Question for the day....

[AHF]

For me, Trae isn't in a class with Jordan or LeBron and probably never will be.  Right now he isn't in a class with Kobe or Curry but he could be depending on how his career plays out.  It takes a career for a player to truly earn his place among those names and Trae is too young for that right now.  Point guard in particular is a position where many of the all-time greats were not the best player on championship teams (think Chris Paul, John Stockton, Oscar Roberson...even a guy with a ton of rings like Bob Cousy wasn't the best player on his teams and so wouldn't meet that criteria).  Trae has the opportunity to join those guys but what level of the game's best he ultimately joins will be a product of his individual brilliance and his team success.  

[Gray Mule]

Elite = being on the all star team on a regular basis.  And then, not because of the team a player happens to be on.  Trae already has one strike against him, playing for Atlanta and not one of the "big name" teams.  Hawks don't get a lot of national media attention unless it's something bad.

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Gray Mule

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, shakes said:

@Diesel and @Spud2nique , please take this thread to RGM.   I need a good laugh.

I can’t. It was a mutual decision between FakeGM and I that I take my talents elsewhere. Oh man, last year before the season started I was “on one” (caffeine burst these days it’s pretty much crack I digress) and came up with a list of nicknames for the players and people acted like I broke the Ten Commandments yet those clowns say worse things.

Heres how it’s gonna go…

F Stephanie being in the same convo as the others.

F FakeGM 

And if you wanna be down with a chick from Texas… then… (you know the rest)

-Pac thug life comp 

[Spud2nique]

@shakes shouldn’t you be clocking in at FakeGM? (Asking for a friend, the same bastard that brought you here )

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/7ed6e24b-a9f5-4a0d-8dbb-40ab9e4796d2
 

I kid of course we all love your hat!

[shakes]

40 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

@shakes shouldn’t you be clocking in at FakeGM? (Asking for a friend, the same bastard that brought you here )

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/7ed6e24b-a9f5-4a0d-8dbb-40ab9e4796d2
 

I kid of course we all love your hat!

I'm still fighting the good fight over there.    Someone posted that Ja is on his way to having one  of the greatest PG seasons in history and I responded that he has to first reach the bar Trae set last year.

[Peoriabird]

Trae is not there yet but could get there.  He needs to become a more efficient scorer and a better decision maker to offset his defensive flaws

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

For me, Trae isn't in a class with Jordan or LeBron and probably never will be.  Right now he isn't in a class with Kobe or Curry but he could be depending on how his career plays out.  It takes a career for a player to truly earn his place among those names and Trae is too young for that right now.  Point guard in particular is a position where many of the all-time greats were not the best player on championship teams (think Chris Paul, John Stockton, Oscar Roberson...even a guy with a ton of rings like Bob Cousy wasn't the best player on his teams and so wouldn't meet that criteria).  Trae has the opportunity to join those guys but what level of the game's best he ultimately joins will be a product of his individual brilliance and his team success.  

But doesn't Trae already surpass those guys because he is the best player on his team?

I do agree that it will take a basketball career to make Trae's name ring out with Jordan, Kobe, and Lebron...  or maybe like Curry.. a strong collection of hardware.   But to make championships.. the qualifier for TALENT just doesn't seem right. 

It's like saying Charlie Parker was a great Sax player but we really can't say that he was a Generational Talent until we see how well he played with other greats like Dizzy Gillespie... or with a big band?

I happen to think John Stockton was a generational talent.   But... No rings.

 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Trae is not there yet but could get there.  He needs to become a more efficient scorer and a better decision maker to offset his defensive flaws

So if Trae finish his career as a 26/10/3.9 player win 3 rings and never do any of the things you say.. he's not a generational talent?

 

[AHF]

56 minutes ago, Diesel said:

But doesn't Trae already surpass those guys because he is the best player on his team?

I do agree that it will take a basketball career to make Trae's name ring out with Jordan, Kobe, and Lebron...  or maybe like Curry.. a strong collection of hardware.   But to make championships.. the qualifier for TALENT just doesn't seem right. 

It's like saying Charlie Parker was a great Sax player but we really can't say that he was a Generational Talent until we see how well he played with other greats like Dizzy Gillespie... or with a big band?

I happen to think John Stockton was a generational talent.   But... No rings.

 

 

Do you really think Chris Paul, the Big O, etc. weren't the best players on their teams at some point in their career?  So no.  His resume is too short but he is putting up historic numbers like Oscar and could reach or even exceed him if he endures and enjoys the kind of personal and team success he needs to have.

[Final_quest]

Stats and efficiency is there.  You lead the league in points and assists on 50/38/90.  He just needs a longer resume of consistently doing what he’s already doing and have it translate to wins.  
Imagine Trae with a better role partner, too.  Capela at the rim did not convert well last year.  
 

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

So if Trae finish his career as a 26/10/3.9 player win 3 rings and never do any of the things you say.. he's not a generational talent?

 

If he wins rings with his current efficiency and decision making, It would be because someone else is the best player on the team

[Diesel]

8 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

If he wins rings with his current efficiency and decision making, It would be because someone else is the best player on the team

Nah.  2021, you pit us against Phoenix in the finals and Trae wins a ring.. and he's the best player on the team. 

This year, if we play to our potential, Hawks win championship... and Trae is best player on this team. 

 

[Peoriabird]

Just now, Diesel said:

Nah.  2021, you pit us against Phoenix in the finals and Trae wins a ring.. and he's the best player on the team. 

This year, if we play to our potential, Hawks win championship... and Trae is best player on this team. 

 

You asked for my opinion...You already know what yours is

[Spud2nique]

This is like asking if Randy Moss was a great in 2001. I mean, he was on his way and so is Trae.

ps Why’d I use Moss no clue.

[Diesel]

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

You asked for my opinion...You already know what yours is

That's true.  I really want to know where you get this opinion.   I was pointing out that we have already been on the cusp on making it to the finals and had we made it, we probably would have won.   So the thought that you put out.. that if we win, it's because of somebody other than Trae is a road that has been crossed already.  or has it?

 

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

This is like asking if Randy Moss was a great in 2001. I mean, he was on his way and so is Trae.

ps Why’d I use Moss no clue.

You used Moss because the world hates T.O. ????

 

[dalamchops]

On 10/25/2022 at 9:30 AM, Diesel said:

What is your standard for Generational star??

To anybody who says he's not...

he's gotta be clear cut top 5 in the league right now to even be in this discussion lol. He's fringe top 10 at best

(in no order)
kd, lbj, step, embiid, jokic, giannis, luka... the next ten are all pretty much interchangeable.

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, dalamchops said:

he's gotta be clear cut top 5 in the league right now to even be in this discussion lol. He's fringe top 10 at best

(in no order)
kd, lbj, step, embiid, jokic, giannis, luka... the next ten are all pretty much interchangeable.

You forgot Trae, the best pure passer the league has seen since Magic, to me that’s generational.

[macdaddy]

But what has Luka done that Trae hasn't done better at this point?  Other than grab cheap defensive rebounds that his centers run away from.   I mean i think Luka might be the better player but he doesn't seem to be held to the standard of results.   

[Diesel]

17 minutes ago, dalamchops said:

he's gotta be clear cut top 5 in the league right now to even be in this discussion lol. He's fringe top 10 at best

(in no order)
kd, lbj, step, embiid, jokic, giannis, luka... the next ten are all pretty much interchangeable.

So by your definition, Giannis and Luka are not generational talents?

Ok..

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

But what has Luka done that Trae hasn't done better at this point?  Other than grab cheap defensive rebounds that his centers run away from.   I mean i think Luka might be the better player but he doesn't seem to be held to the standard of results.   

Be Foreign!

If Trae was from Kasparovich..  He would be held in higher regards. But unfortunately, he's from OK.