Here is an article on Peachtree Hopps that attempts to explain the Lin trade

[Peoriabird]

53 minutes ago, KB21 said:

  You do realize that the roster putting the team in the top 5 is part of the tank?

And my response continues to be the same...If the guys you drafted land you in the top 5 so be it.  I'm down with that as long as the players play their hearts out and the coaches coach their hearts out.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

And my response continues to be the same...If the guys you drafted land you in the top 5 so be it.  I'm down with that as long as the players play their hearts out and the coaches coach their hearts out.

So tell me, is part of "coaching their hearts out" allowing Trae Young to have the green light to take a 38 foot three point shot in transition?

The players will play hard regardless.  They are not "in" on the tank.  There is a reason this particular coach was hired though.

[Peoriabird]

17 minutes ago, KB21 said:

So tell me, is part of "coaching their hearts out" allowing Trae Young to have the green light to take a 38 foot three point shot in transition?

 

Are you referring to a few summer league games?  If so, didn't he get better as he learned his teammate better?

[Peoriabird]

Just now, Macknsweetjones said:

Nobody would know if there’s a superstar in the draft of 2019 period because none of those kids have played an nba game, it’s an assumption/gamble with every draft. 3 lottery picks are better than two..especially when 2 of those picks have a stipulation on them.

You just don't throw away an entire season in hope of the 1 savior right?  There are so many other players involved in this process...Think of how they feel.  Dennis kinda spelled it out for y'all.  He said that I am entering my prime and wants to compete for a championship soon.  Who is to say that Prince or others on the team aren't thinking the same thing. You are just looking at this from your perspective as a fan.

[Thomas]

Boston drafted Larry Bird as a Junior before he graduated and he stayed in school. Boston truly sucked at that time and that particular year they didn't win thirty games. Historical results a few years later though not typical of how things tend to go. Thus you know....the Bird Rights stuff. The draft really counts if you can judge talent now as always and Schlenk really needs to project the player and how he would mesh though that particular Bird scenario won't be available again. Think Schlenk might pull this off even with not getting every measure of trade we get involved with. Chemistry, projection and developing is mysterious stuff and think he evaluates talent well. Our rotation will be seriously different a couple of years from now and believe we will win games.   

[HawkItus]

Isn't this the guy who wanted folks to think be 60 win Bud was the worst coach ever?

[thecampster]

17 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

You just don't throw away an entire season in hope of the 1 savior right?  There are so many other players involved in this process...Think of how they feel.  Dennis kinda spelled it out for y'all.  He said that I am entering my prime and wants to compete for a championship soon.  Who is to say that Prince or others on the team aren't thinking the same thing. You are just looking at this from your perspective as a fan.

Actually, if Prince is saying this its because he can't stand Dennis.  Pretty common knowledge that Taurean doesn't like his act much. I'm a firm believer that Taurean is a real stand-up guy and will stick around for an organization that treats him well.

[thecampster]

On 7/15/2018 at 2:24 AM, Peoriabird said:

At some point you have to ask yourself...Why does it need to continue? How many lottery picks are enough? And why would you need to try to get multiple top 5 picks on purpose?  It the current team's optimal performance is a bottom 5 roster so be it....If it isn't, why manipulate it into a bottom 5 performing roster?  I think we have enough of a core to start the growth phase.  We also have possibly 2 other lottery pick coming regardless of how this team performs so why not preach winning?

 

Basically, this guy's research states our 19 year olds will reach their potential at some point between 24 and 27 years of age which lends credence to KB21's "5 years in the lottery" rants.

[EazyRoc]

12 minutes ago, thecampster said:

 

Basically, this guy's research states our 19 year olds will reach their potential at some point between 24 and 27 years of age which lends credence to KB21's "5 years in the lottery" rants.

No, it really doesn’t. The guys research just is what it is. 43 wins is all it took to make the playoffs last year. That number likely decreases to about 38-40. This team won 24 games last year. With natural progression of a young team, 30 wins could realistically be accomplished this year. Long story short, we won’t be in the lottery too much longer unless we continually bottom out the roster year in, year out. This team could make the playoffs 2019-2020. That isn’t outside the realm of possibility. 

[thecampster]

12 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

No, it really doesn’t. The guys research just is what it is. 43 wins is all it took to make the playoffs last year. That number likely decreases to about 38-40. This team won 24 games last year. With natural progression of a young team, 30 wins could realistically be accomplished this year. Long story short, we won’t be in the lottery too much longer unless we continually bottom out the roster year in, year out. This team could make the playoffs 2019-2020. That isn’t outside the realm of possibility. 

Alrighty...I'll play....the 9 straight losing seasons was due to what then?

 

The 10 year playoff streak was due to "what"?

 

Does Miami make the finals without Lebron and Bosh?  Did Miami not trade away the farm to clear space to sign Lebron and Bosh?

The 2009–10 Miami Heat season was the 22nd season of the Miami Heat in the National Basketball Association (NBA). The Heat made the playoffs for the second straight year under Spoelstra. They failed to make it out of the first round once again as they were overpowered by a Boston Celtics squad that featured Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen in five games. Boston eventually lost in seven games to the Los Angeles Lakers in the NBA Finals. Following the season, the Heat would bring in LeBron James and Chris Bosh to join team captain Dwyane Wade.

"

June 23, 2010	To Oklahoma City Thunder----  Daequan Cook No. 18 Pick (Eric Bledsoe)	To Miami Heat---- No. 32nd Pick (Dexter Pittman)
June 24, 2010	To Oklahoma City Thunder---- No. 48 Pick (Latavious Williams)	To Miami Heat---- Future Second-Round Pick Cash Considerations
July 9, 2010	To Cleveland Cavaliers---- 2013 First-Round Pick 2015 First-Round Pick 2012 Second-Round Pick (Jae Crowder) Future Second-Round Pick Trade Exception	To Miami Heat----  LeBron James (sign and trade)
July 9, 2010	To Toronto Raptors---- Two 2011 First-Round Picks Trade Exception	To Miami Heat----  Chris Bosh (sign and trade)
July 12, 2010	To Minnesota Timberwolves----  Michael Beasley	To Miami Heat---- 2011 Second-Round Pick 2014 Second-Round Pick Cash Considerations

 

Was or was not the Golden State rebuild 6 years before they made the playoffs?

Was or was not the rise of Golden State due to them finally trading away assets for Iggy, Brooks, Crawford, Murphy, Blake...all of which were turned into cap space to sign others in the following years?  In every case, its management of the cap, trading the future to capitalize on free agent or expiring contract stars that leads to the championship.  You build a base of young stars but then mortgage the hell out of the future for 2+ stars to pair with them.  See GS signing Durant, Pachulia, Rush, Barbosa, Livingston etc.  All this nonsense of growing your own is just nonsense.  They were crap until they started trading/signing their way up the West.

 

Trades[edit]

June 27, 2013
	To Golden State Warriors Draft rights to 30th pick Nemanja Nedović[1][2]	To Phoenix Suns Draft rights to 29th pick Archie Goodwin Malcolm Lee

July 10, 2013
	To Golden State Warriors Andre Iguodala[3] (from Denver) (sign and trade) Kevin Murphy (from Utah)	To Utah Jazz Andris Biedriņš (from Golden State) Richard Jefferson (from Golden State) Brandon Rush (from Golden State) 2014 & 2017 first-round draft picks (from Golden State) 2016 & 2017 second-round draft picks (from Golden State) 2018 second-round draft pick (from Denver) Cash considerations (from Golden State)	To Denver Nuggets Randy Foye (from Utah) (sign and trade) 2018 second-round draft pick (from Golden State)

January 15, 2014
	To Golden State Warriors Jordan Crawford[4] (from Boston) MarShon Brooks (from Boston)	To Boston Celtics Joel Anthony (from Miami) 2016 second-round pick (from Miami) Conditional first-round pick (from Philadelphia via Golden State)	To Miami Heat Toney Douglas (from Golden State)

February 19, 2014
	To Golden State Warriors Steve Blake[5]	To Los Angeles Lakers MarShon Brooks Kent Bazemore

[REHawksFan]

24 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

No, it really doesn’t. The guys research just is what it is. 43 wins is all it took to make the playoffs last year. That number likely decreases to about 38-40. This team won 24 games last year. With natural progression of a young team, 30 wins could realistically be accomplished this year. Long story short, we won’t be in the lottery too much longer unless we continually bottom out the roster year in, year out. This team could make the playoffs 2019-2020. That isn’t outside the realm of possibility. 

The east will be complete trash this year. Any team that wins 35 games will likely be competing for the 7th and 8th PO spots til the end of the year imo.

Also, unless the GM trades away the young talent on the roster, I don't see how they don't get better each year as prince, Collins, Trae, Huerter, and Spellman all get better. The idea now is to shed to middling players over time and replace them with more young talent and then add vets as they go along. 

People forget what Schlenk said when he took the job. This doesn't have to be an extended rebuild and it certainly doesn't have to be "worst team in the league rebuild. He's going for the GS model not the Philly model. GS never drafted higher than 5th if I'm not mistaken and only did that once.

[REHawksFan]

4 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Alrighty...I'll play....the 9 straight losing seasons was due to what then?

 

The 10 year playoff streak was due to "what"?

 

Does Miami make the finals without Lebron and Bosh?  Did Miami not trade away the farm to clear space to sign Lebron and Bosh?

The 2009–10 Miami Heat season was the 22nd season of the Miami Heat in the National Basketball Association (NBA). The Heat made the playoffs for the second straight year under Spoelstra. They failed to make it out of the first round once again as they were overpowered by a Boston Celtics squad that featured Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen in five games. Boston eventually lost in seven games to the Los Angeles Lakers in the NBA Finals. Following the season, the Heat would bring in LeBron James and Chris Bosh to join team captain Dwyane Wade.

"

June 23, 2010	To Oklahoma City Thunder----  Daequan Cook No. 18 Pick (Eric Bledsoe)	To Miami Heat---- No. 32nd Pick (Dexter Pittman)
June 24, 2010	To Oklahoma City Thunder---- No. 48 Pick (Latavious Williams)	To Miami Heat---- Future Second-Round Pick Cash Considerations
July 9, 2010	To Cleveland Cavaliers---- 2013 First-Round Pick 2015 First-Round Pick 2012 Second-Round Pick (Jae Crowder) Future Second-Round Pick Trade Exception	To Miami Heat----  LeBron James (sign and trade)
July 9, 2010	To Toronto Raptors---- Two 2011 First-Round Picks Trade Exception	To Miami Heat----  Chris Bosh (sign and trade)
July 12, 2010	To Minnesota Timberwolves----  Michael Beasley	To Miami Heat---- 2011 Second-Round Pick 2014 Second-Round Pick Cash Considerations

 

Was or was not the Golden State rebuild 6 years before they made the playoffs?

Was or was not the rise of Golden State due to them finally trading away assets for Iggy, Brooks, Crawford, Murphy, Blake...all of which were turned into cap space to sign others in the following years?  In every case, its management of the cap, trading the future to capitalize on free agent or expiring contract stars that leads to the championship.  You build a base of young stars but then mortgage the hell out of the future for 2+ stars to pair with them.  See GS signing Durant, Pachulia, Rush, Barbosa, Livingston etc.  All this nonsense of growing your own is just nonsense.  They were crap until they started trading/signing their way up the West.

 

Trades[edit]

June 27, 2013
	To Golden State Warriors Draft rights to 30th pick Nemanja Nedović[1][2]	To Phoenix Suns Draft rights to 29th pick Archie Goodwin Malcolm Lee

July 10, 2013
	To Golden State Warriors Andre Iguodala[3] (from Denver) (sign and trade) Kevin Murphy (from Utah)	To Utah Jazz Andris Biedriņš (from Golden State) Richard Jefferson (from Golden State) Brandon Rush (from Golden State) 2014 & 2017 first-round draft picks (from Golden State) 2016 & 2017 second-round draft picks (from Golden State) 2018 second-round draft pick (from Denver) Cash considerations (from Golden State)	To Denver Nuggets Randy Foye (from Utah) (sign and trade) 2018 second-round draft pick (from Golden State)

January 15, 2014
	To Golden State Warriors Jordan Crawford[4] (from Boston) MarShon Brooks (from Boston)	To Boston Celtics Joel Anthony (from Miami) 2016 second-round pick (from Miami) Conditional first-round pick (from Philadelphia via Golden State)	To Miami Heat Toney Douglas (from Golden State)

February 19, 2014
	To Golden State Warriors Steve Blake[5]	To Los Angeles Lakers MarShon Brooks Kent Bazemore

You have to do both. The Hawks didn't have anything to trade away prior to the rebuild. They have to draft the talent first and that means being in the lottery to do so. But KB claims that the lottery is some magnetic field that won't let you out once you dip your toe in it and that doesn't have to be the case. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Lin thread - down the same tank rabbit hole. Good grief.

[Peoriabird]

What happened to my thread??? Hijacking terrorist all over the site!

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

What happened to my thread??? Hijacking terrorist all over the site!

Tried to clean it up but it is hard to split apart from a tanking discussion because you are asking whether we will be doing our best to win games this year or possibly manipulating lineups to lose more games and that is largely based on whether you think the team is going to tank or not.  

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

Tried to clean it up but it is hard to split apart from a tanking discussion because you are asking whether we will be doing our best to win games this year or possibly manipulating lineups to lose more games and that is largely based on whether you think the team is going to tank or not.  

So any mention of the roster and trying to win games will spiral down into a discussion about acquiring superstars and tanking?... Sorry

[AHF]

39 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So any mention of the roster and trying to win games will spiral down into a discussion about acquiring superstars and tanking?... Sorry

No apologies necessary - I wouldn't have tried to clean this up if I thought it was an inevitable downward spiral and I know where you are going with this.  Just saying that whether we try to win games or manipulate things to lose games goes back to tanking and some posters absolutely cannot help themselves from going all the way down the rabbit's hole and arguing the basic philosophy and history of tanking anytime a subject gets anywhere near that topic.  So it is hard to wall that off but I know that isn't where you wanted to thread to go so I've tried to expunge it.

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

No apologies necessary - I wouldn't have tried to clean this up if I thought it was an inevitable downward spiral and I know where you are going with this.  Just saying that whether we try to win games or manipulate things to lose games goes back to tanking and some posters absolutely cannot help themselves from going all the way down the rabbit's hole and arguing the basic philosophy and history of tanking anytime a subject gets anywhere near that topic.  So it is hard to wall that off but I know that isn't where you wanted to thread to go so I've tried to expunge it.

You mean a single poster. We all know who that is.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Sothron said:

You mean a single poster. We all know who that is.

I get sucked into too easily so I'm including myself in there.

[thecampster]

21 minutes ago, AHF said:

I get sucked into too easily so I'm including myself in there.

There's about 4 of us really...I just torpedo threads in short spurts, not as an Olympic Event.