Hawks Salary Cap Discussions

[sturt]

Brought up to current this a.m.

Tony will appreciate that with Dieng accepting something like $4m, there is practically no danger for 21-22 of paying tax, no matter what JC eventually signs for. Only caveat is if there were to be a trade, of course.

Penciling-in LouWill into the 3rd PG slot... though I realize there are those who protest that Lou is not a PG, he was one for us, obviously, and truth be told, he did the same in LAC. But of course, we know that's still very much up in the air whether he'll be signed, or if we end up with someone else.

Penciling-in Knight as the other 2-way contract, though that also is very much up in the air for now. On the one hand, he's still listed on our summer league roster, but on the other, there's obviously some reason he didn't receive a QO. At the very least, either or both the team and Knight are window shopping other options.

And while the debate rages whether Mays or Cooper will get a standard contract, it really doesn't matter that much to the bottom line where any of us are concerned--they're both predestined to spend most of their time in College Park this season regardless. The only adjustment would be that LouWill would slide down to being considered the 3rd SG instead of 3rd PG if you're one who demands Cooper receive 15-man roster status.

 

[sturt]

47 minutes ago, sturt said:

Only caveat is if there were to be a trade, of course.

Ruh-roh.

From Schultz:

 

 

One more move, ya say?

Cam's status looking more and more tenuous. (I hate that.)

[thecampster]

5 minutes ago, sturt said:

Ruh-roh.

From Schultz:

 

 

One more move, ya say?

Cam's status looking more and more tenuous. (I hate that.)

I'm thinking this is a 3 way trade with Gallo and Minny. Unless a legit star is brought back, I can't see Cam as being the trade bait. The only rumor I've heard involves Minny but they'll need a 3rd team to line up salaries.

[sturt]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

I'm thinking this is a 3 way trade with Gallo and Minny.

 

Maybe so.

Either way, I'm cringing a little... Schlenk is due for a bummer of a move.... regression to the mean.

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, sturt said:

Ruh-roh.

From Schultz:

 

 

One more move, ya say?

Cam's status looking more and more tenuous. (I hate that.)

 

10 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I'm thinking this is a 3 way trade with Gallo and Minny. Unless a legit star is brought back, I can't see Cam as being the trade bait. The only rumor I've heard involves Minny but they'll need a 3rd team to line up salaries.

 

I had a crazy thought early this morning that I've been reluctant to post and it makes me uneasy, it involves a 3-Way SnT:

Derozan to Bulls

Lauri to Hawks

Collins to Spurs.

...

Edited:  It's horrible I know - it's harsh and I hated posting it. lol

[sturt]

She said what?

"dkagahjik.... advmaojfmvlamjfoljfa;lvm.... whjojvowo!!!!"

Whaaaaaaaaaaat???

"vjaofjvojiafl... bakmloajvhoj... waiviaoojviax!!!"

 

Fraid its the Lifebuoy treatment for you, Jay.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Brought up to current this a.m.

Tony will appreciate that with Dieng accepting something like $4m, there is practically no danger for 21-22 of paying tax, no matter what JC eventually signs for. Only caveat is if there were to be a trade, of course.

Penciling-in LouWill into the 3rd PG slot... though I realize there are those who protest that Lou is not a PG, he was one for us, obviously, and truth be told, he did the same in LAC. But of course, we know that's still very much up in the air whether he'll be signed, or if we end up with someone else.

Penciling-in Knight as the other 2-way contract, though that also is very much up in the air for now. On the one hand, he's still listed on our summer league roster, but on the other, there's obviously some reason he didn't receive a QO. At the very least, either or both the team and Knight are window shopping other options.

And while the debate rages whether Mays or Cooper will get a standard contract, it really doesn't matter that much to the bottom line where any of us are concerned--they're both predestined to spend most of their time in College Park this season regardless. The only adjustment would be that LouWill would slide down to being considered the 3rd SG instead of 3rd PG if you're one who demands Cooper receive 15-man roster status.

 

You got Dieng signed with the MLE but I think it's the full BAE.   The number is not arbitrary.  That being said, we still have the MLE which I think may serve as part of a trade. 

[txsting]

9 minutes ago, sturt said:

 

Maybe so.

Either way, I'm cringing a little... Schlenk is due for a bummer of a move.... regression to the mean.

Well, at some point we will have to make a cap positive/friendly move, and that will likely be a bit negative on the basketball side of things.  Something has to give, but it doesn't have to happen during the 21/22 season. 

Next offseason will force our hand, but by then we'll know if these Hawks are legit contenders.  We will also have much more information about our current roster, such as better answers to "who is Cam really?", "can Hunter and Huerter maintain upward trajectory?", "what do we have in JJ, Cooper, OO?", etc.  More information will lead to better decision making.  I'm hoping we can let this season play out without making any more big moves, other than the obvious JC resigning.

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, txsting said:

Next offseason will force our hand, but by then we'll know if these Hawks are legit contenders.  We will also have much more information about our current roster, such as better answers to "who is Cam really?", "can Hunter and Huerter maintain upward trajectory?", "what do we have in JJ, Cooper, OO?", etc.  More information will lead to better decision making.  I'm hoping we can let this season play out without making any more big moves, other than the obvious JC resigning.

 the bolded is big

[thecampster]

11 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

I had a crazy thought early this morning that I've been reluctant to post and it makes me uneasy, it involves a 3-Way SnT:

Derozan to Bulls

Lauri to Hawks

Collins to Spurs.

...

Edited:  It's horrible I know - it's harsh and I hated posting it. lol

The difference in salaries between the 3 players would be greater than 25% depending on how you work it out. I'm not sure it works without certain teams going through renouncing...etc.  The Spurs (for example) have almost 100 million in contract holds. They really can't offer John that money and retain their players. They'd have to renounce about $60 million in free agents to technically sign someone. Similar but not as big with the Bulls. 

For those teams who can only SnT to get the player, it really isn't easy to force another team's hand.  Only if they can completely fit the salary under their cap by only waiving the player/players they'd sign away in a trade can they really force another team's hand.

8 minutes ago, Diesel said:

You got Dieng signed with the MLE but I think it's the full BAE.   The number is not arbitrary.  That being said, we still have the MLE which I think may serve as part of a trade. 

The BAE is 3 mil not 4.

[NBASupes]

22 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I'm thinking this is a 3 way trade with Gallo and Minny. Unless a legit star is brought back, I can't see Cam as being the trade bait. The only rumor I've heard involves Minny but they'll need a 3rd team to line up salaries.

Considering how Cam's been used in offers, they are using him for what they consider to be a major chess piece. He's our Tyler Herro. He's available but everyone who calls realizes the price is really f***ing high and you are going to feel it if you trade for him. It's becoming more clear that Hunter and Trae are becoming the untouchables. Cam is the Tyler Herro of our franchise, the potential all star who's underperforming who Atlanta is showcasing as a prospect piece to land a major coup which right now isn't available. He's our Wiseman. He's our Herro. 

It's going to interesting to see how this JC saga plays out. He doesn't have but one card and that card is looking at Lauri M more than JC. No one sees him as someone they should trade a massive asset for. Him and Dennis really played themselves. 

 

If Cam is traded before the season starts, I almost feel it will be for Siakam. He's a player we targeted in the past. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

The difference in salaries between the 3 players would be greater than 25% depending on how you work it out. I'm not sure it works without certain teams going through renouncing...etc.  The Spurs (for example) have almost 100 million in contract holds. They really can't offer John that money and retain their players. They'd have to renounce about $60 million in free agents to technically sign someone. Similar but not as big with the Bulls. 

For those teams who can only SnT to get the player, it really isn't easy to force another team's hand.  Only if they can completely fit the salary under their cap by only waiving the player/players they'd sign away in a trade can they really force another team's hand.

I can breathe easier now - I did say it was crazy, lol.

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The difference in salaries between the 3 players would be greater than 25% depending on how you work it out. I'm not sure it works without certain teams going through renouncing...etc.  The Spurs (for example) have almost 100 million in contract holds. They really can't offer John that money and retain their players. They'd have to renounce about $60 million in free agents to technically sign someone. Similar but not as big with the Bulls. 

For those teams who can only SnT to get the player, it really isn't easy to force another team's hand.  Only if they can completely fit the salary under their cap by only waiving the player/players they'd sign away in a trade can they really force another team's hand.

The BAE is 3 mil not 4.

BAE is about $3.7 million which some are rounding up to four.

[thecampster]

4 minutes ago, marco102 said:

BAE is about $3.7 million which some are rounding up to four.

But we won't have the full amount available. Its math. It won't be usable until we exceed the cap which will take JC's contract to do. As long as the MLE is there, its a room thing.  See below.

"The bi-annual exception is available only to a limited number of clubs, even among those that didn’t use the exception during the previous season. Teams that create and use cap space forfeit the BAE, along with all but the smallest version of the mid-level (the room exception). Additionally, teams lose access to the bi-annual exception when they go over the “tax apron,” a figure approximately $6MM+ above the tax line. So, only teams over the cap and under the tax apron can use the BAE. If a team uses all or part of the bi-annual exception, it triggers a hard cap for that season. Clubs that sign a player using the BAE can later go under the cap, but can’t go over the tax apron at any time during the season once the contract is signed."

 

See the bolded. Its why its used last.

Edited August 3, 2021 by thecampster

[marco102]

Just now, thecampster said:

But we won't have the full amount available. Its math.

Gotcha, I didn't know you were being Hawks specific where I was being general.

[sturt]

Tangent.... I'm not even sure why you'd use the BAE on a 1 year contract unless you really had no other choice. Right? I mean, you can only use it once every other year, there is some natural symmetry that you use it for someone you're going to actually have on the roster for at least two.

My guess is that Dieng will probably be paid via partial MLE unless some other shoe drops to make it necessary.

[NBASupes]

28 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

I had a crazy thought early this morning that I've been reluctant to post and it makes me uneasy, it involves a 3-Way SnT:

Derozan to Bulls

Lauri to Hawks

Collins to Spurs.

...

Edited:  It's horrible I know - it's harsh and I hated posting it. lol

Lauri doesn't really fit us. You really can't afford to have him and Trae on the court at the same time and expect to have a playoff level defense. 

[sturt]

A 3-way with CHI and MIN that sends out Gallo conceivably might yield Thaddeus Young from CHI ($14m) and Culver from MIN ($6m).

But I don't pretend to be able to figure out what CHI gets out of it.

[thecampster]

Just now, LongTimeFan said:

Bi-Annual Exception:

YearSalary

2021/22$3,732,000

I should have never mentioned this....If you use any of the MLE you can't renounce the rest. The full MLE will count against your cap.  Salary + MLE amount subtracted from LT threshold is your BAE = $3.7 million or less depending on how close to the threshold you are.

My assertion of only having $3 million is based on salaries so far. for the purposes of not hamstringing yourself with a hard cap for the year, you'd use all of the MLE before touching the BAE.  Just say OKAY and don't mention the BAE again until we have 14 rostered, 2 two ways and are down to our last signing.

 

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

A 3-way with CHI and MIN that sends out Gallo conceivably might yield Thaddeus Young from CHI ($14m) and Culver from MIN ($6m).

But I don't pretend to be able to figure out what CHI gets out of it.

Hemorrhoid's or crabs is my guess. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

I should have never mentioned this....If you use any of the MLE you can't renounce the rest. The full MLE will count against your cap. 

What?  Really???