Referendum on Hunter....

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Don't tell me you are changing your stance as well?  You were clearly in the "we are better off with Bey starting over Hunter" camp.  Now you are on the "I wish Hunter would stay healthy" camp?

Yeah... Bey Starting.. Hunter coming off the bench.

That's a lot different than Bey Starting.   Wes Matthews and Garrison Mathews coming off the bench.   I have said it over and over again.. when we have all of our pieces (Go back and check when it was JJ who was out) that we would be a very hard team to beat.   All of our pieces included Hunter, JJ, and Bey. 

 

[deester11]

18 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Haven't seen those post and certainly haven't seen post stating are an admitted Trae hater.

You haven't been looking. I understand. I'm not a Trae hater.  I hate some of the things he does yes.  You don't seem to comprehend my disdain is not reserved for Hunter.  However, you think he's the difference maker and it's easy. Bey sucks as do most of our wings...so by natural selection...Hunter makes the team better.  There.  How does that sound? 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

• 3 point shooting:   YES
• rebounding:  NO
• playmaking:   NO
• defense:   NO

 

 

 

This is what kills me with you metrics guys...You are so sure of the metrics to measure that determine wins and losses while you obviously don't know.  You have further reduced a player's value by evaluating just 4 categories in your post.  Its just tragic that you people never learn or even consider the possibility that you might have to look at something through a different lens. This is the frustrating part.

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Yeah... Bey Starting.. Hunter coming off the bench.

That's a lot different than Bey Starting.   Wes Matthews and Garrison Mathews coming off the bench.   I have said it over and over again.. when we have all of our pieces (Go back and check when it was JJ who was out) that we would be a very hard team to beat.   All of our pieces included Hunter, JJ, and Bey. 

 

So Bey isn't the problem but rather G. Matthews who is shooting what 48% from 3.  Oh ok

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

JJ can play the 3

He can... but he plays the 4. 

And before you say OO can play the 4.. Let me go back in and say.. He can.. but he's an offensive liability at the 4. 

This is our problem.  We are thin at the 3/4 positions and we are slight...  OO is not a C.  OO is not a PF.   OO is a BU.   JJ is a 3 or a 4.   Bey is not really a 4.  Hunter is a 3/4...   Neither of the Matthews are Sfs.   So we're running 6'4" guys at the SF because big money Dre can't play. 

AJ gets no PT... that's a coaching problem.. because he definitely has the size we need. 

 

[Peoriabird]

Just now, Diesel said:

He can... but he plays the 4. 

And before you say OO can play the 4.. Let me go back in and say.. He can.. but he's an offensive liability at the 4. 

 

 

Didn't say play him 30 minutes a night at the 3 but some minute have been productive.  Plus at least he isn't a liability on both offense and defense like the guy you were totally wrong about

[Diesel]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

So Bey isn't the problem its G. Matthews who is shooting what 48% from 3.  Oh ok

Bey is a part of the problem.. but really the problem is this guy...

 

His stingy rotation.   We don't know what AJ could do.    

His stupid offense.   Keep on Shooting is not the thing that Bey needs to hear. 

 

Now, let me help you PB. 

• Hunter is still not a good rebounder. 
• Hunter is still not a good team defender. 
• Hunter will probably still die on every pick that is set for him. 
• Hunter still doesn't anticipate the play. 

BUT...  Hunter playing at the 3 is better than Matthews playing at the 3.   So you get no victory lap.  What you get is the fact that we are so thin at the three and four position, that we are playing a lot of 3 guard sets and we're getting abused.   We could use Hunter because he's our 2 or 3 largest player. 

 

 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

 

 

BUT...  Hunter playing at the 3 is better than Matthews playing at the 3.   So you get no victory lap. 

 

 

LOL!  I don't know what to say.  How much worse does Bey have to play to give Hunter the nod over him?  This is comical!

[JeffS17]

Hate to break it to you guys but there is no rotation that will suddenly make this team good lol 

[deester11]

Just now, JeffS17 said:

Hate to break it to you guys but there is no rotation that will suddenly make this team good lol 

You breaking nothing. Lol...no rose colored glasses here.

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

LOL!  I don't know what to say.  How much worse does Bey have to play to give Hunter the nod over him?  This is comical!

Either/Or..... Not   Both/And...  I see...

When Hunter comes back.. he can start over Bey... (Does that make you feel better?)  But it would be good to have Bey off the bench in place of Matthews or Mathews.   Don't get me wrong, I like Mathews... but I would rather see him playing the OG... Not the Sf.   He's too small.  

 

 

 

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, deester11 said:

You breaking nothing. Lol...no rose colored glasses here.

One where Hunter actually plays would help.  No Bey trying to be the defender of imposing big wings.  When Bey is struggling he can sit.  No G-League level players in the rotation.  While some of the other ideas floated would be nice to see (like the big lineup has had some success but is rarely used even when we are getting brutalized inside) there isn’t a change to the rotation that would help more than having all 5 starters and our key rotation players coming off the bench.

[Diesel]

12 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Hate to break it to you guys but there is no rotation that will suddenly make this team good lol 

This is true.  But there are some rotations that will make us better. 

You see Jeff, the key is to see how much better you can be and then to maximize your better.   Saying that we can't be good... that's meaningless and really sounds like you're trying to give Quin cover.  @JeffS17,  you ought here repping for Quin??  We all have seen how messed up the rigidity of Quin's rotation are and how he has moved away from player development.  When we have Both Mat(t)hews combining for 26 minutes, 1 pt, 1 reb...  That's as much a problem as Bey doing what he did yesterday.   And that's what it has been with Hunter out. 

 

 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

One where Hunter actually plays would help.  No Bey trying to be the defender of imposing big wings.  When Bey is struggling he can sit.  No G-League level players in the rotation.  While some of the other ideas floated would be nice to see (like the big lineup has had some success but is rarely used even when we are getting brutalized inside) there isn’t a change to the rotation that would help more than having all 5 starters and our key rotation players coming off the bench.

Logic won't work on these guys...Some rather see the team's total destruction rather than see improvement.  They would rather think that this this team is so far away from being good that it is time to give up rather than see a scenario where 12 comes back and the team become more competitive.  That is how blind emotion works.  Nice try though!

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Logic won't work on these guys...Some rather see the team's total destruction rather than see improvement.  They would rather think that this this team is so far away from being good that it is time to give up rather than see a scenario where 12 comes back and the team become more competitive.  That is how blind emotion works.  Nice try though!

I don’t think everyone is this monolithic “they” that you keep referencing.  Talk to them about their individual views.  I think you and some others are speaking past one another because very few people look at the team and all its players the same way as anyone else on this site. We’ve all got our nuances.

[deester11]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

I don’t think everyone is this monolithic “they” that you keep referencing.  Talk to them about their individual views.  I think you and some others are speaking past one another because very few people look at the team and all its players the same way as anyone else on this site. We’ve all got our nuances.

I've been trying to figure out "they" for some time now. Your post is spot on.  

[Peoriabird]

31 minutes ago, AHF said:

I don’t think everyone is this monolithic “they” that you keep referencing.  Talk to them about their individual views.  I think you and some others are speaking past one another because very few people look at the team and all its players the same way as anyone else on this site. We’ve all got our nuances.

Nuances?  LOL!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

This is what kills me with you metrics guys...You are so sure of the metrics to measure that determine wins and losses while you obviously don't know.  You have further reduced a player's value by evaluating just 4 categories in your post.  Its just tragic that you people never learn or even consider the possibility that you might have to look at something through a different lens. This is the frustrating part.

I have broken down 12's impact / non impact backwards and forwards on here.  I just highlighted 4 that I would've liked to seen improvement on.  2 out of the 4 would be great.

If he can't do that, he's just another guy on the team, which is fine.  But if he's just another guy on a team devoid of high level talent, we need to see what we can do to add more talent.

12's absence on this team has dropped us from being a .500 team to a .400 team

 

The possible blessing in disguise is that we've gotten to see JJ's usage increase in his absence, and the effect he can have on a game.  Best case scenario is that when 12 returns, he and JJ bond to the point that collectively, they become the core of our defense at the 3 and 4 spots.

People expect more out of every player on this team.  So we need more out of 12.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

People expect more out of every player on this team.  So we need more out of 12.

I'm not sure about the 1st part because there is no evidence from certain posters that there are flaws to be improved upon with a particular starting point guard but in total agreement with the 2nd sentence.

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

This is true.  But there are some rotations that will make us better. 

You see Jeff, the key is to see how much better you can be and then to maximize your better.   Saying that we can't be good... that's meaningless and really sounds like you're trying to give Quin cover.  @JeffS17,  you ought here repping for Quin??  We all have seen how messed up the rigidity of Quin's rotation are and how he has moved away from player development.  When we have Both Mat(t)hews combining for 26 minutes, 1 pt, 1 reb...  That's as much a problem as Bey doing what he did yesterday.   And that's what it has been with Hunter out. 

 

 

No, Im not repoing for Quin.  He stepped into a very flawed roster, and Im being realistic with what he can really do for this squad.  Id rather him be stubborn right now and more flexible when we have a decent rotation and system in place.  Hes halfway into one season.