Here is an article on Peachtree Hopps that attempts to explain the Lin trade

[kg01]

25 minutes ago, AHF said:

I get sucked into too easily so I'm including myself in there.

I'll happily serve as interim-mod if you decide to bann him and yourself.

Everything'll be just fine in your 'brief' absence ... juuuust fine .....

[EazyRoc]

10 hours ago, thecampster said:

Alrighty...I'll play....the 9 straight losing seasons was due to what then?

 

The 10 year playoff streak was due to "what"?

 

Does Miami make the finals without Lebron and Bosh?  Did Miami not trade away the farm to clear space to sign Lebron and Bosh?

The 2009–10 Miami Heat season was the 22nd season of the Miami Heat in the National Basketball Association (NBA). The Heat made the playoffs for the second straight year under Spoelstra. They failed to make it out of the first round once again as they were overpowered by a Boston Celtics squad that featured Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen in five games. Boston eventually lost in seven games to the Los Angeles Lakers in the NBA Finals. Following the season, the Heat would bring in LeBron James and Chris Bosh to join team captain Dwyane Wade.

"

June 23, 2010	To Oklahoma City Thunder----  Daequan Cook No. 18 Pick (Eric Bledsoe)	To Miami Heat---- No. 32nd Pick (Dexter Pittman)
June 24, 2010	To Oklahoma City Thunder---- No. 48 Pick (Latavious Williams)	To Miami Heat---- Future Second-Round Pick Cash Considerations
July 9, 2010	To Cleveland Cavaliers---- 2013 First-Round Pick 2015 First-Round Pick 2012 Second-Round Pick (Jae Crowder) Future Second-Round Pick Trade Exception	To Miami Heat----  LeBron James (sign and trade)
July 9, 2010	To Toronto Raptors---- Two 2011 First-Round Picks Trade Exception	To Miami Heat----  Chris Bosh (sign and trade)
July 12, 2010	To Minnesota Timberwolves----  Michael Beasley	To Miami Heat---- 2011 Second-Round Pick 2014 Second-Round Pick Cash Considerations

 

Was or was not the Golden State rebuild 6 years before they made the playoffs?

Was or was not the rise of Golden State due to them finally trading away assets for Iggy, Brooks, Crawford, Murphy, Blake...all of which were turned into cap space to sign others in the following years?  In every case, its management of the cap, trading the future to capitalize on free agent or expiring contract stars that leads to the championship.  You build a base of young stars but then mortgage the hell out of the future for 2+ stars to pair with them.  See GS signing Durant, Pachulia, Rush, Barbosa, Livingston etc.  All this nonsense of growing your own is just nonsense.  They were crap until they started trading/signing their way up the West.

 

Trades[edit]

June 27, 2013
	To Golden State Warriors Draft rights to 30th pick Nemanja Nedović[1][2]	To Phoenix Suns Draft rights to 29th pick Archie Goodwin Malcolm Lee

July 10, 2013
	To Golden State Warriors Andre Iguodala[3] (from Denver) (sign and trade) Kevin Murphy (from Utah)	To Utah Jazz Andris Biedriņš (from Golden State) Richard Jefferson (from Golden State) Brandon Rush (from Golden State) 2014 & 2017 first-round draft picks (from Golden State) 2016 & 2017 second-round draft picks (from Golden State) 2018 second-round draft pick (from Denver) Cash considerations (from Golden State)	To Denver Nuggets Randy Foye (from Utah) (sign and trade) 2018 second-round draft pick (from Golden State)

January 15, 2014
	To Golden State Warriors Jordan Crawford[4] (from Boston) MarShon Brooks (from Boston)	To Boston Celtics Joel Anthony (from Miami) 2016 second-round pick (from Miami) Conditional first-round pick (from Philadelphia via Golden State)	To Miami Heat Toney Douglas (from Golden State)

February 19, 2014
	To Golden State Warriors Steve Blake[5]	To Los Angeles Lakers MarShon Brooks Kent Bazemore

We lost 9 years straight because our roster wasn’t that good. Particularly we had a huge hole at PG.

We won 10 years straight because our roster was better (hole filled) and we upgraded our coach.

Of course Miami doesn’t make the finals without LeBron and Bosh. Let’s not forget that the only reason they went is because Wade was already there (He was drafted). They also wouldn’t have made the finals without Wade.

Golden State was crap until they balanced out their roster. They didn’t build their team with journeyman veterans. They ADDED them to their young drafted core. In addition, they significantly improved from a coaching standpoint.

 

[AUhawksfan]

Well, this article kind of confirms the head scratching around these parts about this deal:

https://www.ajc.com/blog/atlanta-hawks/hawks-add-high-character-jeremy-lin-continue-seek-trades-for-dennis-Schröder/z3obP48bsM2cAmA4U52FkO/

Looks like it could be awhile before we find a taker for Schröder.  We definitely lost the upper hand in negotiations, that's for sure.

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, AUhawksfan said:

Well, this article kind of confirms the head scratching around these parts about this deal:

https://www.ajc.com/blog/atlanta-hawks/hawks-add-high-character-jeremy-lin-continue-seek-trades-for-dennis-Schröder/z3obP48bsM2cAmA4U52FkO/

Looks like it could be awhile before we find a taker for Schröder.  We definitely lost the upper hand in negotiations, that's for sure.

I think we did that on draft night.

[thecampster]

5 hours ago, AUhawksfan said:

Well, this article kind of confirms the head scratching around these parts about this deal:

https://www.ajc.com/blog/atlanta-hawks/hawks-add-high-character-jeremy-lin-continue-seek-trades-for-dennis-Schröder/z3obP48bsM2cAmA4U52FkO/

Looks like it could be awhile before we find a taker for Schröder.  We definitely lost the upper hand in negotiations, that's for sure.

Well...here's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking they're going to wait until October/November when some top 15 team...every year....loses a point guard for the season and that's when they'll dangle either Schröder or Lin.

[Diesel]

On 7/13/2018 at 11:45 PM, Sothron said:

I just have to point out that over the course of our franchise history we've only ever signed two major free agents. Neither of them superstars. And frankly one of those two (Joe Johnson) was a speculative major signing that worked because Joe became the 2nd best SG in the NBA for about a six year stretch in Atlanta. The other major signing was Deke who was only effective on one end of the court.

I have absolutely zero confidence we will sign any major free agent in 2019. Look at the Sixers this offseason. They have literally the best situation in the NBA for an established star to go  to by having two young superstars and...they still got no one. No one. What hope do we have that even if Collins has a breakout year and Young has a good rookie year that we sign anyone?

I completely agree with you about our ownership being cheap as crap. They are barely at the salary minimum floor. It is just like how the A$G ran the Thrashers. The difference? The Thrashers had actual hockey superstar players and they still wouldn't pay them to keep them.

If Ressler and crew don't bring anyone, not even a Plan B guy like the former Millsap signing by Ferry, then we know we are in for a nightmare era until they sell the team.

I have to add some input here. 

Deke was great.   Even though he was thought to be only a rebounder and shotblocker, his effect on the overall team made us contenders.  Our problem was that we didn't have a GM who knew how to build a team.  He just thought that if you bring in good players that they would figure it out.   That's why when we got Big Dog, Theo, and Shareef... he was emboldened to put out the guarantee.  Nobody told him that his coached sucked at this level and that these guys wouldn't mesh.  He just saw 2 20/10 guys and a guy who could get 11-12 rpg and some blocks and said.. we're winners.

[Diesel]

The Lin signing means that we want:

• Mentoring. 
• High Character.
• Strong work ethic.

We paid so much for this one year because these are things that Dennis cannot or will not provide to the younguns.   In fact to be totally honest, Dennis may be a cancer in the lockerroom and the decision makers see that. 

 

[KB21]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

The Lin signing means that we want:

• Mentoring. 
• High Character.
• Strong work ethic.

We paid so much for this one year because these are things that Dennis cannot or will not provide to the younguns.   In fact to be totally honest, Dennis may be a cancer in the lockerroom and the decision makers see that. 

 

Absolutely, and I will give Travis some credit for this.  He drafted a point guard in the first round that will need mentoring, and therefore he is bringing in a veteran point guard that had some similar issues that Trae has coming into the league to mentor him.  It would have been nice if John Collins could have had Paul Millsap around to mentor him.

[AHF]

I think my blowback on this trade would be less if Schlenk hadn't literally told us he was going to use the cap space to get picks and then  simultaneously enabled the Nets to get a first.  The fact that he chose to pass on a first round pick to use the space to get an overpaid, over-injured vet who seems like a quality person and who played pretty well when healthy 3 seasons ago would make more sense to me if he had emphasized something like "we will look to add some quality veterans who can help us establish our culture."  With that messaging, I'd expect investment in a vet over picks and I'd sit there and nod that he did just what he promised.  Might agree or disagree but at least as a fan I understand the objective and watched him achieve it.  Instead, he told us that he would use the cap space for picks and then literally passed on a pick that was better (projected in the mid to late teens) than the non-Dallas picks he has acquired in trades (like the late first from Houston).

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think my blowback on this trade would be less if Schlenk hadn't literally told us he was going to use the cap space to get picks and then  simultaneously enabled the Nets to get a first.  The fact that he chose to pass on a first round pick to use the space to get an overpaid, over-injured vet who seems like a quality person and who played pretty well when healthy 3 seasons ago would make more sense to me if he had emphasized something like "we will look to add some quality veterans who can help us establish our culture."  With that messaging, I'd expect investment in a vet over picks and I'd sit there and nod that he did just what he promised.  Might agree or disagree but at least as a fan I understand the objective and watched him achieve it.  Instead, he told us that he would use the cap space for picks and then literally passed on a pick that was better (projected in the mid to late teens) than the non-Dallas picks he has acquired in trades (like the late first from Houston).

Well said.

[EazyRoc]

20 hours ago, AHF said:

I get sucked into too easily so I'm including myself in there.

This is me too. I have no self control. -.-

[macdaddy]

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think my blowback on this trade would be less if Schlenk hadn't literally told us he was going to use the cap space to get picks and then  simultaneously enabled the Nets to get a first.  The fact that he chose to pass on a first round pick to use the space to get an overpaid, over-injured vet who seems like a quality person and who played pretty well when healthy 3 seasons ago would make more sense to me if he had emphasized something like "we will look to add some quality veterans who can help us establish our culture."  With that messaging, I'd expect investment in a vet over picks and I'd sit there and nod that he did just what he promised.  Might agree or disagree but at least as a fan I understand the objective and watched him achieve it.  Instead, he told us that he would use the cap space for picks and then literally passed on a pick that was better (projected in the mid to late teens) than the non-Dallas picks he has acquired in trades (like the late first from Houston).

Well.... the most recent thing TS said was "we only have 2 PGs" and "our free agency is going to be about trades".   So last week he wasn't talking about acquiring picks for garbage.  He was talking about the need for another PG and about acquiring useful talent through trades.   He basically signed Lin to a one year deal for $12.5 million in free agency.   Not saying it's a great move but it's exactly what he indicated last week.   

[AUhawksfan]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

The Lin signing means that we want:

• Mentoring. 
• High Character.
• Strong work ethic.

We paid so much for this one year because these are things that Dennis cannot or will not provide to the younguns.   In fact to be totally honest, Dennis may be a cancer in the lockerroom and the decision makers see that. 

 

I tend to agree but that also makes this situation even more awkward since it seems clear we want to get rid of Dennis and we're having a hard time doing that now that we don't have any negotiating power.

At this point I think having Dennis linger around until the start of the season could be a problem.

[macdaddy]

9 minutes ago, AUhawksfan said:

I tend to agree but that also makes this situation WEeven more awkward since it seems clear we want to get rid of Dennis and we're having a hard time doing that now that we don't have any negotiating power.

At this point I think having Dennis linger around until the start of the season could be a problem.

We have to remember that they are communicating with Dennis.   And I'm guessing the message is that "Hey, we are looking at trades but if we go into the season with  you that's great because we'll have a ton of backcourt talent and possibly we can move you at the deadline once your court case is settled.   We are in a multi year rebuild and will do our best to get you someplace where you can compete in the playoffs".   Dennis will know that the better he plays, the less trouble he makes, then the more likely he attracts interest from good teams. 

[KB21]

Just now, macdaddy said:

We have to remember that they are communicating with Dennis.   And I'm guessing the message is that "Hey, we are looking at trades but if we go into the season with  you that's great because we'll have a ton of backcourt talent and possibly we can move you at the deadline once your court case is settled.   We are in a multi year rebuild and will do our best to get you someplace where you can compete in the playoffs".   Dennis will know that the better he plays, the less trouble he makes, then the more likely he attracts interest from good teams. 

All the while they are hoping that he is convicted of a felony, which would allow them to void his contract.

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

All the while they are hoping that he is convicted of a felony, which would allow them to void his contract.

Mike Scott admitted to having class A narcotic and got off (rightly so since he was racially profiled but still).   Dennis just needs to find the right amount of money to make this go away (sadly).  

[AHF]

15 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Well.... the most recent thing TS said was "we only have 2 PGs" and "our free agency is going to be about trades".   So last week he wasn't talking about acquiring picks for garbage.  He was talking about the need for another PG and about acquiring useful talent through trades.   He basically signed Lin to a one year deal for $12.5 million in free agency.   Not saying it's a great move but it's exactly what he indicated last week.   

Yes but it is the pairing of that with the Nets using the cap space we helped them create to get a first that it tough to stomach.  He made it clear that his overarching philosophy was to use the space to get picks and then he passed on a good pick.  His comments to me from last week read along the lines that we would make trades to get some people under contract in lieu of signing someone from the FA pool.  I didn't see it as a shift to his basic strategic decision to pursue first round picks so it still took me by surprise when we passed on a nice first round pick to get our new third PG.

[KB21]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

Yes but it is the pairing of that with the Nets using the cap space we helped them create to get a first that it tough to stomach.  He made it clear that his overarching philosophy was to use the space to get picks and then he passed on a good pick.  His comments to me from last week read along the lines that we would make trades to get some people under contract in lieu of signing someone from the FA pool.  I didn't see it as a shift to his basic strategic decision to pursue first round picks so it still took me by surprise when we passed on a nice first round pick to get our new third PG.

I suspect this comes down to Ressler overruling the front office when it comes to taking on long term bad money.

[JayBirdHawk]

33 minutes ago, KB21 said:

All the while they are hoping that he is convicted of a felony, which would allow them to void his contract.

Convicted? He hasnt been yet charged with a felony. The current charge is a misdemeanor. How long do you think that court case will take? The Morris Twins were arrested Jan 2015, charged with assault in April 2015, Found not guilty in October 2017. Almost 2 years.

Dennis' case is 10 months old.

 

29 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Mike Scott admitted to having class A narcotic and got off (rightly so since he was racially profiled but still).   Dennis just needs to find the right amount of money to make this go away (sadly).  

Yep, the latest blurb was that he has met with the victim twice to resolve the case. Buds DUI took 3 years to be resolved. 

Dennis could probably play out his contract before the gets resolved with the slow as molasses justice system.

[JayBirdHawk]

29 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I suspect this comes down to Ressler overruling the front office when it comes to taking on long term bad money.

Except both Faried and Arthur are also expiring, so no long term money.