Half the season behind us, what FA targets are you most hoping on Schlenk's radar?

[sturt]

58 minutes ago, sturt said:

I see what you did there.

Everyone did.

But of course, that's a different question, kinder/gentler.

 

Quote

All kidding aside though, I thought it was quite clear this was Ky-rant's doing.  The firing and Jordan now starting.  Am I missing something?

It appears you are.

You're taking Atkinson's firing and Jordan's starting both as decisions prompted by Ky-Rant.

I don't dispute that it's plausible that Atkinson's gone because Ky-Rant had influence on that... I also don't dispute that neither you nor I have any particular direct knowledge to know if that's what happened or if what was said... that Atkinson felt he'd lost the players who are in the locker room.. is more accurate. I don't pretend to know things I can't know. I'll only say that NBA gossip/presumption is too easily accepted in general, but sometimes, it's accurate. Sometimes.

But who makes the decision on who's starting a game? The head coach. And if one believes that the head coach coaches in his own self-interest (at least among those who work for teams trying to get a playoff berth), then one believes the head coach is trying to win. And thus, if a head coach is trying to win, it makes complete sense to Occam that the head coach would not start a player who seems to have hit a ditch in his performance outcomes.

[JayBirdHawk]

18 minutes ago, kg01 said:

All kidding aside though, I thought it was quite clear this was Ky-rant's doing.  The firing and Jordan now starting.  Am I missing something?

You're not missing anything, maybe not 100% but more likely than not!

Durant and Irving never connected with Atkinson and there was a growing belief that they did not have interest in playing for him when this team is whole again next season, sources told The Athletic. It was not limited to just Durant and Irving, though. Several other players are also said to have begun disconnecting with Atkinson. To be clear, a directive from Irving or Durant was not given to fire Atkinson.

– via Shams Charania and Alex Schiffer @ The Athletic

 

 

[sturt]

Again, again.

Cue the "one of these things is not like the other" song.

 

I think sometimes Jay just likes to be canary.

Get it? Canary?

 

 

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

It appears you are.

You're taking Atkinson's firing and Jordan's starting both as decisions prompted by Ky-Rant.

I don't dispute that it's plausible that Atkinson's gone because Ky-Rant had influence on that... I also don't dispute that neither you nor I have any particular direct knowledge to know if that's what happened or if what was said... that Atkinson felt he'd lost the players who are in the locker room.. is more accurate. I don't pretend to know things I can't know. I'll only say that NBA gossip/presumption is too easily accepted in general, but sometimes, it's accurate. Sometimes.

But who makes the decision on who's starting a game? The head coach. And if one believes that the head coach coaches in his own self-interest (at least among those who work for teams trying to get a playoff berth), then one believes the head coach is trying to win. And thus, if a head coach is trying to win, it makes complete sense to Occam that the head coach would not start a player who seems to have hit a ditch in his performance outcomes.

Bear in mind that Atkinson got fired not for wins and losses but for not winning the hearts and minds of Kyrie and Durant.  If you are the new head coach and want to keep your job, it makes more sense to me to extend a tangible olive branch to those two guys by taking care of their buddy than to worry about whether Jordan starting will cost you a game or two.  

[sturt]

In my best d*ck.... EDIT: hehe, okay then vulgarity sensor, let's just call him "Richard" then...  Enberg...

"Ooooohhhh myyyyy."

That's some reaching there.

 

It was put in smaller print, presumably because it doesn't fit the desired narrative/gossip...

 

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

To be clear, a directive from Irving or Durant was not given to fire Atkinson.

 

It is no reach otoh to believe that, as a rule, interim head coaches would normally believe their best shot at getting "interim" removed from their title is by prioritizing winning as a premise of all their decision-making... and by inference, then, prioritizing not starting players who they think need to not start because they've hit a ditch.

 

And. Birds of a feather.... yadayadayada... nice yeller wings there, @AHF.

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, sturt said:

In my best d*ck.... EDIT: hehe, okay then vulgarity sensor, let's just call him "Richard" then...  Enberg...

"Ooooohhhh myyyyy."

That's some reaching there.

 

It was put in smaller print, presumably because it doesn't fit the desired narrative/gossip...

 

 

It is no reach otoh to believe that, as a rule, interim head coaches would normally believe their best shot at getting "interim" removed from their title is by prioritizing winning as a premise of all their decision-making... and by inference, then, prioritizing not starting players who they think need to not start because they've hit a ditch.

Do you think Atkinson was let go because the Nets aren't better than the 7th seed in the East?  Or fired because the owner thinks Atkinson should have won a few more games (which would not change their seed)?  

Atkinson has gotten every bit out of his talent the last few years in terms of wins and losses.  I do not believe for a second his termination was about wins and losses.  If Kyrie and Durant were enthusiastic about Atkinson he would absolutely still be there, imo.  Any new coach needs to be first and foremost concerned about getting Kyrie and Durant in his corner.  Winning is a distant second to that.  

[sturt]

24 minutes ago, AHF said:

Do you think Atkinson was let go because the Nets aren't better than the 7th seed in the East?  Or fired because the owner thinks Atkinson should have won a few more games (which would not change their seed)?  

Um.

Pardon the observation, but neither one of those options actually resonate with what was said by the person closest to that situation in the tweet that Jay cited above.

The tweet reports three things:

(1) The reporter perceived based on his/her presumably informed observations that Atkinson did not connect with Kyrie or Durant.

(2) There was a "growing belief" that they wouldn't connect... so, in your courts of law, that would be called hearsay, and out on the street, we call that gossip.

(3) To be clear, a directive from Irving or Durant was not given to fire Atkinson.

The inconvenience of #3 to the desired narrative remains obvious.

And/but notice, for #2, not only does that one end up being a result of who one chooses to or has opportunity to take into consideration in surmising the "growing belief" thing... but even more striking is that #2 prescribes that those people are psychics, able to peer into the future.

 

 

Actually, no, it also reports a FOURTH thing... which HAPPENS TO BE consistent with what Atkinson and Marks themselves have said.

(4) Several other players are also said to have begun disconnecting with Atkinson.

 

That's what I believe, and it's the only option that actually has triangulated affirmation.

 

And yet, having said all of that, I still  come back to this.

Allen hasn't been playing particularly well.

It is typical that when players who have been starters aren't playing particularly well, they're apt to not start.

This fits with what is typical, no matter what else one might want to presume... presume... about the situation.

As is also typical.... that it is typical that a head coach makes decisions based on what he thinks will win games, especially when his team is in the heat of a playoff run and even more especially when he's wearing the "interim" tag.

My own conjecture... and to my credit, it's "conjecture," as I'm one who tries not to assume he can know things he can't possibly know... is that Vaughn isn't likely to think he's Kyrie or Durant's choice anyhow... rather.... Vaughn likely perceives this as a chance to impress for another team looking for a head coach at some point... that means winning as much as possible so that he not only can brag he got BKN to the playoffs, but that, once there, they over-performed... no one loses, from his perspective, if he achieves that.

 

[AHF]

Sorry.  I don't believe for a second that this team only achieving the 7th seed in the 2019-20 season was the primary factor for his termination.  I.e., the wins were secondary imo.  Durant and Kyrie don't have to call for Atkinson's firing.  The Nets focus is on next season and they are going to go into that season with someone that both those guys connect with.  Connecting with them is the priority #1 for the new coach.

There is nothing to brag about in making the playoffs.  They were already the 7th seed when Atkinson was fired and they were the 6th seed the year before.  If you don't win a playoff series, the only potential outcome that influences how you are viewed is if you don't make the playoffs.  Making them as the 7th seed (best case scenario) is just holding serve.  If you fail to make the playoffs, that is all on you. 

The only potential bragging to be done is if they win in the first round which would, indeed, be an impressive accomplishment this season.  

[sturt]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

Sorry.  I don't believe for a second that this team only achieving the 7th seed in the 2019-20 season was the primary factor for his termination.  I.e., the wins were secondary imo.

Um. Re-read what I said. I'm not quite sure how it avoided your attention because I made a pretty big deal about it, but I only believe what was triangulated. And it wasn't that. (Iow, we seem to agree on that much--it wasn't about number of wins and losses.)

 

In fact, there's little in that reply that actually counterpoints anything I just said... and "little" seems charitable.

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, sturt said:

Um. Re-read what I said. I'm not quite sure how it avoided your attention because I made a pretty big deal about it, but I only believe what was triangulated. And it wasn't that.

 

In fact, there's little in that reply that actually counterpoints anything I just said... and "little" seems charitable.

You keep saying that win loss record for the rest of the season should be the primary concern of the new coach.  I don't agree with that.  Getting Kyrie and Durant as vocal supporters matters much more.

Quote

Then perhaps the most critical thing of all happened: Sources say Durant chimed in, pointing out that the Nets must improve their habits and that they were not building the proper culture traits necessary for a title contender.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/kevin-durant-questioned-nets-championship-culture-in-meeting-that-led-to-kenny-atkinsons-departure-143726805.html

[sturt]

47 minutes ago, AHF said:

You keep saying that win loss record for the rest of the season should be the primary concern of the new coach.  I don't agree with that.  Getting Kyrie and Durant as vocal supporters matters much more.

It wasn't wins and losses for Atkinson, it was that he himself believed he was losing connection with the players, and evidently the reporter cited believed the same thing.

It would be wins and losses for Vaughn for the reasons I gave. (1) It is the best way to make an impression on the current team's management, and (2) if we presume Ky-Rant is actually making the moves behind the scenes--flying in the face of what the reporter reported where Atkinson's job was concerned, but let's give you the point for the sake of argument--it's highly likely they also have already a good idea of who they want to play for and no one is going to get on that short list merely because he started DeAndre Jordan for a game. And (3) Vaughn's best chance at another team's HC job is to over-perform in the win column, now and in the playoffs.

Allen's not played well recently. Allen didn't start the last game. Move along. There is nothing to see here. At least not yet.

 

 

 

I see you edited to include the Yahoo story... so I'll add this, referencing what was referenced in what you've referenced...

Quote

Zach Lowe of ESPN said on his podcast after the firing that Jordan coming off the bench was a simmering issue with the Nets players.

Get out the Sesame Street song again. That is objectively different than this, ie, what you referenced...

Quote

Sources say Durant chimed in, pointing out that the Nets must improve their habits and that they were not building the proper culture traits necessary for a title contender.

The former indicates what players in the room said.... the latter is what sources said Durant said.

Not that those are necessarily inconsistent with each other, but they're also not necessarily connected.

 

The former indicates that there are active players who think Jordan should start. No question.

The latter indicates... what the latter indicates... that the Nets "habits" and "culture traits" need to improve.

 

Could that mean "Simply start Jordan?"

I suppose. It could.

 

But when one thinks "habits" and "culture traits," doesn't the mind go more toward things like how seriously you're taking practice time?... how you spend your off-court time?... what you're doing in practice?... how well you're translating what you're trying to improve on the practice floor to game night?

Does mine. Maybe I'm just silly like that though.

 

I'm not inclined to believe Vaughn has a better chance at getting this or another team's HC job because he decided to play Jordan.

I'm not even inclined to believe Vaughn has any chance of getting this job, short of him sooooooooo superhumanly over-performing that any other option Kyrie or Durant would propose would be tabled until Vaughn proves he's not superhuman.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sturt]

I'm completely comfortable accepting the Newsday beat writer's story. Even though it's not as juicy a drama as what some prefer.

https://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/nets/deandre-jordan-kenny-atkinson-jacque-vaughn-1.42630336

My last words on that topic. I'm embarrassed that I spent as much time with it as I did. The whole point was/is that Allen's not going anyhere before Jordan would. And he still isn't.

[hazer]

FA thread, right? Joe Harris

[Vol4ever]

4 hours ago, hazer said:

FA thread, right? Joe Harris

He would be a good add.  Korver type, a little more athletic.  

[Vol4ever]

If you could pick one FA addition who would it be?  

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, Vol4ever said:

If you could pick one FA addition who would it be?  

Anthony Davis. .

[Vol4ever]

Need need a tough guy to rebound off the bench hopefully Skai can be that guy so I guess I'm going with a sharpshooter from Boston.  

[hazer]

Hey. Joe. Harris...

[JayBirdHawk]

20 hours ago, Vol4ever said:

Need need a tough guy to rebound off the bench hopefully Skai can be that guy so I guess I'm going with a sharpshooter from Boston.  

Which sharp shooter from Boston? Hayward???

That isn't my first thought of a description for him.

I think with the season's uncertainty, most of the players with Player Options will opt in.

[JayBirdHawk]

Not FA Target, but Trade....

7 Trade Packages and Landing Spots for NBA's Top Offseason Trade Targets

Quote

Atlanta Receives: SG Bradley Beal

Washington Receives: F De'Andre Hunter, G/F Cam Reddish, SG Kevin Huerter, C Dewayne Dedmon, 2021 first-round pick (top-five protected)

Once Beal is eligible to be traded again, expect his name to run rampant in rumors this summer. While contenders will crave his ability to win now, he is still only 26 and could fit a young team's timeline, as well.

Enter the Atlanta Hawks, who need to add talent around Trae Young before he's extension-eligible in the summer of 2021. After building up one of the league's greatest collections of young talent, Atlanta can choose to stay patient by letting it grow or try to cash in and acquire a player like Beal.

Beal and Young are both in the NBA's top four in scoring, combining for 60.1 points per game this season. While losing high-upside players such as Hunter, Reddish and Huerter would sting, the Hawks would still get to keep John Collins and Clint Capela to go with their dynamic backcourt.

For Washington, it seems like only a matter of time before Beal asks out. The Wizards are just 1-9 in the 10 games he's scored 40 or more points this season, and there's not a lot of young talent outside of Rui Hachimura to build on.

Hunter was the No. 4 overall pick in the 2019 draft, a three-position wing who has averaged 12.3 points and 4.5 rebounds as a rookie. Reddish has an even higher ceiling, an athletic 6'8" wing who's just 20 years old. While shooting was a concern coming out of Duke, the rookie is nailing 40.3 percent of his threes over his last 12 games, averaging 15.9 points, 3.6 rebounds and 1.3 steals.

Huerter is a 6'7" shooting guard who's averaging 12.2 points, 4.1 rebounds and 3.8 assists while splashing 38.0 percent of his three-pointers.

Washington isn't winning games even with Beal playing at a superstar level. Moving him for three players with All-Star potential would be a great return, especially with a lightly protected first-round pick attached.

They can't be serious. 

Besides the fact that Beal was just as bad as Trae on defense this season - that's suck an overpay for Beal.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2886023-7-trade-packages-and-landing-spots-for-nbas-top-offseason-trade-targets#slide6