Hawks Free Agent Targets

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

99% of the fans of this team are arguing they'd rather have JC.  I only see one arguing for Hayward over him.  Put me in the camp that would rather reup JC than sign Hayward.  

I never said I wanted Hayward over JC. Please don't put words in my mouth. 

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I never said I wanted Hayward over JC. Please don't put words in my mouth. 

Apologies for misstating your view.  I am just not tracking the logic.  If you are willing to pay any price for Hayward and not for JC how do you not prefer Hayward?  

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

So let me get this right...You would pay 30 year old Gordon Hayward over $30 mil/season and 26 year old Montrezl Harrell $22 mil/season but wouldn't pay John Collins at 22 who essentially gives you the same production at a much younger age

Player                                  BMP                                          VORP                                      AGE

Hayward                             2.9                                               1.8                                           30

Collins                                 3.1                                                1.7                                           22

Harrell                                 2.9                                                2.2                                          26

I find this very interesting!

Who's cares about age. Siakam was a lot older and has improved a lot more than Collins during his time in the NBA. Hayward is a SF. Look around, none of them are CHEAP. They are hard af to find. That's why Atlanta paid a retarded price for Hunter 

Edited May 22, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

Apologies for misstating your view.  I am just not tracking the logic.  If you are willing to pay any price for Hayward and not for JC how do you not prefer Hayward?  

Big wings market rate are just like centers in the early and mid 2000s. Even a merely above average one is worth more than a good to even very good player at another position. It's the position that's the IT position in the NBA. The depth is lacking. Everyone needs it.

 

There is a reason mofos were dying to land Robert Covington while guys who are more or as productive as Marcus Morris goes for a bag of skittles. It's the quarterback position of the NBA value wise.

Edited May 22, 2020 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Big wings market rate are just like centers in the early and mid 2000s. Even a merely above average one is worth more than a good to even very good player at another position. It's the position that's the IT position in the NBA. The depth is lacking. Everyone needs it.

But you were also willing to overpay for Harrell.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

But you were also willing to overpay for Harrell.

18-22 million dollars for a 7 WAR PF who is excellent defending in space and on switches is a bargain in the modern NBA. Especially one who can also produce on offense. 

At the PF position, defense is a lot more important than offense unless the said player is elite on offense where he can score back to the basket, in movement, face up, and can playmake for others. Unless it's someone like Josh Smith who got a 1000 strengths and 1001 weaknesses. 

I know it bothers you that I would rather pay Harrell that than Collins but I don't value the shit John does at the same value and I value the f*** out of John Collins. I do think he's worth 18-22 in the ideal overall fit. Not just offensive fit.

Edited May 22, 2020 by NBASupes

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

At the PF position, defense is a lot more important than offense unless the said player is elite on offense where he can score back to the basket, in movement, face up, and can playmake for others.

I mean who is this?

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

18-22 million dollars for a 7 WAR PF who is excellent defending in space and on switches is a bargain in the modern NBA. Especially one who can also produce on offense. 

At the PF position, defense is a lot more important than offense unless the said player is elite on offense where he can score back to the basket, in movement, face up, and can playmake for others. Unless it's someone like Josh Smith who got a 1000 strengths and 1001 weaknesses. 

I know it bothers you that I would rather pay Harrell that than Collins but I don't value the shit John does at the same value and I value the f*** outtakes John Collins. I do think he's worth 18-22 in the ideal overall fit. Not just offensive fit.

Doesn't bother me, I just disagree that it doesn't make good financial sense to do so, nor pay Hayward $30 mil for 3 years particularly for where we are in our rebuild.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I mean who is this?

The modern NBA dude. My goodness. 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I mean who is this?

You know who he's going to say. 

[macdaddy]

Just now, NBASupes said:

The modern NBA dude. My goodness. 

I meant which PFs can do all that?

[NBASupes]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Doesn't bother me, I just disagree that it doesn't make good financial sense to do so, nor pay Hayward $30 mil for 3 years.

It probably don't when I think about it as well. That said, big wings aren't cheap if you just above average. Look at what we had to pay for Hunter and he wasn't even ready yet.

Just now, macdaddy said:

I meant which PFs can do all that?

The best value ones. The ones all NBA teams want

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

It probably don't when I think about it as well. That said, big wings aren't cheap if you just above average. Look at what we had to pay for Hunter and he wasn't even ready yet.

The best value ones. The ones all NBA teams want

Ok then.  I guess my point is i could probably name 2 in the whole NBA that possess the list of skills you listed.  And they aren't available.  

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Ok then.  I guess my point is i could probably name 2 in the whole NBA that possess the list of skills you listed.  And they aren't available.  

Harrell can do it outside of playmaking 

Green can do it outside of scoring

Issac can do it outside of playmaking.

 

Go to the RAPTOR, look at all of the PFs: 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/

So many productive ones in the NBA. But most aren't worth 18-22. 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It probably don't when I think about it as well. That said, big wings aren't cheap if you just above average. Look at what we had to pay for Hunter and he wasn't even ready yet.

The best value ones. The ones all NBA teams want

I have no issue overpaying for the RIGHT things, which is why I take no issue with what he paid for #4 in Hunter for #8, #17 and Prince.

To paraphrase Schlenk - it's easier to recover from mucking up a draft (and I don't think he did with Hunter), but  overpaying in FAcy is where teams die on a vine and much harder to recover from.

[bleachkit]

35 minutes ago, AHF said:

99% of the fans of this team are arguing they'd rather have JC.  I only see one arguing for Hayward over him.  Put me in the camp that would rather reup JC than sign Hayward.  

Supes is not a JC guy. I personally think he's quite good, bordering on excellent. His defense is so-so, but as far as versatile, athletic, efficient bigs go, you're not going to do much better.

[kg01]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Harrell can do it outside of playmaking 

Green can do it outside of scoring

Issac can do it outside of playmaking.

 

Go to the RAPTOR, look at all of the PFs: 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/

So many productive ones in the NBA. But most aren't worth 18-22. 

The answer to his question is 'no one'.

It's offensive putting isaac on that list, and I'm actually a fan of his.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Supes is not a JC guy. I personally think he's quite good, bordering on excellent. His defense is so-so, but as far as versatile, athletic, efficient bigs go, you're not going to do much better.

I am a JC guy. I am just not a Hawksquawk JC guy. This isn't Josh Smith where I wasn't a Josh Smith guy or a Hawksquawk Josh Smith guy. 

If JC was in Golden State. I clearly think he's worth 18-22. His best value is defending in the paint. Green would cover ground, guard the big post players who can really kick John ass like Embiid and Green would do all of the communication. 

JC on offense with him is like Dedmon where they don't take the same real estate but better since Green can pass the rock. That would limit John's touches which is currently 68 a game but give him high value touches like Klay. JC would be in a movement system which is also the perfect fit. JC perfect fit is Golden State. 

For a good fit like Atlanta especially now since Capela will hurt JC even if it helps Young a lot. I worry that he should be in that range with where he's still moveable. The minute he's overpaid especially as a PF, he becomes impossible to move. That position is just too deep and he's not this big impact player. He's just a stat, for us, not really a winner. Since we are talent deficient, we need him but he's not worth that money to me unless it's in Brooklyn or GS where they got Durant or Green or AD or someone like that. 

[NBASupes]

15 minutes ago, kg01 said:

The answer to his question is 'no one'.

It's offensive putting isaac on that list, and I'm actually a fan of his.

Most if not all NBA teams would take Isaac over Collins without a second thought 

[bleachkit]

25 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I have no issue overpaying for the RIGHT things, which is why I take no issue with what he paid for #4 in Hunter for #8, #17 and Prince.

To paraphrase Schlenk - it's easier to recover from mucking up a draft (and I don't think he did with Hunter), but  overpaying in FAcy is where teams die on a vine and much harder to recover from.

No overpays. Anything but that.