Question for the day....

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Diesel, this whole question and topic is opinion based. You can't just say the responses that don't agree with you are baseless, opinionated, and loudly pessimistic when the answer to the question that you asked is 100% based on opinion.

Are you new here? 

Seen this before.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, ShooterSays said:

Diesel, this whole question and topic is opinion based. You can't just say the responses that don't agree with you are baseless, opinionated, and loudly pessimistic when the answer to the question that you asked is 100% based on opinion.

Do you have a standard for generational talent or not?

Shooter you make it seem like people keep stats for nothing.  Stats are a measure of how good/great a player is... no?  With that.. I vacate your idea of everything being opinion based.  We can actually set a standard based on stats. 

[shakes]

13 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Who doesn’t belong in this list? You put Scurvy with those legends? Wow. Take the yellow hat off it’s rotting your brain .

Steph doesn't belong on the same list as MJ, but he's definitely in the same tier as Kobe and close to Lebron.

 

No one here is a bigger Trae fan than me FACTS, but you guys are insulting the game of basketball by even suggesting that Trae belongs on a list with those all time great legends.

[shakes]

16 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Again, I ask.. what is your standard?

If you don't have a definition or a standard, then you have  a baseless opinion....

well I'll cede to your expertise on baseless opinions.  You're the GOAT in that category. 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, shakes said:

Steph doesn't belong on the same list as MJ, but he's definitely in the same tier as Kobe and close to Lebron.

 

No one here is a bigger Trae fan than me FACTS, but you guys are insulting the game of basketball by even suggesting that Trae belongs on a list with those all time great legends.

As soon as you put Steph on that list... you opened the door for Trae...  Unless there's some measure that you use that Trae doesn't fulfill like Championships... and if that's the case, goodbye Stockton, Malone, Barkley and a whole lot of guys who changed Basketball. 

 

[ShooterSays]

12 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Again, I ask.. what is your standard?

If you don't have a definition or a standard, then you have  a baseless opinion....

What is your standard? Because all the names you put in this thread topic have one thing in common.... multiple rings. Curry x 4, Lebron x 4, Kobe x 5, MJ x 6. 

So it would appear multiple championships is your criteria. Otherwise, why aren't guys like Nash or Stockton in your thread title as generational stars?

And if multiple championships isn't your criteria, even though it's pretty much spelled out in your title, what has Trae done outside of winning multiple championships to close the gap to be in the same tier as these other 4 players that you are comparing him to?

[shakes]

Speaking of baseless opinions, anyone who compares Trae or any player from today vs a player from a different era and compares their stats to make an argument....

[shakes]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

As soon as you put Steph on that list... you opened the door for Trae...  Unless there's some measure that you use that Trae doesn't fulfill like Championships... and if that's the case, goodbye Stockton, Malone, Barkley and a whole lot of guys who changed Basketball. 

 

lol who thinks that Stockton/Malone/Barkley are in the same tier as MJ/Lebron/Kobe/Steph?  

 

 

[shakes]

@Diesel and @Spud2nique , please take this thread to RGM.   I need a good laugh.

[Diesel]

Just now, ShooterSays said:

What is your standard? Because all the names you put in this thread topic have one thing in common.... multiple rings. Curry x 4, Lebron x 4, Kobe x 5, MJ x 6. 

So it would appear multiple championships is your criteria. Otherwise, why aren't guys like Nash or Stockton in your thread title as generational stars?

And if multiple championships isn't your criteria, even though it's pretty much spelled out in your title, what has Trae done outside of winning multiple championships to close the gap to be in the same tier as these other 4 players that you are comparing him to?

That's all I wanted. I wanted you to give a measure that we can use so that when he surpasses it... when can proclaim. 

However, it's interesting that a team based measure is what's used to separate others from Trae.

So for now, I guess Trae falls into the category with Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Ewing, Nique, Harden, Nash, Maravich, etc...  BTW, I do consider those guys generational talents. 

But also for your criteria, I guess Robert Horry is one of your goats?

 

 

[ShooterSays]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

That's all I wanted. I wanted you to give a measure that we can use so that when he surpasses it... when can proclaim. 

However, it's interesting that a team based measure is what's used to separate others from Trae.

So for now, I guess Trae falls into the category with Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Ewing, Nique, Harden, Nash, Maravich, etc...  BTW, I do consider those guys generational talents. 

But also for your criteria, I guess Robert Horry is one of your goats?

 

 

Was Robert Horry ever the best player on any of those championship teams like Curry, Lebron, Kobe, or MJ?

No? Cool. There's your obvious answer.

[Diesel]

There's no room for a guy who scored 27.4ppg, 13.5 rpg, 4.3 apg, shoot 43% from the field.... to be a generational talent. 

He was called “the most influential individual offensive player of the last 60 years.”  but he won't be called a generational talent. 

 

[NBASupes]

Generational offensive player. Yeah.

[shakes]

9 minutes ago, Diesel said:

 

But also for your criteria, I guess Robert Horry is one of your goats?

 

 

Cmon Diesel, you're not this stupid.     

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Was Robert Horry ever the best player on any of those championship teams like Curry, Lebron, Kobe, or MJ?

No? Cool. There's your obvious answer.

You didn't say that in your description.   You said Multiple championships.   We're going by your standards.. right?  You seem to be changing the goal posts...

 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, shakes said:

Cmon Diesel, you're not this stupid.     

I'm not the stupid one who said "multiple championships" and nothing else.   Do you want me to make assumptions??  Point is Shakes...  Multiple championships rule out players that some would say are better than guys with championships.  It wasn't until this year that Curry got credit for his multiple championships (as being a "generational" talent) by some.  Whereas I have thought of him being a generational talent without the championships because of his effect on the game. 

And for all of Lebron's greatness, his championships were manufactured.   Hell, the NBA gave him one of those things. 

However, if you want to make a team conquest a part of a "generational talent" discussion.. OK.. .it doesn't make sense.. but OK.  

The way I see it... talent is an individual accolade... not a team thing... but OK. 

 

 

[Diesel]

The Boston Celtics won 11 championships in 13 years and they had an 8 peat...

Do you think that in those 13 years... there wasn't 1 guy who may have had great individual talent but who played on a team that couldn't beat the Celtics in the playoffs?

It almost happened to Wilt.  He had to wait for Russell to get old before he could win a series vs. the Celtics.  Wilt I guess is barely a generational talent because his team barely beat the Celtics... one time. 

 

 

[shakes]

17 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I'm not the stupid one who said "multiple championships" and nothing else.   

 

 

who said that?

[nathan2331]

10 hours ago, Diesel said:

His first year in the playoffs, he took his team further than CP3 had done in 13 years. 

He has led the league in scoring and assists (totals)....  

The funny thing about the guys I named for the poll, none of them have done that. 

For his career, he has averaged:   25.3 points, 9.1 assists and 3.9 rebounds 

Let's consider that...

Curry:  24.3 ppg, 6.5 apg, 4.6 rpg. 

Kidd:  12.6, 8.7, and 6.3  (even if you took Kidd's best years, he never averaged over 20 ppg). 

Headlines:

Trae Young, “joins Oscar Robertson as the only other player in NBA postseason history with 500 points and 150 assists in fewer than 20 playoff games.”

 

 

 

 

There's no question in my mind that Trae is one of the best players in the NBA right now. But to have his name next to all-time greats you have to win championships. That's the barometer for me whether it's fair or unfair. There have been other talented players in NBA history that don't get put in these conversations because we're not watching a 1-on-1 competition. I believe the Hawks will win multiple championships with Trae, but only time will tell.

[JayBirdHawk]

Took these guys awhile to win their first rings. 

Jordan - 1st championship in Year 7

Kobe - 1st championship in year 4 (but had Shaq)

LBJ - 1st championship in year 9

Curry - 1st championship in year 6