Hawks Salary Cap Discussions

[thecampster]

 

[thecampster]

 

[ATLHawks3]

Our biggest need was filled by trading 2 non rotation players and a future second. Now to find that big bodied center that can hold the fort down until OO comes back.

[sturt]

And to think.... I'd just made a new signature b/c it seemed so frequent that the General was being doubted.... hehe....

 

 

[thecampster]

New calculation is:

Salaried players: $97,894,112

Holds: $52,643,376

Exceptions
Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception	$9,535,000
Bi-Annual Exception	$3,303,327

Projected Signings: 

Collins $25,000,000 for 2021 (I'm just guessing here).

Sharife Cooper $925k (rookie minimum).

Skylar Mays $925k (rookie minimum).

Nathan Knight $925k (rookie minimum).  (note: 2 of these 3 will be on 2 way contracts).

 

This brings the total under contract to 12 + 2 two ways. There are 3 slots left.

This gives the Hawks 1 player to take the NT-MLE, 1 to take the BAE and 1 Vet minimum.

[sturt]

Here's what I've got, fwiw....

 

[Spud2nique]

Gorgeous Gorgui is a great fit. Plays his role well and very tough on D.

[JayBirdHawk]

Reminder:

 

 

[RandomFan]

I've done some tinkering with the math and roster possibilities because I wanted to see a few things from a few different angles.

Let's start with the luxury tax estimated number projected at $136,606,000. We obviously want to try and stay under that number, but I'm not sure it will be possible this year. Not if we want to spend the full Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception of $9.536M on a Center. John Collins' extension is probably going to grenade that idea; or Ressler will have to pony up and pay some luxury tax this year. 

My calculations (with some expected roster additions like Solo and Lou on vet minimum contracts) would put us at $32,948,652 under the luxury tax threshold with 13 contracts and the additional two 2-way contracts that don't count on the cap. That leaves 2 open roster spots left for John Collins and a backup center to fill. This is less than ideal, whatever JC's cap figure ends up being it will subtract how much we can pay for a center. 

If we were to spend the full MLE of $9.536M on a center, then Collins' max 1st year salary could be no more than $23,412,652. But for example, if the 1st year of JC's contract counts for $28M on the cap then we would only have $4,948,652 to spend on a center before hitting the luxury tax. With a $25M cap hit then we'd have $7,948,652 to spend. Those people that talk like throwing JC an extra $5M per year isn't that big of a deal, this shows that yeah, it kinda is. It could be the difference between having a $2.5M backup C or a $7.5M backup C. 

Also this is assuming Lou will even take the vet minimum salary, he may not. He made $8M per year for the last 3 years, is he gonna take that big of a paycut? If not, how much more do we give him which obviously cuts into how much we can give a backup C. It may come down to having to move on from Lou and sign a different vet minimum contract guy in his place. 

For those that care, I'll show the math below. Remember the cap hit is what is important, not always the salary. 

     Player  -   Cap $ Amount

1. Gallo =  $20,475,000
2. Capela = $18,603,448
3. Bogi = $18,000,000
4. Delon = $8,526,316
5. Trae = $8,326,471
6. DeAndre = $7,775,400
7. OO = $6,104,280
8. Cam = $4,670,160
9. Kevin = $4,253,357
10. Jalen = $2,659,560
11. Solo = $1,669,178 - this is the flat amount vet minimum contracts count on the cap. 
12. Lou = $1,669,178
13. Sharife = $925,000
14. Would be John Collins (not counted yet)
15. Would be the backup Center  (not counted yet)

*Bolded players not yet on the active roster, speculated amounts. 

Total Cap Hit so far = $103,657,348

Luxury Tax threshold = $136,606,000

Amount under Luxury Tax = $32,948,652

16. Mays on a 2-way contract that doesn't count

17. Knight on a 2-way contract that doesn't count. 

As I mentioned above, even though Solo would be paid $2.390M and Lou $2.642M, they both will only count towards the cap the maximum amount allowed of $1,669,178.

I put Sharife on the 15 man roster and left Mays and Knight as the 2 way contracts, but don't make a big deal about that. It honestly doesn't matter which of the 3 is on the active roster and which 2 aren't. It's the same cost either way so that doesn't really matter. We're gonna have one of them on a rookie scale contract and the other two on 2-ways which don't count on the cap.  

Edited July 31, 2021 by RandomFan

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Reminder:

 

 

Mays and Cooper should get non guarantee 3 year deals. 

I am not sure Knight should stick for the long haul. If I was him, i would look to see if there is interest in me as a FA. 

[NBASupes]

Lou is not going to resign to be a 3rd stringer when there is a massive shortage around the NBA for starting and backup PGs. 

[RandomFan]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Lou is not going to resign to be a 3rd stringer when there is a massive shortage around the NBA for starting and backup PGs. 

Doesn't matter much with the math. Whoever we add on a vet minimum contract instead of Lou will count roughly the same amount as what I projected from Lou. So just replace the name with a different player. Unless we actually split the MLE between two players, one being the replacement for Lou and the other being the backup C. 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Doesn't matter much with the math. Whoever we add on a vet minimum contract instead of Lou will count roughly the same amount as what I projected from Lou. So just replace the name with a different player. Unless we actually split the MLE between two players, one being the replacement for Lou and the other being the backup C. 

Not quite, depending on your years is how much your min is. 

[RandomFan]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Not quite, depending on your years is how much your min is. 

That doesn't matter. As I said above, there is a maximum amount that gets counted towards the cap, no matter how much their actual salary is. 

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/11/nba-minimum-salaries-for-202021.html

Because the NBA doesn’t want teams to avoid signing veteran players in favor of cheaper, younger players, the league reimburses clubs who sign veterans with three or more years of experience to one-year, minimum salary contracts. Those deals will only count against the cap – and against a team’s bank balance – the minimum salary for a player with two years of experience. 

And for this season, $1,669,178 is that amount. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cba/minimum/

[NBASupes]

24 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Mays and Cooper should get non guarantee 3 year deals. 

I am not sure Knight should stick for the long haul. If I was him, i would look to see if there is interest in me as a FA. 

Just to add, Nathan does have a future in Atlanta. 

[Spud2nique]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Just to add, Nathan does have a future in Atlanta. 

I doubt it. Knight, Goodwin, Mays, Lou, I think they are all goners. Could be wrong but we shall see.

[thecampster]

5 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I doubt it. Knight, Goodwin, Mays, Lou, I think they are all goners. Could be wrong but we shall see.

Goodwin and Lou I agree with. Knight stunk it up the last month + playoffs. I'm not sure there is a big market for him. He may stay....its iffy.  I'm pretty sure Mays is back but Mays also played well and may have created a market for himself.

 

There is a minor misgiving I have about your calculations here.  When I'm putting out cap numbers, its for purposes of rules with signings. I typically don't even discuss the LT when it comes to us because the LT is calculated based on final roster at the end of the year.  Cap is a current number for determining trade rules. Because I'm not sold that Gallo will be here at season's end, I'm not too worried about the LT.  

The other minor thing is how we use the BAE and NT-MLE.   Looking at Random's numbers, its assumed 4 of the bottom 5 players are taken on as salary and the MLE is used on top.  Subtracting Lou's amount and probably Solo's (not sold on either coming back) and then splitting the replacement player's salaries into the exceptions creates a bit more room than allowed here. Especially looking at Sturt's chart, there is extra money committed to Solo that could be spent on another player and taken out of the MLE spend on Dieng or the BAE.

 

IMHO, the mindset being used here is of playoff chasing teams and not title chasing teams. We can now be sold as title chasers and upper tier players looking for a championship could be enticed here for less.  Consider Demarcus Cousins, Dedmon, Whiteside, Howard or other good but aging center. Winning a championship at $3 million would be worth more to them in endorsements, shoe contract bonuses, tv analyst deals after they retire, etc than the few million more they'd make on a 1 or 2 year deal. As an ECF finalist last year with a great draft haul this year, we are a prime target for chip hunters. No longer starters but great bench options. IMHO we should be looking at an offensive minded center off the bench for 15 minutes a game with the size to guard opposing centers 1v1. See above with my #1 choice being Cousins. I don't think we should be looking at 3 year deal players except as a 3rd center. Sturt, I just see an overpay there on Dieng and a minor organizational issue there on Random's.  See bottom.

10 hours ago, sturt said:

Here's what I've got, fwiw....

 

What I will say is I'm thrilled to have people on the board that know this well enough to check me when I'm wrong, and have an interest. Most NBA message boards are full of people that don't even realize this is a financial game as much as its a talent game. Our board is light years ahead of most fan boards.

[thecampster]

Because fan boards foster the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

[mrhonline]

Quote

Our board is light years ahead of most fan boards.

I credit Jason Walker for that. I've even got a quick & dirty trade checker in my spreadsheet.

[thecampster]

Just now, mrhonline said:

I credit Jason Walker for that. I've even got a quick & dirty trade checker in my spreadsheet.

 

Yah, you were a hard core "Camp smacker" back in the day.  He doesn't post as much these days but @mrhonline probably knows as much or more than anyone on the board about this stuff. New people pay homage.