Can we please bench Prince and start Bembry? Damn!

[KB21]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

I disagree it’s not a knee jerk reaction...I don’t give a shit if prince is making these iso type of  shots or not ! the point is he’s not playing within the offense at all since the season started. 

I want him out the lineup for Bembry cause Bembry is actually trying to play within the offense. I’m not worried about the shots dropping or the W/L column I just want to see this team play like a damn team and when a player gets hot WITHIN THE SYSTEM...feed that player!

 

a knee jerk reaction is yanking Trae out the lineup cause his shots aren’t always falling yet he’s trying his best to run the offense...Prince on the other hand is just jacking up shots! No flow whatsoever.

Taurean is doing exactly what the coaching staff and management have told him to do.

[JayBirdHawk]

20 games last year - anomoly.

Last 3 games  - now this is who he is.

New Coach, Different System.

The ups and downs of young players in a rebuilding season.

Prince is doing exactly what Schlenck encouraged him to do to end last season (I'll try and find the article) and apparently what Coach Pierce is asking him to do right now. It's a work in progress.

In Bud's offense, Prince was drafted for more catch and shoot offense.  Schlenk wants DPS - Dribble, Pass, Shooters - which is why and I'm assuming, they are encouraging Prince to develop that aspect of his game.

This season is about devloping these young players, helping them expand their games.  I'm judging this season based on my expectations for improvement over the course of the season, not just 7 games.

 

 

[JTB]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Taurean is doing exactly what the coaching staff and management have told him to do.

 

43 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

20 games last year - anomoly.

Last 3 games  - now this is who he is.

New Coach, Different System.

The ups and downs of young players in a rebuilding season.

Prince is doing exactly what Schlenck encouraged him to do to end last season (I'll try and find the article) and apparently what Coach Pierce is asking him to do right now. It's a work in progress.

In Bud's offense, Prince was drafted for more catch and shoot offense.  Schlenk wants DPS - Dribble, Pass, Shooters - which is why and I'm assuming, they are encouraging Prince to develop that aspect of his game.

This season is about devloping these young players, helping them expand their games.  I'm judging this season based on my expectations for improvement over the course of the season, not just 7 games.

 

 

Dribble, Pass, Shoot....Dribble, Pass, Shoot....Dribble, Pass, Shoot

 

if Prince were actually doing all 3 I wouldn’t be complaining. Schlenk wants Dribble, Pass, Shoot but Prince so far in every game including the ones he shot well only dribbles and shoots.

i understand the learning curve @JayBirdHawk I’m not the one that need to be told that,  That would be @KB21....I’m more than sure that schlenk meant Dribble, Pass, Shoot within the offensive system LP is running and not this iso dribble, shoot, and only pass when you see that you’re trapped and can’t get your own shot off .

all good though please keep defending him. I hope I’m wrong about him as the season goes on but with this new mentality (and it’s not a mentality of dribble, pass, shoot) this dude is flat out ass.

you do not need more games to see where prince mindset is.

[KB21]

6 minutes ago, JTB said:

 

Dribble, Pass, Shoot....Dribble, Pass, Shoot....Dribble, Pass, Shoot

 

if Prince were actually doing all 3 I wouldn’t be complaining. Schlenk wants Dribble, Pass, Shoot but Prince so far in every game including the ones he shot well only dribbles and shoots.

i understand the learning curve @JayBirdHawk I’m not the one that need to be told that,  That would be @KB21....I’m more than sure that schlenk meant Dribble, Pass, Shoot within the offensive system LP is running and not this iso dribble, shoot, and only pass when you see that you’re trapped and can’t get your own shot off .

all good though please keep defending him. I hope I’m wrong about him as the season goes on but with this new mentality (and it’s not a mentality of dribble, pass, shoot) this dude is flat out ass.

you do not need more games to see where prince mindset is.

You need to realize that the Hawks are not running much of an offensive system under Lloyd Pierce, and that the isolation sets are by design.  

[JTB]

32 minutes ago, KB21 said:

You need to realize that the Hawks are not running much of an offensive system under Lloyd Pierce, and that the isolation sets are by design.  

How the hell is that true when only prince is the one who’s stopping the ball movement the most out of all our players?

im not expecting perfection and I know there will be many mistakes but saying the staff is designing isolation sets isn’t true. If a player ISO’s it’s by their decision.

 crazy ass statement to make when we are seeing guys set picks and run off screens.

prince is just a selfish ass player trying to make a name for himself rather than get his team involved. You need to rewatch the games. 

Ball movement stops with Prince, Dorsey when he actually plays, and Bazemore but he’s actually getting a lot better at not doing it like the first 2 games or so.

[benhillboy]

Damn, I hate that this has turned into an “I hate Prince” thread but hey.  

Looking back at internet outlet draft breakdowns and what not, they’re pretty funky.  This 12 column evaluation at http://www.nbadraft.net/players/taurean-prince was all off.  As it stands today his size and jumpshot should be 8, everything else lowered.  I had no idea he has a near 7” wingspan.  Couldn’t find any vertical jump numbers but I know he can’t be any higher than mid 30’s today.  No high impact plays to be made on his end.

Looking back at that draft though, my God.  I can’t fault Bud and Wilcox for selecting him 13 at all.  Only 2 players were taken afterwards who are clearly better in Brogdon and Dejonte Murray.  LeVert is having his little time to shine just like Taurean did, gotta see much more.

[macdaddy]

Unproven head coach, new offense run by a rookie, 3 new starters.   Can we give these guys some games to adjust.  I mean geez.   

I mean you can focus on a slightly down shooting percentage and increased turnovers and just ignore that points, assists, rebounds, steals, and free throw attempts (shooting 95%) are all up.   

I'd rather have Prince (and all of them) trying to show what they can do and improving than just standing at the 3 point line waiting on someone to pass them the ball.   

[hazer]

Fresh Printz will be fine, he’s learning some new skeelz he ain’t quite mastered yet (cue “waa waaaaa” sound effect). Once Dedmon Walking and J-Bap are back full time, he won’t have to “press” as much and it’ll come to him a little better. Then again I just wrote in another thread we should draft Barrett or Reddish and use the FA money on a max SF, which would relegate Taurean to a bench role next year. Wouldn’t be a horrible idea, Printz and ‘Dre 1-2 punch off the bench is weaponry.

[deester11]

20 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Unproven head coach, new offense run by a rookie, 3 new starters.   Can we give these guys some games to adjust.  I mean geez.   

I mean you can focus on a slightly down shooting percentage and increased turnovers and just ignore that points, assists, rebounds, steals, and free throw attempts (shooting 95%) are all up.   

I'd rather have Prince (and all of them) trying to show what they can do and improving than just standing at the 3 point line waiting on someone to pass them the ball.   

Don't call it hate.  At least for me, but he deserves some of the criticism he's gotten lately on the heels of his "Catch and Jack" heroic ball playing.  I get the offense can be offensive but is the HC going to reel him in somewhat?  I think that'll help his game tremendously.

[Watchman]

Here's an idea.  Tell Pierce to have a talk with Prince, and tell him that if he continues to force things and  to throw the ball away, he will be coming off the bench.  Tell him that he is not expected to carry the team.  Have the same conversation with Bazemore.

[JTB]

5 minutes ago, deester11 said:

Don't call it hate.  At least for me, but he deserves some of the criticism he's gotten lately on the heels of his "Catch and Jack" heroic ball playing.  I get the offense can be offensive but is the HC going to reel him in somewhat?  I think that'll help his game tremendously.

Exactly! It’s not hate that a few guys but mainly prince is being criticized for not involving his team cause he won’t pass the ball.

What I don’t understand is all this new coach, new learning curve bullshit! Like ok but I didn’t know prince had to unlearn heroic basketball...where the hell did he learn heroic basketball? Last I checked he wasn’t a star so why is he even attempting heroic basketball? Hell he wasn’t even a top 5 draft pick and is barely a lotto pick and he has this hero ball mindset in the 3rd season of his career!

None of our other players are playing hero ball like Prince including our rookies who seems to understand ball sharing better than 3 year vet prince at the current time.

 

.....RIDICULOUS....we have members saying oh he in a new system with a new coach ...oh ok so basically he has to unlearn hero ball? Well that’s interesting as no one else is going through this phase of unlearning hero ball.

i simply just want to see prince involve himself more in the offense and stop trying to take over every possession just because one of his teammates pass him the ball. 

 

[macdaddy]

If you remember Travis himself told Prince last year to start asserting himself on the offensive end and not just be a shooter.  I assume that message hasn't changed.   

[JTB]

3 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Here's an idea.  Tell Pierce to have a talk with Prince, and tell him that if he continues to force things and  to throw the ball away, he will be coming off the bench.  Tell him that he is not expected to carry the team.  Have the same conversation with Bazemore.

Thank you! Glad someone gets it! This is not a learning curve in result of a new system! This is a “he needs to be disciplined” phase and told that he is NOT the star ....yet!...you can work to be the star but right now you are not...the....damn....star!

bazemore knows better but he has calmed down quite a bit compared to Prince.

people on here seems to think I’m bashing prince skills but honestly I’m just bashing his new mentality of “Im the man”...I believe he can still be good but Pierce need to discipline his ass and calm him down .

[JTB]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

If you remember Travis himself told Prince last year to start asserting himself on the offensive end and not just be a shooter.  I assume that message hasn't changed.   

Oh so this means heavy isolation whenever I touch the ball? Ok well if everyone truly believes that this means isolation then posters like @KB21 who everyone disagrees with has been right about Schlenk this whole time.

i for one don’t believe “assert yourself” means prince go be James harden, Allen iverson, Kobe Bryant...

[macdaddy]

Just now, JTB said:

Oh so this means heavy isolation whenever I touch the ball? Ok well if everyone truly believes that this means isolation then posters like @KB21 who everyone disagrees with has been right about Schlenk this whole time.

i for one don’t believe “assert yourself” means prince go be James harden, Allen iverson, Kobe Bryant...

So your argument is that Prince goes heavy iso EVERYTIME he touches the ball?   I don't think we're having a logical discussion.  

[JTB]

53 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

So your argument is that Prince goes heavy iso EVERYTIME he touches the ball?   I don't think we're having a logical discussion.  

Most of the time prince is looking for his shot only offense it’s not an argument I’m watching the same games as you 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Unproven head coach, new offense run by a rookie, 3 new starters.   Can we give these guys some games to adjust.  I mean geez.   

I mean you can focus on a slightly down shooting percentage and increased turnovers and just ignore that points, assists, rebounds, steals, and free throw attempts (shooting 95%) are all up.   

I'd rather have Prince (and all of them) trying to show what they can do and improving than just standing at the 3 point line waiting on someone to pass them the ball.   

 

1 hour ago, hazer said:

Fresh Printz will be fine, he’s learning some new skeelz he ain’t quite mastered yet (cue “waa waaaaa” sound effect). Once Dedmon Walking and J-Bap are back full time, he won’t have to “press” as much and it’ll come to him a little better. Then again I just wrote in another thread we should draft Barrett or Reddish and use the FA money on a max SF, which would relegate Taurean to a bench role next year. Wouldn’t be a horrible idea, Printz and ‘Dre 1-2 punch off the bench is weaponry.

 

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

If you remember Travis himself told Prince last year to start asserting himself on the offensive end and not just be a shooter.  I assume that message hasn't changed.   

 

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

So your argument is that Prince goes heavy iso EVERYTIME he touches the ball?   I don't think we're having a logical discussion.  

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, JTB said:

 

Dribble, Pass, Shoot....Dribble, Pass, Shoot....Dribble, Pass, Shoot

 

if Prince were actually doing all 3 I wouldn’t be complaining. Schlenk wants Dribble, Pass, Shoot but Prince so far in every game including the ones he shot well only dribbles and shoots.

i understand the learning curve @JayBirdHawk I’m not the one that need to be told that,  That would be @KB21....I’m more than sure that schlenk meant Dribble, Pass, Shoot within the offensive system LP is running and not this iso dribble, shoot, and only pass when you see that you’re trapped and can’t get your own shot off .

all good though please keep defending him. I hope I’m wrong about him as the season goes on but with this new mentality (and it’s not a mentality of dribble, pass, shoot) this dude is flat out ass.

you do not need more games to see where prince mindset is.

Schlenk said he wants guys that have or can develop DPS skills. The only way to improve is by doing. Has Prince been forcing the issuing and doing too much the last 3 games, Yes. It's up to Lloyd to reign him in if he's going off script, so far Lloyd seems ok with it since Prince has not been benched.

You get that Prince started 'trying to develop' those skills the last 20 games of last year at Schlenks's urging, right?  Seven games into the season, it's still a work in progress and in a developmental season. 

But again, it's the 7th game of 82.

These reactions are tatamount to throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[AtLaS]

This is an overreaction IMO.  We have a young team with noone who can really create (Len, Vince, and Dedmon are starters for pete's sake) and a 24 second shot clock.  That is going to lead to some forcing on offense.  It's why Trae and Prince have both taken some terrible shots as they are our best two at doing this.  When Baze is in the game he forces it also.  

Prince is likely being told to push the action.  

I think Prince would be great on a better team, but on a crappy one it's going to hurt his efficiency.

Doesn't really bother me as we aren't winning this season anyway.  I think he's a great long term piece for us.

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

This is an overreaction IMO.  We have a young team with noone who can really create (Len, Vince, and Dedmon are starters for pete's sake) and a 24 second shot clock.  That is going to lead to some forcing on offense.  It's why Trae and Prince have both taken some terrible shots as they are our best two at doing this.  When Baze is in the game he forces it also.  

Prince is likely being told to push the action.  

I think Prince would be great on a better team, but on a crappy one it's going to hurt his efficiency.

Doesn't really bother me as we aren't winning this season anyway.  I think he's a great long term piece for us.

. 

Long term piece, a solid starter in a lineup that features stars in Trae, a soon to be selected dynamic wing/SG with a handke, along with John Collins. (That's my hope anyway).