Landry Fields is interesting

[TheFuzz]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Wondering if Tony didn't learn his lesson after the past 18 months.

I doubt it tbh 

[KB21]

1 hour ago, TheFuzz said:

I doubt it tbh 

Well, he did learn one lesson.  He learned that he made a mistake by forcing Budenholzer to resign and replacing him with complete and utter trash.  He could have continued with the mindset of hiring a coach to "develop with the team", but he hired a Bud guy in Snyder.  Paid to get him as well.

[givemesome1ce1]

There is a 99.99999999999% chance that before Quin Snyder took the head coaching job, he told Tony Ressler told to let Landry and Korver do their jobs. That’s why the decisions have been so good. And Quin probably can make decisions too.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

forcing Budenholzer

No one did that.

[TheFuzz]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Well, he did learn one lesson.  He learned that he made a mistake by forcing Budenholzer to resign and replacing him with complete and utter trash.  He could have continued with the mindset of hiring a coach to "develop with the team", but he hired a Bud guy in Snyder.  Paid to get him as well.

Fair take.

[KB21]

23 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

No one did that.

They absolutely made it impossible for him to return.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

They absolutely made it impossible for him to return.

"Impossible"?  That word doesn't apply here.  They made it unattractive to him to return.

He did made it impossible for it to be attractive to him when he drove the roster into a ditch.  Again, we could have pivoted and rebuilt two years earlier but we were past that point with Millsap, THJr as FAs, Horford already gone, etc.

[KB21]

16 minutes ago, AHF said:

"Impossible"?  That word doesn't apply here.  They made it unattractive to him to return.

He did made it impossible for it to be attractive to him when he drove the roster into a ditch.  Again, we could have pivoted and rebuilt two years earlier but we were past that point with Millsap, THJr as FAs, Horford already gone, etc.

I will never be convinced that the only road to take was to bottom out.  Never.  Here we are, 6 years later, and at a cross roads again.  Only now we have decided to actually get a real coach and not a tank driver.

[AHF]

Just now, KB21 said:

I will never be convinced that the only road to take was to bottom out.  Never.  Here we are, 6 years later, and at a cross roads again.  Only now we have decided to actually get a real coach and not a tank driver.

We are in a dramatically better place than we were then.  We were driven into a ditch by Budcox.  There may well have been other ways out but even "running it back" would have meant being in the luxury tax for a team that probably would have had a losing record.  We had almost nothing in the way of assets that could have been used to effectively retool.  That window passed when we let Horford and Millsap become FAs.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

We are in a dramatically better place than we were then.  We were driven into a ditch by Budcox.  There may well have been other ways out but even "running it back" would have meant being in the luxury tax for a team that probably would have had a losing record.  We had almost nothing in the way of assets that could have been used to effectively retool.  That window passed when we let Horford and Millsap become FAs.

As a result of that decision, we have had crappy coaches and very poor overall player development.  We haven't been able to maximize any young player because of the crap systems we have used.  We've dumped two good young players over the past two years for peanuts, and both guys would have been much better had they played under Bud than they were under Pierce/McMillan.  

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, KB21 said:

As a result of that decision, we have had crappy coaches and very poor overall player development.  We haven't been able to maximize any young player because of the crap systems we have used.  We've dumped two good young players over the past two years for peanuts, and both guys would have been much better had they played under Bud than they were under Pierce/McMillan.  

What were our 5 most attractive assets at the time we let Millsap go that we should have used to accomplish this amazing pivot into a future of contention without relying on lottery picks?  Like what are the main pieces we could have  used to retool?  Again, my view is that if we wanted to pivot we needed to do it years before but you clearly think we had the assets to keep winning and set the team on a brighter path for the future so what are they?

I'll help you out by giving you my:

Top 5 assets:

#1 Taurean Prince - Coming off a rookie season averaging 5.7 points and 2.7 rebounds, Prince was still an intriguing young prospect.  His lack of production to date wouldn't get anyone big but he was someone teams would have liked.

#2 Our 2017 first round pick.  The #19 pick isn't going to get you a ton but everyone likes picks.  This one turned out better than it had any right to be in John Collins.

#3 Dennis Schroeder - Coming off a season where he averaged 17.9 points and 6.3 rebounds, Schroeder clearly had some appeal. His major challenge was that he was starting a new contract where he would earn $15.5M per year and he clearly wasn't a starting PG for most playoff teams.  (I.e., while he started for our team with our expected 39-43 record, most teams would not want to replace their existing starting PG with Schroeder.  How much could he have drawn in a trade?  Tough to think a whole lot due to the new contract and his good but not great production.

#4 DeAndre Bembry - Bembry averaged 2.7 points and I'm ranking him 3rd on this list among our player assets.  Woof for the rest of the roster.

#5 Kyle Korver - Old but he did net us a handful of second round picks when we traded him. 

 

Toxic Assets:

#1 Kent Bazemore - Set to make $17-19M per year over the next 3 years.  Where is that puke emoji?

#2 Dwight Howard - We had to take on bad salary and downgrade a draft pick to get rid of his $23.5M contract.  Thanks Budcox!

 

Free Agents:

#1 Paul Millsap (32 years old and got $31M to kick of his new expensive contract under which he produced much less than his production in Atlanta)

#2 THJr (solid if overpaid in NY and then Dallas)

#3 Thabo (well past his prime)

#4 Ersan Ilyasova (well past his prime)

#5 Mike Muscala (resigned with the Hawks and was fine)

 

Cap Room:

Between Dwight, Schroeder, and Bazemore alone we are tying up $56M of the $94M in cap room.  If you keep Ersan at a discount from the prior season (as Bud did) and Prince, you are at $64M.  If you resign Millsap, you now have 6 players on your rosters and have used $95M of the $94M so you are already over the cap with the rest of the roster to fill out.  In this scenario, you are already a notably worse team since you are letting THJr walk for nothing.

[JayBirdHawk]

47 minutes ago, AHF said:

What were our 5 most attractive assets at the time we let Millsap go that we should have used to accomplish this amazing pivot into a future of contention without relying on lottery picks?  Like what are the main pieces we could have  used to retool?  Again, my view is that if we wanted to pivot we needed to do it years before but you clearly think we had the assets to keep winning and set the team on a brighter path for the future so what are they?

I'll help you out by giving you my:

Top 5 assets:

#1 Taurean Prince - Coming off a rookie season averaging 5.7 points and 2.7 rebounds, Prince was still an intriguing young prospect.  His lack of production to date wouldn't get anyone big but he was someone teams would have liked.

#2 Our 2017 first round pick.  The #19 pick isn't going to get you a ton but everyone likes picks.  This one turned out better than it had any right to be in John Collins.

#3 Dennis Schröder - Coming off a season where he averaged 17.9 points and 6.3 rebounds, Schröder clearly had some appeal. His major challenge was that he was starting a new contract where he would earn $15.5M per year and he clearly wasn't a starting PG for most playoff teams.  (I.e., while he started for our team with our expected 39-43 record, most teams would not want to replace their existing starting PG with Schröder.  How much could he have drawn in a trade?  Tough to think a whole lot due to the new contract and his good but not great production.

#4 DeAndre Bembry - Bembry averaged 2.7 points and I'm ranking him 3rd on this list among our player assets.  Woof for the rest of the roster.

#5 Kyle Korver - Old but he did net us a handful of second round picks when we traded him. 

 

Toxic Assets:

#1 Kent Bazemore - Set to make $17-19M per year over the next 3 years.  Where is that puke emoji?

#2 Dwight Howard - We had to take on bad salary and downgrade a draft pick to get rid of his $23.5M contract.  Thanks Budcox!

 

Free Agents:

#1 Paul Millsap (32 years old and got $31M to kick of his new expensive contract under which he produced much less than his production in Atlanta)

#2 THJr (solid if overpaid in NY and then Dallas)

#3 Thabo (well past his prime)

#4 Ersan Ilyasova (well past his prime)

#5 Mike Muscala (resigned with the Hawks and was fine)

 

Cap Room:

Between Dwight, Schröder, and Bazemore alone we are tying up $56M of the $94M in cap room.  If you keep Ersan at a discount from the prior season (as Bud did) and Prince, you are at $64M.  If you resign Millsap, you now have 6 players on your rosters and have used $95M of the $94M so you are already over the cap with the rest of the roster to fill out.  In this scenario, you are already a notably worse team since you are letting THJr walk for nothing.

Very well laid out in terms of our salary cap situation and assets.

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

"Impossible"?  That word doesn't apply here.  They made it unattractive to him to return.

He did made it impossible for it to be attractive to him when he drove the roster into a ditch.  Again, we could have pivoted and rebuilt two years earlier but we were past that point with Millsap, THJr as FAs, Horford already gone, etc.

KB never wanted to tank. Do you forget the wars me and him had as I was pro tank and he was pro keep Sap and continue to build via the draft. 

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

As a result of that decision, we have had crappy coaches and very poor overall player development.  We haven't been able to maximize any young player because of the crap systems we have used.  We've dumped two good young players over the past two years for peanuts, and both guys would have been much better had they played under Bud than they were under Pierce/McMillan.  

Truth is KB21, by being an idiot, Danny Ferry fugged us up. He didn't move up to get Giannis. Even when a rival called us letting us know that MIL is thinking about taking him at 15, do you want to move up to get him. Ferry wanted to keep both picks which ended up being Bebe and Dennis and Giannis became one of the best ever. 

That move cost us greatly. With Giannis potential, he might not have gotten fired for his Deng comments. Horford wouldn't have walked. We might have let Sap walk and kept DMC. 

It would have been 

Teague

Korver

DMC

Giannis

And Al.

 

We would have won 3-4 titles and still be contending but Danny is an idiot. 

[NBASupes]

Trading Luka and not moving up to get Giannis. The two moves that cost us massively in the last 10 years. For last 20, add passing on CP3 who wanted to come here for Marvin.

Edited June 27, 2023 by NBASupes

[KB21]

The only thing I can fault Danny Ferry on is not being more aggressive when he identified Giannis as a legit prospect.  I wonder if things are archived from 2013, or did that go away when the old site went defunct?  When word broke of the Hawks being interested in Giannis, it didn't go over well with the fans.  The fans didn't buy into it.  

The Atlanta Hawks really wanted Giannis Anteokounmpo in 2013 NBA Draft (jsonline.com)

Quote

"At that point, no one knew he was coming except our owner and Bud and Kenny (Atkinson) and assistant GM Wes," said Danny Ferry, then director of basketball operations for the Hawks, on the podcast. "When he got there, I pulled the staff together and said this kid's here, I don't want anyone to know of our interest. ... He came to the arena and he walked into the arena. It was dark, he was with his brother. The joy that he had and the excitement, the energy he walked in there with. It was kind of his first wow, this is going to be my life. I'm going to play in places like this, living in America, playing in the best league in the world. He was just star-eyed. His eyes were almost watering, he was so excited to be in the United States and play basketball in the NBA."

 

[NBASupes]

12 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The only thing I can fault Danny Ferry on is not being more aggressive when he identified Giannis as a legit prospect.  I wonder if things are archived from 2013, or did that go away when the old site went defunct?  When word broke of the Hawks being interested in Giannis, it didn't go over well with the fans.  The fans didn't buy into it.  

The Atlanta Hawks really wanted Giannis Anteokounmpo in 2013 NBA Draft (jsonline.com)

 

The fans didn't care. Even on here, people didn't care. They just were uninterested and waiting to see how this all will work. 

I cared and I wanted Giannis. I still remember being heated when Milwaukee got him at 15.

[JayBirdHawk]

OMG....I am Dying...I can't stop laughing!!!  

 

 

 

How did I not know about this? 

 

 

[bird_dirt]

13 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

OMG....I am Dying...I can't stop laughing!!!  

 

 

 

How did I not know about this? 

 

 

True story: 

When I was a kid in grade school, we made marionette puppets in summer camp. I made mine a Lionel Richie puppet.