Begining to look like Dennis is staying

[AHF]

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Only time will tell if the plan to play them both works and if Dennis remains long term.

This one I just struggle to envision how it would work.  Here is what I feel pretty certain about when they play together:

1. Dennis will be the main ballhandler.  Why?  Because Dennis is a disaster off the ball and the doesn't have a good enough perimeter shot to force people to respect him in space.  If Dennis can't drive, he is very much an offensive non-threat and he was brutally bad off the ball when Teague was running point.
2. The converse must then be that Trae will mainly play off the ball during minutes on the floor with Dennis.  Offensively, he could do well with this given his elite college shooting and his gravity with the threat of his 3pt shot would help open the floor for Dennis.  It could also present some challenging situations for opponents with PNR/PNP where opponents would have to try to stay with a very fast cutting Dennis and still be sufficiently close to Trae to challenge his shot.  The main downside to this is that Trae is learning by practice and observation about running the team's offense during these minutes because he is off the ball.  In addition, some of what would be run with Dennis and Trae on the floor together would not work the same way at all with a legit wing like Huerter or Baze playing instead which means that lessons learned on that might not be transferable to future lineups.
3. Neither Dennis nor Trae will be capable of checking most 2's.  How will they deal with DeMar Derozan, Jaylen Brown, JR Smith, Oladipo, Bradley Beal, ...heck even guys like Tony Snell and Reggie Bullock would present huge problems for them.  For Trae's longterm development, it is hard to see much value in him trying to check these guys and if you put Dennis in that unfortunate role then you undercut any effort to build his trade value.

[benhillboy]

Put me square in the category of those who don’t want Dennis anywhere near Young.  Schlenk just protecting Dennis’ low value as he should.  I’m putting faith in Dedmon and Baze to insulate Young from any off-floor or locker room foolishness that would get him benched or arrested.

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

This one I just struggle to envision how it would work.  Here is what I feel pretty certain about when they play together:

1. Dennis will be the main ballhandler.  Why?  Because Dennis is a disaster off the ball and the doesn't have a good enough perimeter shot to force people to respect him in space.  If Dennis can't drive, he is very much an offensive non-threat and he was brutally bad off the ball when Teague was running point.
2. The converse must then be that Trae will mainly play off the ball during minutes on the floor with Dennis.  Offensively, he could do well with this given his elite college shooting and his gravity with the threat of his 3pt shot would help open the floor for Dennis.  It could also present some challenging situations for opponents with PNR/PNP where opponents would have to try to stay with a very fast cutting Dennis and still be sufficiently close to Trae to challenge his shot.  The main downside to this is that Trae is learning by practice and observation about running the team's offense during these minutes because he is off the ball.  In addition, some of what would be run with Dennis and Trae on the floor together would not work the same way at all with a legit wing like Huerter or Baze playing instead which means that lessons learned on that might not be transferable to future lineups.
3. Neither Dennis nor Trae will be capable of checking most 2's.  How will they deal with DeMar Derozan, Jaylen Brown, JR Smith, Oladipo, Bradley Beal, ...heck even guys like Tony Snell and Reggie Bullock would present huge problems for them.  For Trae's longterm development, it is hard to see much value in him trying to check these guys and if you put Dennis in that unfortunate role then you undercut any effort to build his trade value.

From Cunningham's initial article, he didn't think they would play a ton of minutes together.

Dennis starts with Baze, Baze sits, Trae comes in, they play together awhile, Dennis sits.

I don't think it's the plan to get them a ton of minutes together.

[deester11]

6 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Put me square in the category of those who don’t want Dennis anywhere near Young.  Schlenk just protecting Dennis’ low value as he should.  I’m putting faith in Dedmon and Baze to insulate Young from any off-floor or locker room foolishness that would get him benched or arrested.

I've been a fan of Dennis from the get go.  I am not a fan as well of him "Mentoring" Young.   Even his biggest fans will admit that he can sulk, get an attitude and be his own worst enemy.  I think that deserves to be mentioned without all the people calling out other people for stating fact/opinions. Too funny seeing all the good posters, knock the opinions of others.  I do not see many minutes for the two of them together.  Unless we're really shooting for RJ Barrett next year.

[benhillboy]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

This one I just struggle to envision how it would work.  Here is what I feel pretty certain about when they play together:

1. Dennis will be the main ballhandler.  Why?  Because Dennis is a disaster off the ball and the doesn't have a good enough perimeter shot to force people to respect him in space.  If Dennis can't drive, he is very much an offensive non-threat and he was brutally bad off the ball when Teague was running point.
2. The converse must then be that Trae will mainly play off the ball during minutes on the floor with Dennis.  Offensively, he could do well with this given his elite college shooting and his gravity with the threat of his 3pt shot would help open the floor for Dennis.  It could also present some challenging situations for opponents with PNR/PNP where opponents would have to try to stay with a very fast cutting Dennis and still be sufficiently close to Trae to challenge his shot.  The main downside to this is that Trae is learning by practice and observation about running the team's offense.  In addition, some of what would be run with Dennis and Trae on the floor together would not work the same way at all with a legit wing like Huerter or Baze playing instead which means that lessons learned on that might not be transferable to future lineups.
3. Neither Dennis nor Trae will be capable of checking most 2's.  How will they deal with DeMar Derozan, Jaylen Brown, JR Smith, Oladipo, Bradley Beal, ...heck even guys like Tony Snell and Reggie Bullock would present huge problems for them.  For Trae's longterm development, it is hard to see much value in him trying to check these guys and if you put Dennis in that unfortunate role then you undercut any effort to build his trade value.

Bruh, Baze, Huerter, Bembry, and Dorsey all fit with Young better.  Dennis’ ideal backcourt mate is Andre Roberson: total non-factor on offense with no ego and great size who specializes in dirty work.  You just have to dig deep into the luxury tax to secure 3 All Stars in the frontcourt and a Top 3 bench.

[Peoriabird]

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Ball protection, the ability to absorb contact and finish, his midrange improved. He was money on that baseline out of bounds play in the midrange.

His defense and 3ball took a nose dive off a cliff.

What's funny is, I've already heard the narrative that the reason Trae was so bad defensively was because he had to carry the offense.....sounds familiar, same can be said about Dennis.

Then again if the Hawks are deliberately trying to lose games, why give a hoot on defense.

Hawk fans are so funny...Everytime Dennis won games last year, the board was jumping out of windows calling for Schlenk to trade him because he was too good and was messing up the tank. Now he sucks on defense and doesn't deserve a roster spot. Lol!!

[DJlaysitup]

To keep Dennis in the situation the Hawks are in now would be beyond stupid (even for our Hawks).  Cut him and swallow the contract. 

[NBASupes]

You can be a mentor, that doesn't mean you will play the same. Dennis can teach and the in and out of being a starting PG in the NBA 

[terrell]

15 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Put me square in the category of those who don’t want Dennis anywhere near Young.  Schlenk just protecting Dennis’ low value as he should.  I’m putting faith in Dedmon and Baze to insulate Young from any off-floor or locker room foolishness that would get him benched or arrested.

"Trae, you know I own a nightclub right? You should come by after the game"..

[DJlaysitup]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You can be a mentor, that doesn't mean you will play the same. Dennis can teach and the in and out of being a starting PG in the NBA 

The idea that Dennis can (or would want to) be a "mentor" or a "teacher" is absurd.  He has been shopped around the league and there were no interested parties.  There is a reason for that.

[AHF]

26 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

From Cunningham's initial article, he didn't think they would play a ton of minutes together.

Dennis starts with Baze, Baze sits, Trae comes in, they play together awhile, Dennis sits.

I don't think it's the plan to get them a ton of minutes together.

This creates the dilemma of how to simultaneously feature Dennis to bestow him with real value for a trade and give Trae the minutes he needs to develop.  Dennis has averaged just over 31 minutes per game the last two seasons.  Any reduction in minutes should be expected to translate into a reduction of his counting stats which would reduce the ability to market him as a starter (which is the only way to get trade value out of a guy earning >$15M/per).

That leaves 17 minutes for Trae to run the team per game.  For some posters, that time is perfect.  For many, however, that will not be seen as enough time for development for our highest pick in roughly a decade.  I'm assuming we wouldn't assign Trae to the D-League to get him more minutes (I hope not), so then any additional minutes become minutes they share on the floor which sound problematic at best to me.  Dennis guarding 2's depresses his trade value and Trae guarding 2's sounds like a wasted chance to develop him on that end of the floor.

It is a very tough balance to strike.  Give Trae the minutes running the team you'd expect assuming he isn't a bust and Dennis' trade value takes a hit.  Deprive him of the minutes to feature Dennis and you have to question how that makes sense.  (For reference, the highest pick lottery pick in 2017 who played 30+ games and didn't average at least 25 mpg was #8 Ntilikina.  In the 2015 and 2016 drafts going high and not playing 25 mpg was a good sign you sucked #$(#s as a rookie - Hield, Dunn, Bender, Chriss, Hezonja, etc.).  

[DJlaysitup]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

 

.... Give Trae the minutes running the team you'd expect assuming he isn't a bust and Dennis' trade value takes a hit....

Dennis has no trade value at all...Atlanta Sports pundits have admitted that he has been shopped and no team is willing to take him at his current contract.

[JTB]

Ridiculous! Stay or not trae need to be starting you guys are in over your heads with that earn your spot shit...if young players don’t play they won’t get better. Trae need to be able to play full time minutes to get better...he needs actual real game experience!

 

i know damn well we didn’t do all that tanking and then tell a top 5 pick “ oh you need to earn your spot on our high school roster”.....GTFOH

3 minutes ago, DJlaysitup said:

Dennis has no trade value at all...Atlanta Sports pundits have admitted that he has been shopped and no team is willing to take him at his current contract.

He’s going to be an excellent ass bench player then! May win sixth man if he acts right.

[DJlaysitup]

11 minutes ago, JTB said:

 

He’s going to be an excellent ass bench player then! May win sixth man if he acts right.

I agree with your post JTB....but I would offer a wager.  I will give you 100 to 1 odds that Dennis is not the sixth man of the year as an Atlanta Hawk next year.  So if I win you owe me $5 and if you win I owe you $500...

[AtlKauzie]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

Trae off the bench? 

Yeah right. No way he was "excited" when we drafted Trae. lol

 

[Eddielives]

One of Orlando, Phoenix or New York will eventually come calling with an offer.  But honestly, I think the most we can hope for is a bad contract and a late 1st at best.  And we'll be happy to take it even though, if put in the right situation, Dennis has more value than that.

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, Eddielives said:

One of Orlando, Phoenix or New York will eventually come calling with an offer.  But honestly, I think the most we can hope for is a bad contract and a late 1st at best.  And we'll be happy to take it even though, if put in the right situation, Dennis has more value than that.

Except all the offers floating on the interwebs is stuff like Vuceviv for Dennis, Biyombo and a 2nd for Dennis, Noah and Mudiay for Dennis, Knight for Dennis. Dudley and Knight for Dennis.  They can keep every single one of those suggestions and shove it.

[JayBirdHawk]

https://mobile.twitter.com/peachtreehoops/status/1011331537340633089

 

[Kimsey]

They play together just in passing stretches or when the team struggles to score. Something like

Dennis

Trae

Baze or Prince

Collins

Dedmon

[warcore]

I think it's the right move. Dennis will feel pressure to up his game with a better back court breathing all over his minutes. And they can both learn a lot from each other - especially Dennis. Trade Dennis (or is it Trae Dennis?) when his value is up.