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Or how about admitting that Lebron James is arguably one of the 3 greatest players of all time?

And as a person that actually likes to go to games and watch them live, I'm definitely not cool with watching a bad Hawks team for years on end.

He is. But, even if by some miracle you make it past him, the Warriors were sitting there also loaded with superstar talent.

I'm fine with them being bad, it isn't like we had more than a month of coverage even as a 1 seed. Heck we were the 1 seed and we didn't talked about in the playoffs, it was already a forgone conclusion we weren't making it to the ECF much less a champ game. 

I just want this team to be considered to have a shot. Until that happens makong the playoffs or not is a moot point.

[Jungle Jack]

5 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Or how about admitting that Lebron James is arguably one of the 3 greatest players of all time?

And as a person that actually likes to go to games and watch them live, I'm definitely not cool with watching a bad Hawks team for years on end.

 

Truer words.  Now that franchises can get away from catering first and foremost to season ticket and walk up ticket holders thanks to the massive increase in TV revenue they can put out garbage and cash in when the LeBrons and so forth come to town.

 

I am hoping that with so many other franchises purposely tanking between the change to the lottery and so much competition to the race to the bottom that perhaps we turn out of the skid.  Getting one of the top two picks really might accelerate things.

[Vol4ever]

haha.........we cant even get the #1 pick.   This years tank was a failure, this year all around from players to front office was a failure.  Been a fan since the 70s and don't remember such an inept front office.  

[Jungle Jack]

While I will grant you we will no doubt get the 7th pick by Hawkian logic, we have I think a 13% chance of getting the first.  I am hoping worst case to bundle the 30th and the 2nd rounder along with the lottery pick to move up for Doncic or Aynton.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Jungle Jack

[TheNorthCydeRises]

20 hours ago, Jungle Jack said:

While I will grant you we will no doubt get the 7th pick by Hawkian logic, we have I think a 13% chance of getting the first.  I am hoping worst case to bundle the 30th and the 2nd rounder along with the lottery pick to move up for Doncic or Aynton.

But even with that, we have to hope that Doncic or Ayton are generational type Hall of Fame talents.  I don't think they are.   Now granted, you'll have at least 2 guys in this draft who will end up being Hall of Famers.  But I don't think anyone can come to a consensus of who they'll be, nor if they'll be good enough to be the lead guy on a championship team.  That's what makes tanking such a bad move more than a good one.

If the Hawks don't find their generational talent in these next 2 drafts, we could be in for the same scenario that we just came out from.  Then when we do find him, we have to quickly surround him with players that can help make him a great player.

[nathan2331]

But even with that, we have to hope that Doncic or Ayton are generational type Hall of Fame talents.  I don't think they are.   Now granted, you'll have at least 2 guys in this draft who will end up being Hall of Famers.  But I don't think anyone can come to a consensus of who they'll be, nor if they'll be good enough to be the lead guy on a championship team.  That's what makes tanking such a bad move more than a good one.

If the Hawks don't find their generational talent in these next 2 drafts, we could be in for the same scenario that we just came out from.  Then when we do find him, we have to quickly surround him with players that can help make him a great player.

What was the alternative? Keep a mediocre team together, led by a declining Dwight Howard and Paul Millsap? This rebuild might not work, but I still believe it holds much more potential than hoping a premier free agent signs here.

[Jungle Jack]

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

But even with that, we have to hope that Doncic or Ayton are generational type Hall of Fame talents.  I don't think they are.   Now granted, you'll have at least 2 guys in this draft who will end up being Hall of Famers.  But I don't think anyone can come to a consensus of who they'll be, nor if they'll be good enough to be the lead guy on a championship team.  That's what makes tanking such a bad move more than a good one.

If the Hawks don't find their generational talent in these next 2 drafts, we could be in for the same scenario that we just came out from.  Then when we do find him, we have to quickly surround him with players that can help make him a great player.

 

I could not agree more.  I still have no clue who will go or even should go first and no doubt once the agents start doing their thing and we get longforms replete with glowing testimonies of the subject's transcendent and generational talent and the quirky aside about loving Skittles the projected lottery might change.

 

Doncic would be a great fit as far as the Hawks are currently constructed and I am not liking the idea of the Hawks taking Trae Young with the lottery pick.  More than anything, I just think it better to not have to integrate four rookies and would rather use that capital for the best prospect.  With the minor league being an option,  it would make sense if the 2nd was not at the tippity top to otherwise stash overseas or G league.

 

[KB21]

11 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

But even with that, we have to hope that Doncic or Ayton are generational type Hall of Fame talents.  I don't think they are.   Now granted, you'll have at least 2 guys in this draft who will end up being Hall of Famers.  But I don't think anyone can come to a consensus of who they'll be, nor if they'll be good enough to be the lead guy on a championship team.  That's what makes tanking such a bad move more than a good one.

If the Hawks don't find their generational talent in these next 2 drafts, we could be in for the same scenario that we just came out from.  Then when we do find him, we have to quickly surround him with players that can help make him a great player.

Nonsense.  Everyone knows that he best way to win is to have a ton of losses for several years and hope LeBron retires by he time he’s 40.