Popular Post NBASupes Posted January 9, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, kg01 said: I don't think we'll ever get to a point where defensive "analytics" don't produce flawed or incomplete results. It just doesn't lend itself well to it. The larger issue I have is that people just assume, because it's a nimber, it must be right. The shear laziness with which people quote "analytics" makes my head spin. Can we just watch the freaking game? We know what's good and what's not. Why we gotta try to make it all math? It's like, since most people can't actually do it, we're trying to athletically dumb it down so we can all participate. And I went to Georgia Tech, for cryin' out loud. I'm s'posed to love nimbers! You people ruin it for me. There are a lot of defensive stats out there. There isn't one good one that's conclusive. You gotta look at them all. The poster who always trashing Cam that said he is not a good defender and used just two stats is a grade A terrible Basketball analyst. There are so many metrics out there plus the eye test. To use a metric that generally sees Russell Westbrook as an great defender is grade A poo. Cam is an excellent rookie defender considering his role and responsibility and already a decent rotational wing who had improved monthly on that end with more experience. To say he isn't just losing all credibility to me but some posters never had any in the first place. There are so many metrics out there, if there is one thing I enjoy about @TheNorthCydeRises, his data is well thought out and he uses the resources available to him. I wish some other posters would do so as well. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg01 Posted January 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, NBASupes said: There are a lot of defensive stats out there. There isn't one good one that's conclusive. You gotta look at them all. The poster who always trashing Cam that said he is not a good defender and used just two stats is a grade A terrible Basketball analyst. There are so many metrics out there plus the eye test. To use a metric that generally sees Russell Westbrook as an great defender is grade A poo. Cam is an excellent rookie defender considering his role and responsibility and already a decent rotational wing who had improved monthly on that end with more experience. To say he isn't just losing all credibility to me but some posters never had any in the first place. There are so many metrics out there, if there is one thing I enjoy about @TheNorthCydeRises, his data is well thought out and he uses the resources available to him. I wish some other posters would do so as well. There's just so much more to it than just taking some number - that folks have no idea how it is calculated or what's actually in it - and just comparing players with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators macdaddy Posted January 9, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 I didn't think saying Cam was a very good defender would be this controversial. There's a reason he's out there and it ain't shooting. As far as whether he's already better than Bembry, I admit that could be unfair to Bembry but think about it. Bembry can't shoot. Only reason he has better shooting percentages is he just doesn't shoot most of the time. Why they guard him at all is a puzzle to me because you know he's driving. I'd say ball handling they are about equal. Bembry right now finishes better at the rim but he still finishes horribly at the rim. And I'd say defense is a toss up, I know Bembry can be tenacious but he can also be not very good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Atlantaholic Posted January 9, 2020 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 minute ago, macdaddy said: I didn't think saying Cam was a very good defender would be this controversial. There's a reason he's out there and it ain't shooting. As far as whether he's already better than Bembry, I admit that could be unfair to Bembry but think about it. Bembry can't shoot. Only reason he has better shooting percentages is he just doesn't shoot most of the time. Why they guard him at all is a puzzle to me because you know he's driving. I'd say ball handling they are about equal. Bembry right now finishes better at the rim but he still finishes horribly at the rim. And I'd say defense is a toss up, I know Bembry can be tenacious but he can also be not very good. Well consider that Bembry, who can't shoot threes, can't finish, and can't shoot free throws has a TS% that is 8% points higher than Cams. Cam is at 42% and Bembry is at 50%. That's an incredible difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators macdaddy Posted January 9, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said: Well consider that Bembry, who can't shoot threes, can't finish, and can't shoot free throws has a TS% that is 8% points higher than Cams. Cam is at 42% and Bembry is at 50%. That's an incredible difference. Again, Bembry just passes up open shots. You miss 100% of shots you don't take. Cam isn't passing them up much because coaches are telling him to take them. Bembry has taken about a third the number of 3s as Cam and is shooting them 4% worse than Cam. When all your shots are at the rim your TS% better be really good. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators macdaddy Posted January 9, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 Bembry has made 15 shots all year outside of the lane. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Atlantaholic Posted January 9, 2020 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, macdaddy said: Bembry has made 15 shots all year outside of the lane. 11 minutes ago, macdaddy said: Again, Bembry just passes up open shots. You miss 100% of shots you don't take. Cam isn't passing them up much because coaches are telling him to take them. Bembry has taken about a third the number of 3s as Cam and is shooting them 4% worse than Cam. When all your shots are at the rim your TS% better be really good. So Bembry is worse because he passes up shots he can't make while Cam does not? Gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Atlantaholic Posted January 9, 2020 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 The only thing I give Cam over Bembry, is that when he is on the floor there is at least a sliver of hope that he will have a nice stretch... even if most times it does not happen. When Bembry comes in we all know what we are getting. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators macdaddy Posted January 9, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said: So Bembry is worse because he passes up shots he can't make while Cam does not? Gotcha. Well yes. Pretty much. Except Cam can actually make them. It doesn't make Bembry bad to know his weaknesses but when comparing the two players it's important. I mean who's a better shooter Dwight or Cam? What are their TS%? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg01 Posted January 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 Safe to say Bembry's not getting any better than what he is. Cam likely is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, kg01 said: analytics As a whole..offense and defense. Just gimme the eye test on guys who wanna take other guys lunches...I want them! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 Analytics are for nerd that can hack it! Couch GM’s if you will... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Atlantaholic Posted January 9, 2020 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, macdaddy said: Well yes. Pretty much. Except Cam can actually make them. It doesn't make Bembry bad to know his weaknesses but when comparing the two players it's important. I mean who's a better shooter Dwight or Cam? What are their TS%? You can say Cam is a better outside shooter than Bembry, and that is fair enough. though what does that prove exactly? Cam is a better shooter than Dwight, probably. But we can't know for sure because Dwight is smart enough to shoot inside where he is a an 85% scorer. Cam taking a boat load of threes and hitting 25% of them is a killer to our offense, not a plus. Bembry deciding to shoot inside where he scores 60% of the time, instead of outside where he makes it 21% is smarter than whatever Cam is doing. Cam is shooting 54% from 0-3 feet which is extremely poor for a tall wing, but it's WAAAAY more effective than his production from three point range. If he was smart he would try scoring down low more often. 6 minutes ago, kg01 said: Safe to say Bembry's not getting any better than what he is. Cam likely is. Agreed, that's the only reason I prefer Cam out there. But to say he is better than Bembry right now is wrong. As bad as Bembry is, it's just wrong. Edited January 9, 2020 by Atlantaholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, kg01 said: Safe to say Bembry's not getting any better than what he is. Cam likely is. Bembry can get better, he's only in year 4. Shooting wise was always going to be a challenge for Bembry. His projected career percentage in college was 32.5% and in his last year of college was 26.6%. Right now, it's 21.8%. To add, his career totals are 26.8%. In college 25.8% of his shots in his Jr year were threes. In the NBA, threes account for 26.4% of his shots. It's fair to say, he still has a chance to reach his expected 32.5%. But with critical issues to his shooting form, it's difficult to think he will reach this measure. Reddish shooting wise is shooting 25.8% from three. 45.1% of his shots are threes. In his one year of college, Reddish shot 33.3% from three. 61.8% of his shots were threes. 37.9% is Cam projected NBA career mark. It's fair to say Cam can reach his metrics considering he is a rookie. Depending on his playmaking and how the rest of Cam's offensive game fills out, he has a chance to be either a 3/D stud or elite two-way wing. Bembry likely from the best of his metrics is pretty much on the mid-end career path of his metrics. His defense translated. Sadly, his playmaking didn't. Bembry was never a great prospect. His talent level wasn't high either. So much of Cam's offensive upside is based on three point shooting like DeVante Graham. If he is shooting at a great rate and percentage, his metrics will be off the chart: https://web.archive.org/web/20181202165819/http://www.tankathon.com:80/players/cam-reddish If he is shooting them solidly then it's pretty good and a lock for 3/D: https://web.archive.org/web/20181225084251/http://www.tankathon.com:80/players/cam-reddish If he is shooting them poorly them you got this season: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reddica01.html Cam has a chance to be an elite player but his three point shot is CRITICAL! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators macdaddy Posted January 9, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 33 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said: But to say he is better than Bembry right now is wrong. As bad as Bembry is, it's just wrong. I don't know. If i'm putting the best players on the floor from my current hawks roster I put Cam out there over Bembry even now. There are some differences for sure. Bembry is more consistent, Cam has more facets to his game. Both are just ok at this point. Beating a dead horse at this point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 minute ago, macdaddy said: I don't know. If i'm putting the best players on the floor from my current hawks roster I put Cam out there over Bembry even now. There are some differences for sure. Bembry is more consistent, Cam has more facets to his game. Both are just ok at this point. Beating a dead horse at this point. Bembry is better. Cam is more talented. Bembry is technically more impactful than all of our wings this year but we all know why Bembry isn't a starter. He is inconsistent, a terrible shooter on all levels, has tunnel vision and has no floor spacing ability. Reddish in general is a great spacer. Bembry lack of scoring in the half court drags down the others. His man likes to leave him open. Bembry does most of his damage offensively in transition. One of our best transition offensive players only behind Trae, Jones(finisher), and John Collins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 Ya I don’t care anymore I just want reps. I want good reps though don’t launch dumb shots but we need to give these guys some more looks. The painful part of that is less Trae which I’ve enjoyed more than any other Hawks since 93.. so..there’s that side of it. Trae volume vs developing Hunt/Cam 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 minute ago, NBASupes said: Reddish We get a decent big and Cam production skies ...yup spacer needs room to get that space. But no bs bigs let’s stay the course. 6-18 month big signing plan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EazyRoc Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 Boy when y’all gonna realize Cam just can’t shoot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg01 Posted January 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 12 minutes ago, Spud2nique said: Ya I don’t care anymore I just want reps. I want good reps though don’t launch dumb shots but we need to give these guys some more looks. The painful part of that is less Trae which I’ve enjoyed more than any other Hawks since 93.. so..there’s that side of it. Trae volume vs developing Hunt/Cam I think we all understand the team will be so much better when Trae doesn't have to go nuclear for us to win. We don't get to that point without developing our wangs. Gotta take our medicine at some point. 3 minutes ago, EazyRoc said: Boy when y’all gonna realize Cam just can’t shoot You hate us don't you, eazy? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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