Steve Koonin: the Hawks will be insanely aggressive.

[kg01]

13 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

 

 

A Heartless F_ck

You and KBToys gonna be cellmates.

[Spud2nique]

Just now, kg01 said:

You and KBToys gonna be cellmates.

I kid of course..I didn’t PM him and insult him.

[Royjr9]

17 minutes ago, thecampster said:

It would be more like

1+ 16 + minor salary dump for

Dennis + 3 +19 +30.

Ideally they would like someone to take Chandler but realize that isn't going to happen and stay in the top 5.

I would insist on more while I think denis has run his course I would insist on something else.

 

12 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

18 minutes ago, thecampster said:

It would be more like

1+ 16 + minor salary dump for

Dennis + 3 +19 +30.

Ideally they would like someone to take Chandler but realize that isn't going to happen and stay in the top 5.

 

Hopefully we'd counter with some future protected picks, but I'd be a fan of the move. I want to keep those picks, but it's still Ayton>everyone else for me.

This. Seems like they would win this trade as presented originally and I think ayton could be good.

[thecampster]

19 minutes ago, Royjr9 said:

I would insist on more while I think denis has run his course I would insist on something else.

 

This. Seems like they would win this trade as presented originally and I think ayton could be good.

No it "isn't" a win.  They are knocking on the door of the cap (if they renounce their free agents they are just under the cap) and if they took on Dennis they would be dangerously close to the LT.  Whereas the Hawks would be move up 2 slots in the lottery but also 3 slots in the second round and gaining an additional $15 million in cap space to chase free agents.  By adding Ayton and another decent lottery pick (or packaging 16 + current players/next years picks to move back into the lottery, the Hawks would have a solid young core to attract playoffs ready free agents.  Or by creating this "space", the Hawks could recoup those picks by taking on other people's salary for their draft selections.  

Think of it this way....if you give up a player and are under the cap, you create space to sign a different player to replace him. If you are the Suns and take on Dennis, you are giving up the chance to sign someone else.  You can't think of it as a 1 year scenario. The 3 picks + Dennis for 2 picks is actually a win for the Hawks because of what it clears for them to do later.

[Royjr9]

5 minutes ago, thecampster said:

No it "isn't" a win.  They are knocking on the door of the cap (if they renounce their free agents they are just under the cap) and if they took on Dennis they would be dangerously close to the LT.  Whereas the Hawks would be move up 2 slots in the lottery but also 3 slots in the second round and gaining an additional $15 million in cap space to chase free agents.  By adding Ayton and another decent lottery pick (or packaging 16 + current players/next years picks to move back into the lottery, the Hawks would have a solid young core to attract playoffs ready free agents.  Or by creating this "space", the Hawks could recoup those picks by taking on other people's salary for their draft selections.  

Think of it this way....if you give up a player and are under the cap, you create space to sign a different player to replace him. If you are the Suns and take on Dennis, you are giving up the chance to sign someone else.  You can't think of it as a 1 year scenario. The 3 picks + Dennis for 2 picks is actually a win for the Hawks because of what it clears for them to do later.

I could be wrong while I don’t think Dennis here for the long haul I think he is worth something. I know I’m not in a hurry to just give him away. the 16 might give you a decent haul but The point I’m angling at is the potential Memphis deal or Denver deal gets you more closer to what we may actually want. 

[Flight]

Maybe this will be the year Koonin isn’t all smoke haha

[JTB]

56 minutes ago, Royjr9 said:

I could be wrong while I don’t think Dennis here for the long haul I think he is worth something. I know I’m not in a hurry to just give him away. the 16 might give you a decent haul but The point I’m angling at is the potential Memphis deal or Denver deal gets you more closer to what we may actually want. 

I wonder if we can trade our late first rd picks to Memphis and take back their 4th pick as well as Parsons bad contract.

that way we can have picks 3 & 4...seem like pipe dream lol but I wonder how badly Memphis wants to get rid of parsons contract and how faithful they are with themselves to sign a marquee free agent 

[thecampster]

3 minutes ago, JTB said:

I wonder if we can trade our late first rd picks to Memphis and take back their 4th pick as well as Parsons bad contract.

that way we can have picks 3 & 4...seem like pipe dream lol but I wonder how badly Memphis wants to get rid of parsons contract and how faithful they are with themselves to sign a marquee free agent 

I floated this idea earlier this week. The big consideration here is that taking back Parsons would put us over the cap and so rules for fair and equitable salary trades kick in.  So we would have to send back a bit more than $5 million in salary. It would have to be the 19th pick though because 30 isn't enough (even with Dennis and swallowing the salary) to get 4...pretty close though.  You see, the problem with sending back Dennis is although it avoids salary rules, it only clears up 8.5 million in salary for them instead of the full 24 million Parsons is owed.  Plus, they already have a point guard, Dennis would have to slide to the 2 for about 1/2 the time he is on the floor and he isn't efficient enough or a good enough defender for that.

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, Royjr9 said:

I could be wrong while I don’t think Dennis here for the long haul I think he is worth something. I know I’m not in a hurry to just give him away. the 16 might give you a decent haul but The point I’m angling at is the potential Memphis deal or Denver deal gets you more closer to what we may actually want. 

Although Dennis scores and is fairly good with the ball, his team impact is negative for his floor time. He's a +2.5 offensively but a -4.0 defensively for a total impact of a -1.5.  The numbers are not encouraging when only focusing on his opponent PG. Although Dennis scores a 19.7 PER on the floor, his opponent scores an 18.5 PER. When you consider opponent PER for starters is always deflated because starters play part of their time against subs, a +1.2 PER for a starter is pretty low.  You can look at extreme PG's to see what top tier looks like.  Chris Paul's PER at the point is 28.4, while his opponent's is 14.6. A plus 13.8 PER over his opponent. Damian Lillard is 26.5 vs 14.7.  John Wall in a bad season was 21.8 vs 17.6 (+4.2 PER).  When you consider how dominant Dennis' usage was last year, his numbers don't bear out a positive team impact. He is an average starter at this point in his career and you'd be trading for what his potential could be.  If Dennis were injured and lost a step, he'd be useless. His main value is his blazing speed. He is really not developing an all around game at this point.

The absolute best trade target is Orlando who is starving for even an average NBA PG.

[thecampster]

and FYI, the 2 players everyone else in the league wants on our roster are Prince and Collins who are (IMHO) untouchable.  Prince especially is a hot commodity and could easily be spun to get us back into the top 10. We won't do it, but he's our most valuable commodity due to his high production and low salary.  Prince's PER stats (for example) are vastly skewed because he often was not guarding his counterpart, but instead the best back court/wing player on the other team.  

The last 22 games of the year, Prince scored 20 or more points 13 times...30 or more 3 times.  He was a very hot commodity once Baze went down and he moved up to the #2 option.

[thecampster]

see here, next to last game of the year 

 

 

[Jungle Jack]

The proposed PHX 1st for 3rd and Denis to me anyway is firmly in you're lips, God's ear's territory.  That would flipping rule, but holy crap do I not value Denis high enough on his own to get us there.  Perhaps the 3, 34th, and Denis would move the needle?