Hawks Free Agent Targets

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The Josh Smith Comparison is lame and not even close.  Josh never played to ANY of his strengths, he would as much keep you in a game as he would take you out of it. Million dollar talent, ten cent head.

What you say about JC not making Allstars etc maybe true but you lose credibility when you say stuff like Harrell and Isaac being this on offense " elite on offense where he can score back to the basket, in movement, face up, and can playmake for others."

Josh played to both his strengths and weaknesses. You are using revisionist history on Josh. He was beloved in year 3 on this site. I used to get negged rep like crazy because I was like, trade his ass.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Buzzard said:

Saying Isaac is better than Collins is blasphemy. So I have come to the conclusion, despite his constant sugar coating of the issue, that he is. My opinion and I am welcome to it.

LOL, John is the new Josh Smith 

Edited May 22, 2020 by NBASupes

[macdaddy]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

LOL, John is the new Josh Smith 

Josh shot 43% from the field in year 3.  John shot 58%.   

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Josh shot 43% from the field in year 3.  John shot 58%.   

Josh also played both ends of the court, could pass, score in the post, dish out of the post, play on or off the ball on defense, get steals and blocks and was a walking stat. 

The comparison isn't direct, it's basically saying these two guys got fans within our base who think they are going to be much better than they are and that they say it due to his age when both players likely reached their ceiling, their impact isn't that great, and they are in that borderline All Star tier and likely to never ever make it.

Josh was the most popular Hawk on this board in his year 3. Josh popularity and expectations dwindled way after this year although with me, I never was that high on him by this point.

[macdaddy]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Josh also played both ends of the court, could pass, score in the post, dish out of the post, play on or off the ball on defense, get steals and blocks and was a walking stat. 

The comparison isn't direct, it's basically saying these two guys got fans within our base who think they are going to be much better than they are and that they say it due to his age when both players likely reached their ceiling, their impact isn't that great, and they are in that borderline All Star tier and likely to never ever make it.

Josh was the most popular Hawk on this board in his year 3. Josh popularity and expectations dwindled way after this year although with me, I never was that high on him by this point.

To me the difference is that Josh's popularity was solely tied to the idea that one day he would 'get it' and could be a great player by simply eliminating terrible decisions.   With JC you don't have to wait and hope for that day.  The dude is efficient.   I don't harbor the illusion that he'll be AD or anything.  I'm just happy for him to continue to be who he is because that's productive.  

[kg01]

2 hours ago, Buzzard said:

Always an excuse for something with you. Isaac averaged 29 Minutes in those wins and 30 in the losses. The Magic have a better win/loss record without him.

They are currently 30 and 35. Subtract the 13 and 19 with Isaac and they are 17 and 16 without him. His impact on winning was crap.

 

I won't dispute supes raw data.  But folks know I question the use of analytics, in general.  Meaning, they can be part of the story but they cannot cannot cannot BE the story.

That's where our guy is going wrong.  He's looking at the numbers and ignoring other factors in his assessment.

That's why he's so SURE of what he's saying.  The numbers say the answer is X, so the answer MUST be X.  However, these aren't robots.  So it's not that simple.  Never has been, never will be.

[NBASupes]

17 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

To me the difference is that Josh's popularity was solely tied to the idea that one day he would 'get it' and could be a great player by simply eliminating terrible decisions.   With JC you don't have to wait and hope for that day.  The dude is efficient.   I don't harbor the illusion that he'll be AD or anything.  I'm just happy for him to continue to be who he is because that's productive.  

Both of them are on the same get it plan. The difference is, you seen stardom in flashes from Josh, while with John, you just see data like him being efficient and think it's a sign for something to come when it's really not at all. He's insanely efficient. He will always be insanely efficient. I'll state this on record, John is the greatest PnR player I've ever seen in my LIFE. I watched them all including the most productive of all time, Karl Malone. John was better at it. Now John WILL NEVER be as productive as Malone because defenses are actually smart in 2020.

We got instant tech, and we can't run the same play for two quarters straight. The defenders can actually hedge well in 2020 and the zone defense gives the defense a lot more options to stop the PnR. Not to mention, defenders at the 4 and 5 are night and day better in 2020 on average due to the talent pool/size/athleticism/rule changes/etc. No one is as good with the PnR as John.

He's the coverboy of that shit. That said, because of that shit, John limited to a large degree. It's not a knock but he's a specialist now while back then, he could have scored like an offensive machine. Shit not gonna change. He's not gonna be more than a movement specialist. He is what he is at this point. He just needs to keep working hard and being more reliable. Less mistakes and shit and never to stop working hard and lose what you earned. 

 

Josh had a lot more issues than you guys felt. He wasn't coachable. His weaknesses were critical and he had a lot but he had a lot of strengths as well. More than anyone I've seen outside of LeBron. Some of it was physical for Josh. Some was mental. It was unique. Smart as shit but just didn't know how to make good decisions on the fly. 

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

I won't dispute supes raw data.  But folks know I question the use of analytics, in general.  Meaning, they can be part of the story but they cannot cannot cannot BE the story.

That's where our guy is going wrong.  He's looking at the numbers and ignoring other factors in his assessment.

That's why he's so SURE of what he's saying.  The numbers say the answer is X, so the answer MUST be X.  However, these aren't robots.  So it's not that simple.  Never has been, never will be.

I watch them play, I wouldn't just look at a data chart and be like, A. 

Isaac is better when I watch them play. He's a lot more impactful. He's a defensive menace. Offensively, he shows flashes but I don't think Orlando really is a good fit on that end for him like defensively next year in Atlanta for John. That said, I value his defense at the 4/3 a lot more than I value John's offense at the 4/5. It's not that complex. I made that choice before I ever looked at the stats. 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

 

I love John. I don't know how many times I have to say, I want to KEEP John. I just don't want nothing to do with him at a higher wage than 20 million. He's the impact of a high end role player with clear limitations. Overpaying guys vastly is how you end up killing your franchise. 

You are a funny dude! Make up your mind.

But yet you are okay paying a 30 year old Hayward coming off a significant injury a 3yr/$30 million dollar deal.  And you also are ok paying a role playing bench C in Harrell $22 million to masquerade as a fulltime PF.

[NBASupes]

29 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You are a funny dude! Make up your mind.

But yet you are okay paying a 30 year old Hayward coming off a significant injury a 3yr/$30 million dollar deal.  And you also are ok paying a role playing bench C in Harrell $22 million to masquerade as a fulltime PF.

You don't get it. It's positional VALUE!!!!! Nothing more, nothing less. Big wings cost a lot more and they have A LOT more trade value. 

 

Harrell is an impact player. Stop mentioning him, you know I don't think John is all that impactful for us. Harrell is impactful, period. 

Edited May 22, 2020 by NBASupes

[capstone21]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Josh played to both his strengths and weaknesses. You are using revisionist history on Josh. He was beloved in year 3 on this site. I used to get negged rep like crazy because I was like, trade his ass.

Not by me ... ever

[AHF]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

LOL, John is the new Josh Smith 

No, no

lmao

no.

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

I won't dispute supes raw data.  But folks know I question the use of analytics, in general.  Meaning, they can be part of the story but they cannot cannot cannot BE the story.

That's where our guy is going wrong.  He's looking at the numbers and ignoring other factors in his assessment.

That's why he's so SURE of what he's saying.  The numbers say the answer is X, so the answer MUST be X.  However, these aren't robots.  So it's not that simple.  Never has been, never will be.

So games aren’t played on paper ?  

 

 I swear I trust the eye test more. Thank you for helping me go with my heart @kg01. If I like Gwu then damnit I’m voting 🗳 Gwu! 
 

Gwu feels comfortable when he has the ball. Toppin is looking to initiate almost too quickly and artificially imo. Again I could be off but I’m going Edwards at #1 and Gwu 2, hey that rhymed...Gwu2!  

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Harrell is impactful, period. 

Yup. He’s an Atlanta type of guy too. Fits like a glove from day 1. He pups be a fan fav with his play.

However I will be going Gwu at #2. 
 

If anyone hasn’t noticed, my flavor of the season seems to be “girth”. Girth is the theme...Girth! Big bodied body guard for Trae type low post GIRTH. 
 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

You don't get it. It's positional VALUE!!!!! Nothing more, nothing less. Big wings cost a lot more and they have A LOT more trade value. 

 

Harrell is an impact player. Stop mentioning him, you know I don't think John is all that impactful for us. Harrell is impactful, period. 

I get it and understand position VALUE,  I just don't get the value you ascribe to in paying this version of Hayward a 3yr/$30 million dollar deal. 

Harrell is a bench energy big. Period!

[Spud2nique]

54 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Harrell is a bench energy big. Period!

A whole lot to me. He used to be that but not trending forward.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

No, no

lmao

no.

Yes he is. The memories are so similar in year 3. You could have swore going by the community that he was going to be a star in time and I never brought it. 

Harrell was the best player on the Clippers last year and led them to the 8th seed in the West. You and I both know he ain't just no regular backup big. 

[JayBirdHawk]

From John Hollinger' article I posted in the Salary Cap Thread:

Quote

However, in my reporting on potential fixes to the salary cap last week, several league sources I spoke to honed in one particular solution. That involved setting the 2020-21 salary cap at the 2019-20 level – $109.14 million"

These are the teams and players that are Free Agents and players under contracts that may become available via trade/cuts because of the cap reduction and looming luxury tax.

Dallas – It could put more pressure on the Mavs to re-sign Hardaway if he opts out, or force them to trade one of Justin Jackson or Boban Marjanovic.

Memphis – The Grizzlies are probably fine, but could be in a situation where Josh Jackson, De’Anthony Melton and the mid-level exception becomes a “pick 2 of these” situation, particularly if offers are strong for the two free agents. 

 

Milwaukee – One option for Milwaukee to create more wiggle room would be finding a trade for little-used reserve forward D.J. Wilson, who is due $4,548,280 in 2020-21. In either case, finding leftover money to pay free-agent guard Pat Connaughton might not be in the cards.

Oklahoma City – If the Thunder entertain ideas of keeping Danilo Gallinari at a price point in the $20-25 million range, a lower tax line makes it a lot harder. Not impossible, but harder.

Sacramento –  One wild card, however, is free-agent center Harry Giles. The Kings are capped at offering him $3,976,510 because they declined his fourth-year option, but returning him at that number could diminish the Kings’ ability to use the full MLE.

Utah – The Jazz already faced a difficult situation if they wanted to re-sign Jordan Clarkson and still leave enough room below the tax line to add a 4 with their full mid-level exception.

Washington – We don’t know how high the number will get on free-agent forward Davis Bertans, but if it goes higher than $15 million for 2020-21 then the Wizards might be constrained on using their exception money. 

Denver – The Nuggets already were facing a tight squeeze keeping the roster together next season, and it will get even tighter with a reduced tax level. The other complication is Jerami Grant’s player option. He can either take $9,346,153 or try to do better in free agency. The Nuggets also have Torrey Craig, Paul Millsap and Mason Plumlee hitting free agency. Even if Grant opts in they only have $23 million in wiggle room from the luxury tax line and four roster spots to fill.

Indiana – The Pacers have other ways to generate breathing room, by waiving or trading T.J. McConnell ($3,500,000 non-guaranteed) or by stretching T.J. Leaf ($4,326,825). 

L.A. Lakers –  Quin Cook, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Avery Bradley, JaVale McGee and Rajon Rondo are reasonably paid and could just as easily opt in as not. 

San Antonio – The Spurs are in a jam because they may have to choose between keeping Jakob Poeltl or Trey Lyles. 

Toronto – Marc Gasol, Fred Van Vleet and Serge Ibaka, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson and Chris Bouche

Brooklyn –  re-signing sharpshooting wing Joe Harris – or picking up the $5,005,350 option on reserve guard Garrett Temple.  One potential exit strategy: Trading forward Taurean Prince to a team with cap room 

Houston – dealing Eric Gordon, but there is unlikely to be much stomach to acquire a 31-year-old guard on the first season of a four-year, $76 million extension.

LA Clippers – the Clips could be looking at a huge tax penalty if they keep both Morris and Montrezl Harrell at salaries in the $15-20 million a year range.  forward JaMychal Green opts out of his $5,005,350 contract for 2020-21, the Clippers could even try to stay below the apron and open up their full MLE for use.

Philadelphia – The Sixers priced in being a luxury taxpayer in 2020-21 during their spending orgy of summer 2019, One potential path to easing their bill would be to trade forward Mike Scott, who is owed $5,005,350, and little-used second-year guard Zhaire Smith ($3,204,600).

Hawks are in a great position!

[Spud2nique]

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

LA Clippers – the Clips could be looking at a huge tax penalty if they keep both Morris and Montrezl Harrell at salaries in the $15-20 million a year range. 

We gotta act here and at least put the squeeze on the Clipps.

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Brooklyn –  re-signing sharpshooting wing Joe Harris – or picking up the $5,005,350 option on reserve guard Garrett Temple. 

Or here

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The other complication is Jerami Grant’s player option.

Or here

[Spud2nique]

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Washington – We don’t know how high the number will get on free-agent forward Davis Bertans,

Here

16 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Utah – The Jazz already faced a difficult situation if they wanted to re-sign Jordan Clarkson

Here too