I’m concerned we TANKED too late

[JTB]

I can’t believe I’m saying this but if we were going to tank it should have been about 4 or 5 years ago when the 76ers started ....reason is, is because....well  have you seen the so called “weak east” lately?!

the weak east nonsense can stop there are legitimately 4 teams in the east who are young and ready to takeover the east as the LeBron era dies. Even if LeBron gets back to the finals again the east already has 4 stacked teams ready to dominate for years to come, which is very bad for the hawks.

1) CELTICS -

this team is loaded and very young (one of the youngest in the nba right now) as much as I hate to say it the Celtics have legitimately 5 all stars you can see in Kyrie, Hayward, Horford, and now Brown and Tatum are honestly sure all stars not to mention Rozier is making his name to be the best backup pg in the NBA...all of this with a top nba coach in brad Stevens 

2) 76ERS -

this team is also young and very good but not as young as the Celtics overall but still has a very young main core led by Embiid whose easily the best overall true center in the nba and best we’ve seen probably since Howard in the Orlando days . Along Embiid you got Simmons whose the closest thing we’ve seen to a LeBron James clone even has the body to put on more muscle in the future and could be damn clone of LeBron . Covington has had a break out year and is an excellent 3&D guy and perfect role player....it’s only a matter of time to see how fultz works in all of this...all this with head coach who’s a former long time assistant of pops, Mr. Brett Brown.

3) RAPTORS - 

they will never take over the east seem like cause of all the poor playoffs in the past but the team is very good in the regular season led by Derozan and will likely continue to be in the top 4 in the east playoffs for a while longer.

4) BUCKS -

this team severely under achieved and they just need a head coach (cough Bud) ....and I bet they will instantly start to make some noise. Their roster is kinda loaded overall but not as young or good as the Celtics or 76ers but with the right coaching I can see them as huge problem moving forward as long as they choose the right coach.

 

POINT IM MAKING:

im not trying to brag on other teams in the east but the future of the east without LeBron dominating all the east teams every single year is already here. These teams are all young enough and all have at least 1 superstar player (Kyrie, Embiid, Simmons, Derozan, Giannis) partnered with an all star player and potential all star players.

im not trying to make this a knock on schlenk but his “5 year plan” almost has to go perfect if he really believes he can  have the hawks competing with the best in the east in 5 years.

Can you imagine these teams going forward? It’s no telling how good these teams are going to be in 5 years! Look how good the Celtics and 76ers are now and how young they are!

again not a hate thread on schlenk (though I really don’t like him I’m not trying to hide that)...I’m just saying I don’t see the vision being realistic and that’s my biggest issue as a fan...Unfortunately @KB21 is looking more and more right as the days past by (and no I’m not trying to feed into his negative ways) but come on Squawk! The east is not weak in the top 4 anymore....and if LeBron stays in the east and creates a new big 3 in Cleveland  that would be 5 dominate teams in the east for minimum 5 years.

 

im just saying guys and gals ....this 5 years plan schlenk is now talking about is going to be ultra hard to realistically do. He has no choice but to hit on 3 out of the 5 pics minimum. If we talking playoffs in 4-5 years.

 

NOT BEING NEGATIVE JUST LOOKING AT WHATS MORE LIKELY TO HAPPEN.

and it’s more likely that Schlenk hits on 2 of the 5 high lottery picks we’ll get over the years.

[hazer]

It should’ve started when Alice Whorefart walked, probably not 5 years ago. Schlenk did very well picking J-Baps and enDorsey (GREAT 6th-man potential) in his first draft. So I have more confidence in his draft skills. And his 5-year plan speaks more of ECFs, not playoffs. Recall that he mentioned being back in the playoffs in a couple of years (‘20) in the 92.9 interview. If all goes well, of course. Big “if”...

[KB21]

The team should have never tanked to begin with.  

[JTB]

1 hour ago, hazer said:

It should’ve started when Alice Whorefart walked, probably not 5 years ago. Schlenk did very well picking J-Baps and enDorsey (GREAT 6th-man potential) in his first draft. So I have more confidence in his draft skills. And his 5-year plan speaks more of ECFs, not playoffs. Recall that he mentioned being back in the playoffs in a couple of years (‘20) in the 92.9 interview. If all goes well, of course. Big “if”...

ECFs in 5 years! Wow he’s really reaching! I don’t think Atlanta has had a gm quite this bold. 

We’ve surely had some strong willed ones but not this kinda “I got it all figured out” type.

[JTB]

37 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The team should have never tanked to begin with.  

But if it was going to happen anyways it should have started when we first got bud. Everything at that point should have been redone.

[davis171]

Edited May 2, 2018 by davis171

[Peoriabird]

6 hours ago, JTB said:

But if it was going to happen anyways it should have started when we first got bud. Everything at that point should have been redone.

That would have been great for me because it would have essentially killed the "legend of Bud the great" since he would have quit after his 1st season in Atlanta.

[KB21]

9 hours ago, JTB said:

But if it was going to happen anyways it should have started when we first got bud. Everything at that point should have been redone.

Tanking never had to happen.  Atlanta could have done what they did when Ferry remade the team after trading Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams, and then letting Josh Smith walk.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Nah JTB . . . it's the exact opposite.  We shouldn't have tanked at all and brought back at least 2 of the 3 between Howard - Millsap - Hardaway Jr.   Let's say you still let Millsap walk, but keep Howard and Hardaway Jr.  This is the Hawks team.  

 

PG - Schröder ( 15.5 mil )

G - Hardaway Jr ( 16.5 mill )

F - Prince ( 2.4 mill )

PF - Dedmon ( 6.9 mill )

C - Howard ( 23.2 mill )

 

Total starter payroll ( 64.5 mill )

 

The max void left by not signing Millsap could've easily fit Hardaway Jr and Dedmon into the mix.

Core bench rotation players in bold.

 

PG - Delaney ( 2.5 mill ) / PG - Taylor ( 1.3 mill )

G - Dorsey ( 0.8 mill ) 

F - Bazemore ( 16.9 mill ) / F - Bembry ( 1.6 mill )

PF - Collins ( 1.9 mill ) 

F/C - Muscala ( 5 mill )

 

7-man bench payroll ( 30 mill )

 

That 12 man lineup is a playoff team, and potentially a top 5 squad ( 45+ wins ). 

Moving Bazemore to the bench as a super sub would do wonders for his career, IMO.   The big thing is that you wouldn't have to depend on his production if he's not playing well. 

And I personally like the idea of having a Howard - Collins - Dedmon rotation in the frontcourt.  You can do a lot of things and play a lot of ways with that frontcourt.

Hopefully, Taylor could beat out Delaney for the backup PG spot.

 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I agree, but I think the beginning point should have been the 2016 trade deadline.  We traded Teague to Indy and lost Horford to Boston.  Should have dumped Horford at the 2016 deadline and realized that Schröder isn't a starter for a championship team... Could dumped both of them to Boston for draft picks and expiring deals, but hindsight is 20/20.

 

but better late than never...

[EazyRoc]

12 hours ago, JTB said:

I can’t believe I’m saying this but if we were going to tank it should have been about 4 or 5 years ago when the 76ers started ....reason is, is because....well  have you seen the so called “weak east” lately?!

the weak east nonsense can stop there are legitimately 4 teams in the east who are young and ready to takeover the east as the LeBron era dies. Even if LeBron gets back to the finals again the east already has 4 stacked teams ready to dominate for years to come, which is very bad for the hawks.

1) CELTICS -

this team is loaded and very young (one of the youngest in the nba right now) as much as I hate to say it the Celtics have legitimately 5 all stars you can see in Kyrie, Hayward, Horford, and now Brown and Tatum are honestly sure all stars not to mention Rozier is making his name to be the best backup pg in the NBA...all of this with a top nba coach in brad Stevens 

2) 76ERS -

this team is also young and very good but not as young as the Celtics overall but still has a very young main core led by Embiid whose easily the best overall true center in the nba and best we’ve seen probably since Howard in the Orlando days . Along Embiid you got Simmons whose the closest thing we’ve seen to a LeBron James clone even has the body to put on more muscle in the future and could be damn clone of LeBron . Covington has had a break out year and is an excellent 3&D guy and perfect role player....it’s only a matter of time to see how fultz works in all of this...all this with head coach who’s a former long time assistant of pops, Mr. Brett Brown.

3) RAPTORS - 

they will never take over the east seem like cause of all the poor playoffs in the past but the team is very good in the regular season led by Derozan and will likely continue to be in the top 4 in the east playoffs for a while longer.

4) BUCKS -

this team severely under achieved and they just need a head coach (cough Bud) ....and I bet they will instantly start to make some noise. Their roster is kinda loaded overall but not as young or good as the Celtics or 76ers but with the right coaching I can see them as huge problem moving forward as long as they choose the right coach.

 

POINT IM MAKING:

im not trying to brag on other teams in the east but the future of the east without LeBron dominating all the east teams every single year is already here. These teams are all young enough and all have at least 1 superstar player (Kyrie, Embiid, Simmons, Derozan, Giannis) partnered with an all star player and potential all star players.

im not trying to make this a knock on schlenk but his “5 year plan” almost has to go perfect if he really believes he can  have the hawks competing with the best in the east in 5 years.

Can you imagine these teams going forward? It’s no telling how good these teams are going to be in 5 years! Look how good the Celtics and 76ers are now and how young they are!

again not a hate thread on schlenk (though I really don’t like him I’m not trying to hide that)...I’m just saying I don’t see the vision being realistic and that’s my biggest issue as a fan...Unfortunately @KB21 is looking more and more right as the days past by (and no I’m not trying to feed into his negative ways) but come on Squawk! The east is not weak in the top 4 anymore....and if LeBron stays in the east and creates a new big 3 in Cleveland  that would be 5 dominate teams in the east for minimum 5 years.

 

im just saying guys and gals ....this 5 years plan schlenk is now talking about is going to be ultra hard to realistically do. He has no choice but to hit on 3 out of the 5 pics minimum. If we talking playoffs in 4-5 years.

 

NOT BEING NEGATIVE JUST LOOKING AT WHATS MORE LIKELY TO HAPPEN.

and it’s more likely that Schlenk hits on 2 of the 5 high lottery picks we’ll get over the years.

We are on the right path, but Budcox hamstrung us trying to hold on tight to an ineffective core. That’s what killed us. Even without a full on tank, they should’ve tried to package Millsap, Horford, Teague, or THJ for something useful and this wouldn’t have to be a full on tank. That’s FIRMLY on the shoulders of Coach Bud. Coach Bud set us down this path. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by EazyRoc

[KB21]

5 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

We are on the right path, but Budcox hamstrung us trying to hold on tight to an ineffective core. That’s what killed us. Even without a full on tank, they should’ve tried to package Millsap, Horford, Teague, or THJ for something useful and this wouldn’t have to be a full on tank. That’s FIRMLY on the shoulders of Coach Bud. Coach Bud set us down this path. 

Again, Travis Schlenk is the one that decided to tank, not Coach Bud.

[JTB]

I hear everyone’s opinion but I think the BIG point being missed is that there are already very young teams in the east ready to take over after the LeBron era and they are waaay ahead of us!....especially Boston and 76ers (could add bucks depending on which Coach they hire).

I know schlenk for a fact doesn’t have a 10 year plan! No gm goes to a new team saying we are going to compete for a championship in 10 years so the 5 year plan he publicly said I believe is the real goal.

now whether he’s able to achieve that or not has to do with the draft...but that’s so hard to do I think schlenk is in over his head if he thinks he’s going to hit on all or most these draft picks ....cause if he really wants to compete in 5 damn years he has to almost be perfect on all these upcoming lottery picks we will probably have! And that’s the issue I don’t think he’s going to hit a home Run on even half the picks and I’m not being negative it’s just that drafts these days just aren’t the same like back then.

players are less promising.

[mrhonline]

13 hours ago, KB21 said:

The team should have never tanked to begin with.  

The Hawks definitely should've signed at least one of LeBron and Durant when they were free agents and also should've traded for Curry.  It drives me nuts thinking they wasted those opportunities.

[KB21]

19 minutes ago, mrhonline said:

The Hawks definitely should've signed at least one of LeBron and Durant when they were free agents and also should've traded for Curry.  It drives me nuts thinking they wasted those opportunities.

Yeah.  They should have done it sooner.  They missed out on the opportunity to draft Andrew Wiggins and D'Angelo Russell.

[EazyRoc]

3 hours ago, KB21 said:

Again, Travis Schlenk is the one that decided to tank, not Coach Bud.

It’s Coach Bud who didn’t pull the trigger on trades to get back value for the guys we lost.

[KB21]

17 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

It’s Coach Bud who didn’t pull the trigger on trades to get back value for the guys we lost.

And that absolves Schlenk of his responsibility in making the decision to not even try to be competitive on the court?

[davis171]

4 hours ago, KB21 said:

Again, Travis Schlenk is the one that decided to tank, not Coach Bud.

no management decided to tank.

[JTB]

19 minutes ago, davis171 said:

no management decided to tank.

I agree ...ressler is the one who wanted to tank or none of this would be happening 

[EazyRoc]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

And that absolves Schlenk of his responsibility in making the decision to not even try to be competitive on the court?

Neither Dwight Howard or Paul Millsap would have made our team competitive. Just to speculate, I think it was pretty obvious that Dwight may have been an overall negative as it appeared he disrupted our chemistry and I’m sure his OVERALL impact on the court towards our success was neutral. Do you agree ?

Just curious, what exactly do you think Schlenk should’ve/could’ve done to make our team competitive?

Because neither guys got their respective teams over the hump when they left.