[Winter 2020] Woj Rumor: Drummmmmnd to ATL talks happening

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Horford's

 

[Buzzard]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Is Al really trending down? He isn't used correctly on offense and yet still has a WAR of nearly 3. 

Even in Boston his PPG and rebounds were going down. Given how weak Boston was on the glass last season there is not much of a excuse in that regard. Who was stealing his boards? Boston was 8th in 2017/18 in total rebounding and dropped to 22nd in 2018/19.

I think Horford is still a top flight passer for a big but he is not the rebounder he once was.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Buzzard

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

I think it's a combination.  He's definitely slowed due to age but he's also being poorly used by an awful head coach who keeps getting a pass because people like his stupid accent and because they feel bad that they let him lose through their tanking years.

From the games I've seen, defensively, he still looks like Al. Offensively, they are using like stretch 5 when he is really a playmaking 5 who can run every action. Philly limits him which impacts his biggest offensive strength, versatility. 

[macdaddy]

Just now, NBASupes said:

From the games I've seen, defensively, he still looks like Al. Offensively, they are using like stretch 5 when he is really a playmaking 5 who can run every action. Philly limits him which impacts his biggest offensive strength, versatility. 

They already have a playmaking 5: Simmons.

[NBASupes]

32 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Even in Boston his PPG and rebounds were going down. Given how weak Boston was on the glass last season there is not much of a excuse in that regard. Who was stealing his boards? Boston was 8th in 2017/18 in total rebounding and dropped to 22nd in 2018/19.

I think Horford is still a top flight passer for a big but he is not the rebounder he once was.

His impact was still exceptional in Boston. Rated in the top 5 of all centers in most categories in terms of winning metrics. Raw stats hasn't been Al's thing in years and don't expect it to change as he is older. 

I see a player who isn't as good as he was in Atlanta but I still see a top 5 NBA center. Even for Philly, he makes tremendous defensive impact overall being a net positive on offense. That's not easy to do when you are miscasted

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

They already have a playmaking 5: Simmons.

Simmons is a difficult read. He is a defensive 3/4. Offensively, he can play multiple positions but his lack of shooting makes him a 4 but he plays into Embiid space. He is a tough piece to fit next to Joel 

[Buzzard]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

His impact was still exceptional in Boston. Rated in the top 5 of all centers in most categories in terms of winning metrics. Raw stats hasn't been Al's thing in years and don't expect it to change as he is older. 

I see a player who isn't as good as he was in Atlanta but I still see a top 5 NBA center. Even for Philly, he makes tremendous defensive impact overall being a net positive on offense. That's not easy to do when you are miscasted

I have zero problems with Al's efficiency; which is why I did not say to much about his offense. But 6 - 7 boards a game is not what we need or many other teams.

He could be a great fit on a outstanding rebounding team. That is not us by any stretch of the imagination is what I am saying. I think this is what the 76ers saw also but its not shown up in the win column for them. Embiid goes out for any games and they look very much like a treadmill competitor.

[macdaddy]

Yeah.  I"ll admit i never wanted Al back for my own grudgy reasons.  At this point i don't care that much but just don't see him as a good fit for our offense.  

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I have zero problems with Al's efficiency; which is why I did not say to much about his offense. But 6 - 7 boards a game is not what we need or many other teams.

He could be a great fit on a outstanding rebounding team. That is not us by any stretch of the imagination is what I am saying. I think this is what the 76ers saw also but its not shown up in the win column for them. Embiid goes out for any games and they look very much like a treadmill competitor.

I always felt y'all overvalued rebounding and still do. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Quote

An NBA executive told The Athletic that he believes a trade for Drummond doesn’t make much sense for the Hawks and smells like panic from the ownership group in an attempt to not finish with the league’s worst record.....

Before the season began, owner Tony Ressler spoke with a few reporters about the state of the franchise and how this past offseason was as peaceful as it could have been because he had learned from some of his previous mistakes while in charge of the team, like bringing in Dwight Howard. But one quote that was telling with the Hawks now involved with Drummond is how fans are inherently impatient while waiting for success.

“I haven’t met a fan who is less patient than me,” Ressler said in October. “Now, I’m also trying to take the advice of people. I do think I understand basketball and understand the NBA, but building a team and trying to build a contender and being patient in the process is not my forte, and I am desperately trying — and I think successfully — listening to others who are better at it than I am.”

A trade for Drummond would be Ressler and the Hawks’ front office exhibiting impatience. If the Hawks really wanted him, they have the cap space to offer him a max contract this summer after Drummond declines his $28.6 million player option for next season, which is expected to happen. In theory, the Hawks present one of the best situations Drummond could find himself in next season because of the money they could offer, and he’d have the ability to thrive in the pick-and-roll with Trae Young, who’s one of the NBA’s best passers. Because of the $70-plus million in cap space the Hawks are projected to have this summer, Drummond even could recommend another free agent he would want to play with to the front office to sweeten the deal.

For the Hawks, it’s not necessarily the best fit to have a starting front court of Drummond and John Collins — two big men whose best skill is throwing down lobs. 

There’s no question that Drummond would be a massive talent upgrade over Len, Jones and Fernando and significantly would help the Hawks’ rebounding problems that have plagued them all season. 

The Hawks have the expiring contracts to offer the Pistons to match Drummond’s salary in a trade. Chandler Parsons’ $25 million salary alone would satisfy the money Atlanta would need to send Detroit in exchange for Drummond’s $27 million salary. Brooklyn’s lottery-protected first-round pick, which Atlanta owns, likely would be the main asset attached to Parsons. The Hawks would have to have some verbal agreement with Drummond and his representation in place that he will re-sign with the team this summer if assets like a first-round pick are going to be traded for a half-season of his services.

Improving the center position needs to be and is a focus for the front office. Trading for half of a season of Drummond and then likely having to sign him to a maximum contract this summer should not be the decision this franchise should make at this time. 

 

 

[JTB]

28 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Simmons is a difficult read. He is a defensive 3/4. Offensively, he can play multiple positions but his lack of shooting makes him a 4 but he plays into Embiid space. He is a tough piece to fit next to Joel 

This topic will come up and probably soon especially if we don’t trade for Drummond so I want to ask you ....

Do you like Simmons with this young core as it currently is ? .....of course trading for him we’d probably have to get rid of someone from the young core, do you do that?

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

I heard things about Tony that I prefer not to share. Not bad things at all but just between me and my guy. From what he said, the Hawks have a process and they have full trust in TS to carry it out. But like so many on here, the Luka/Trae bullshit is real even with Tony. He sees Luka and wants to give Trae the tools but TS has a process. 

The plan from what I gotten a month ago was Trae was going to graduate in 2020 but he graduated a lot earlier than expected.

Kevin - 2019-20

John already graduated. 

Hunter - 2020-21 

Cam - 2021-2022, the plan was he would be our best player by this time frame. 

Bruno - 2022-2023

No one within the org thought Trae would be this good, this early outside of Trae but it's a testament to his mind, work ethic, and pure ambition. It's f***ed things up because we got a fanbase that instead of being happy about possibly getting another top 5-10 pick, we are looking to win every game. Even if Trae overachieved as I expected in year 2, the Hawks didn't see Collins being suspended or Kevin being hurt most of 2019. We just had a tough break. Look at our vets, it was clear TS wanted this year to be another chance at lottery success and a part of the process. 

This season has been worse than expected but the expectations couldn't be any worse from the fans. We got a lot of guys who are becoming Trae first fans and that's bothersome. This is a f***ing process. Be patience. Even if we were winning, this is a process. These guys gotta grow. 

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, JTB said:

This topic will come up and probably soon especially if we don’t trade for Drummond so I want to ask you ....

Do you like Simmons with this young core as it currently is ? .....of course trading for him we’d probably have to get rid of someone from the young core, do you do that?

Simmons no disrespect will command a lot more than anyone on this team not named Trae. The day Philly makes him available, they will get a crazy good package. So many teams in the NBA want Simmons but nothing out of Philly says they are open to moving Simmons or Embiid. Truth is, they are looking for cheap options to trade their assets for. A trade not to sleep on is CP3 for Horford if Philly can't find cheap and good shooting and playmaking. 

[macdaddy]

31 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I always felt y'all overvalued rebounding and still do. 

Yeah.  I agree with that in this context.  Al doesn't play under the basket so his rebounding numbers aren't going to be 10+ anyway, but add to that the offenses he excels in generally don't even attempt to get offensive rebounds that's going to cut into the average some more.  Not defending Al necessarily but i don't think his rebound avg has a ton to do with evaluating him.  

[Buzzard]

28 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I always felt y'all overvalued rebounding and still do. 

Its all good and I did a little research. Offensive rebounding might be overrated but it seems being in the top 10 in defensive rebounds is good for a teams championship health. Below are the rankings for the past 11 Champions. I was only going to do the past 10,, but since it was the Lakers back to back in 2009/10, I did the past 11. Also notice that the two times the Heat were beat, 2011 and 2014, it was by top 10 defensive rebounding teams.

2019 Raptors 9th
2018 Warriors 6th
2017 Warriors 3rd
2016 Cavaliers 10th
2015 Warriors 4th
2014 Spurs 5th
2013 Heat 15th
2012 Heat 12th
2011 Mavericks 7th
2010 Lakers 4th
2009 Lakers 6th

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2019.html

[kg01]

48 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I always felt y'all overvalued rebounding and still do. 

We always felt you undervalued rebounding as part of your efforts to prop up Alice.  So, I guess we're all even.

 

[kg01]

Interesting NBARadio take, TIFWIW, ol' grumpy Antonio Daniels says Jokic's performance:

a. Considering his aversion to shooting, shows Jokic felt he had an extreme advantage (against our bigs) and

b. Should expedite Atlanta's pursuit of a center and

c. Proves they are hunting in the right direction (in looking to add a starting C).

Just passing along some thoughts.  I don't agree with Daniels takes much.  I think this take is reactionary and a manifestation of his dislike for Jokic.

[REHawksFan]

35 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I heard things about Tony that I prefer not to share. Not bad things at all but just between me and my guy. From what he said, the Hawks have a process and they have full trust in TS to carry it out. But like so many on here, the Luka/Trae bullshit is real even with Tony. He sees Luka and wants to give Trae the tools but TS has a process. 

The plan from what I gotten a month ago was Trae was going to graduate in 2020 but he graduated a lot earlier than expected.

Kevin - 2019-20

John already graduated. 

Hunter - 2020-21 

Cam - 2021-2022, the plan was he would be our best player by this time frame. 

Bruno - 2022-2023

No one within the org thought Trae would be this good, this early outside of Trae but it's a testament to his mind, work ethic, and pure ambition. It's f***ed things up because we got a fanbase that instead of being happy about possibly getting another top 5-10 pick, we are looking to win every game. Even if Trae overachieved as I expected in year 2, the Hawks didn't see Collins being suspended or Kevin being hurt most of 2019. We just had a tough break. Look at our vets, it was clear TS wanted this year to be another chance at lottery success and a part of the process. 

This season has been worse than expected but the expectations couldn't be any worse from the fans. We got a lot of guys who are becoming Trae first fans and that's bothersome. This is a f***ing process. Be patience. Even if we were winning, this is a process. These guys gotta grow. 

Appreciate this Supes. And the following is just my own fandom coming out.  I understand there's a process and we need to trust the process, but sometimes the timeline changes, not out of impatience but out of accelerated growth. Like it or not, Trae developed and grew faster than anyone imagined. He's a freaking Top 5 PG in the NBA in his second year. 

So what's the response? Does the team just say, hey, we know you are becoming elite, but sorry, we are still 2-3 years out so you need to bide your time? That's a risky proposition in my mind. It risks alienating your star and having him check out mentally and or decide they organization ain't doing enough to help him. 

Again, I understand having a plan and sticking with the process. Don't skip steps and all that jazz.  My point is simply that SOMETIMES, the circumstances of the process change so significantly that you have to at least adjust / accelerate the process or risk losing momentum. 

I'm not suggesting anything drastic. Just use some of the capital you have accumulated to help speed it up a little. 

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Interesting NBARadio take, TIFWIW, ol' grumpy Antonio Daniels says Jokic's performance:

a. Considering his aversion to shooting, shows Jokic felt he had an extreme advantage (against our bigs) and

b. Should expedite Atlanta's pursuit of a center and

c. Proves they are hunting in the right direction (in looking to add a starting C).

Just passing along some thoughts.  I don't agree with Daniels takes much.  I think this take is reactionary and a manifestation of his dislike for Jokic.

I usually don’t agree with AD on sirius but the last few days he’s made some points.

 

ps Ben Simmons isn’t a 1 or 5 he’s a rugby player. Seriously ...I’m not saying he’s not good, but the NBA has prolly never seen a guy like this who has no position and can’t shoot from anywhere.  

[kg01]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

I usually don’t agree with AD on sirius but the last few days he’s made some points.

 

ps Ben Simmons isn’t a 1 or 5 he’s a rugby player. Seriously ...I’m not saying he’s not good, but the NBA has prolly never seen a guy like this who has no position and can’t shoot from anywhere.  

Haha, it'll take the league a while to realize this.  He's a playmaking 4 being misused as a "guard" to satisfy his ego.  Needs a change of scenery.