Where is the "we just need to be healthy" crowd this morning?

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

For that Bulls team, no, because  you have Pippen and Grant at SF and PF. You'd need to trade Jordan at that point in time for a great center and decent SG with some picks. 

And I didn't say I would just trade GOATs willy nilly just for the sake of it. I said no one should be considered untradeable period. It stymies all potential trades and roster construction.

That's just my two cents. Tony Ressler is never going to trade Trae Young unless Trae personally asks him to be traded. So the chance of that is almost zero.

So Michael Jordan for David Robinson, Willie Anderson and a first round pick is a go for you?

 

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

So Michael Jordan for David Robinson, Willie Anderson and a first round pick is a go for you?

 

Yes, I'd do that trade at that time.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, Sothron said:

This team is screwed by three things this season:

Tony Ressler refusing to pay the LT made our bench incredibly weak. Look at our bench this year from last year. Night and day. It only got better because we made trades at the deadline to make it at least an average bench.

Essentially firing Travis and promoting his son, a 27 year old named Nick Ressler, into basically the real GM of this team. Landry Fields has a say. So does Korver. So does Trae. Instead of one voice with one vision we have several voices each competing with each other and with an owner that refused to pay the LT this season. He also refuses to even consider trading Trae Young and quite honestly no player, not even the GOATs, should be considered above trading. I am not advocating we trade Trae but the idea one player has that much power is not healthy. It is the cost of the modern day NBA superstar though.

Nate is not a good coach. He is completely stuck in the old isolation hunt for mid range jump shot mindset that nothing will ever change for us until he's gone. He doesn't handle his rotations well. He intentionally brought into this season a below average coaching staff just to make him bullet proof from being replaced in season. 

At three critical functions of how a NBA team operates we've been handicapped. We need the FO to come together and bring in a new coach. We either have to go all in to try and bring in a third star to this team (which I know is the plan) OR we should do the exact opposite. Blow it up. Trade everyone but AJ, OO and Jalen (yes, Jalen) and rebuild. There is no chance of this scenario happening but frankly after two disappointing seasons in a row this should AT LEAST be seriously considered. 

 

Blowing it up is not an option.  People's expectations on this particular squad was just way too high coming into the year.  A trade of one or two of the core may need to happen, to change up the chemistry.  But Trae and Murray must be kept together through next season.  I agree that the Hawks need to add that 3rd star.  And we can't be afraid to trade one or more of the kids to get that star . . . even if it's AJ.

[Plainview1981]

On 2/16/2023 at 9:24 AM, shakes said:

What's the new excuse going to be?   Here are my top choices for their next excuse.

 

A.  But we're still developing chemistry with our new 9th man, Saddiq Bey.

B.   It's all on Nate.  If we just had a better coach we'd be the 86 Celtics.

C.  Other team just got hot.  Nothing we can do when the other team shoots lights out.  I mean, I guess we could play defense, but let's not talk about that.

 

I had the team at like 46 wins. Which isn't great, but they are doing worse than the so called most pessimistic fan expected.

[NBASupes]

16 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Blowing it up is not an option.  People's expectations on this particular squad was just way too high coming into the year.  A trade of one or two of the core may need to happen, to change up the chemistry.  But Trae and Murray must be kept together through next season.  I agree that the Hawks need to add that 3rd star.  And we can't be afraid to trade one or more of the kids to get that star . . . even if it's AJ.

I agree with the people's expectations we're too high including my own. 

 

I disagree with Trae and Murray. I believe we need to move one or the other. Since Trae is a million times more valuable to us than Murray for non Basketball reasons like Fandom and ticket sales, he's the one that needs to stay. We need to get a better fitting star to replace Murray. 

We don't have any pieces to get a 3rd star without moving one of our two stars. 

This idea that OO or Hunter can get us a top 50-60 player is laughable. Even Clint who is top 75 player can't get us a top 50-60 as he's just too much of a specialist, even if he's an elite specialist. 

We gotta get a star to replace Trae or Murray. 

If we trade Trae, I would like Jaylen Brown or Anthony Edwards. A big 25+ scorer who can defend as well. 

If we trade Murray, we need an elite scoring big to make it feasible for Trae to always dominate the rock but make teams pay with him playing with a big that can command doubles and run the PnR at an elite rate. We need that for Trae or we just gonna continue chasing our tail.

Edited February 19, 2023 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, Plainview1981 said:

I had the team at like 46 wins. Which isn't great, but they are doing worse than the so called most pessimistic fan expected.

We are doing worse than most expected 

Edited February 19, 2023 by NBASupes

[Diesel]

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I agree with the people's expectations we're too high including my own. 

 

I disagree with Trae and Murray. I believe we need to move one or the other. Since Trae is a million times more valuable to us than Murray for non Basketball reasons like Fandom and ticket sales, he's the one that needs to stay. We need to get a better fitting star to replace Murray. 

We don't have any pieces to get a 3rd star without moving one of our two stars. 

This idea that OO or Hunter can get us a top 50-60 player is laughable. Even Clint who is top 75 player can't get us a top 50-60 as he's just too much of a specialist, even if he's an elite specialist. 

We gotta get a star to replace Trae or Murray. 

If we trade Trae, I would like Jaylen Brown or Anthony Edwards. A big 25+ scorer who can defend as well. 

If we trade Murray, we need an elite scoring big to make it feasible for Trae to always dominate the rock but make teams pay with him playing with a big that can command doubles and run the PnR at an elite rate. We need that for Trae or we just gonna continue chasing our tail.

Too many sacred cows...

And no, I'm not talking about just DJ. 

A big three would be great, but fit is more important.   So whereever we reach out to and whoever we get have to be somebody in line with what we're trying to accomplish. 

If we want to be an offensive Giant.. then let's do that and trade accordingly.  If we want to be a defensive stopper, then let's get the right people here for that.  

But the plan has to come first.   I really hope that Landry has his own voice and vision and this is not just everybody throwing their ideas against the wall.   That doesn't work. 

 

[AHF]

On 2/18/2023 at 9:07 PM, Sothron said:

Yes, I'd do that trade at that time.

While I agree with your sentiment about no one being above conversation, you'd have to give me a lot more than David Robinson (as great as he was) and Willie Anderson to even begin that conversation if you are talking about MJ.  If you have a GOAT player like that, you only trade them if the talent coming back is absolutely overwhelming.  That package isn't because the gap between Jordan and Robinson is much bigger than Willie Anderson.

[Diesel]

46 minutes ago, AHF said:

While I agree with your sentiment about no one being above conversation, you'd have to give me a lot more than David Robinson (as great as he was) and Willie Anderson to even begin that conversation if you are talking about MJ.  If you have a GOAT player like that, you only trade them if the talent coming back is absolutely overwhelming.  That package isn't because the gap between Jordan and Robinson is much bigger than Willie Anderson.

The truth is Jordan was untradable.   I don't care if it were Utah offering Stockton and Malone...  After Jordan showed that he can carry a team the way that he carried the team... and he was the face of the League... even without a chip...  No way you could trade anybody and expect to get Jordan.   @Sothron was looking only at Stats and measurables... but there is some unmeasurable things that make it necessary for every team to call one player  Untouchable when they deem it so.   And I feel that way about Trae.   You want to consider all options on the table but until he asks to be traded, he can be a Hawk4Life if he can keep up the level of play.

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

The truth is Jordan was untradable.   I don't care if it were Utah offering Stockton and Malone...  After Jordan showed that he can carry a team the way that he carried the team... and he was the face of the League... even without a chip...  No way you could trade anybody and expect to get Jordan.   @Sothron was looking only at Stats and measurables... but there is some unmeasurable things that make it necessary for every team to call one player  Untouchable when they deem it so.   And I feel that way about Trae.   You want to consider all options on the table but until he asks to be traded, he can be a Hawk4Life if he can keep up the level of play.

 

I would be shocked if Jerry Krause didn't have trade conversations including Jordan over the years.  That guy didn't want to pay Jordan, wanted Kukoc to supercede Pippen, etc.  

If Jordan had been able to leave in FA, we could have seen that happen.  

If my memory is right, the Bulls basically walked away from another big pay return of the team after title #6 so they surely would have traded him at that point if they could have gotten a young star.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I would be shocked if Jerry Krause didn't have trade conversations including Jordan over the years.  That guy didn't want to pay Jordan, wanted Kukoc to supercede Pippen, etc.  

If Jordan had been able to leave in FA, we could have seen that happen.  

If my memory is right, the Bulls basically walked away from another big pay return of the team after title #6 so they surely would have traded him at that point if they could have gotten a young star.

Krause was a DA... how do you know keep that team together.   However, he was Cheap and fortunate that Mike went along with his cheap. 

The Kukoc superceding Pippen was another Cheap move that GMs of that day were known for...  "Not allowing your stars to get old on you.".   It's why we traded Nique and Willis. 

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Krause was a DA... how do you know keep that team together.   However, he was Cheap and fortunate that Mike went along with his cheap. 

The Kukoc superceding Pippen was another Cheap move that GMs of that day were known for...  "Not allowing your stars to get old on you.".   It's why we traded Nique and Willis. 

 

I think there is a lot to praise about what Krause did.  I’m just saying he seems like a personality that didn’t view Jordan as untouchable and probably thought about some deals given that Jordan reportedly hated him.

[Spud2nique]

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

thought about some deals

I can’t think of any.. certainly not in 96, or even 97, you are defending another title, possibly in 98 but unless it was to the Lakers for Kobe in the biggest deal in NBA history, then I can’t see any deal. Garnett? Jordan wasn’t going to Minny. The Magic for Penny and parts? 
 

Jordan and Shaq? Wow in 98, wow.

Kobe.. Eddie Jones..  and either Elden Campbell or Horry and picks.

 

Kobe.. Pippen.. Horace Grant.. Eddie Jones.. Horry.. hmm.. that team is in the East finals vs Miami most likely.

@Sothron cue up the 2k, we are gonna run this roster vs the Heat with Zo Timmy PJ and parts, then against the Jazz in the finals.

Russell still would have been the victim of a jumper, if not by Air then by Kobe.  #2kday

[shakes]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I think there is a lot to praise about what Krause did.  I’m just saying he seems like a personality that didn’t view Jordan as untouchable and probably thought about some deals given that Jordan reportedly hated him.

yep 100%.  Krause would've loved to trade Jordan so he could prove to the world once and for all that HE, Jerry Krause, was teh most important piece of the puzzle.  This is the guy who famously said, "players don't win championships, organizations do"