Defense and Hustle Tracking: 2023 - 24 season

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

But now fans want to act like we usually Dominate Bad teams when they play.......lol

No one is saying that. Just saying holding bad teams or teams that are missing their best players to 100 points or poor shooting isn't all that instructive, IF the discussion is on whether the team is better without certain players.

Unless, of course, we can arrange to play the g league and scrub nba teams all season. 

Defensively, we are better when Trae isn't on the court. But we've always known that. Don't need trumped up data to prove it. Playing Trae and DJ is a double whammy because DJ is a poor defender at the 2. And Trae is poor at the 1. So playing both is horrible D. 

A more interesting question is whether we could be better with Trae and not DJ? Better than playing both I mean. Because we've generally seen the Off is near nba worst without Trae. And the D without Trae is better, but not elite. So which combination gives us the best blend of O and D?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

20 hours ago, terrell said:

Trae and OO Both are bigger problems on D than people will admit.... But whatever....

Bruno has been holding it down as backup..  Setting good screens, passing, and Staying in passing lanes on D....He plays with a toughness OO lacks and this team needs...

But now fans want to act like we usually Dominate Bad teams when they play.......lol

 

When we lose to bad teams, normally 3 things are happening:

 

1) We can't secure defensive rebounds and are giving up 2nd chance points ( top reason )

2) Some non-star dude is lighting us up, along with the star player 

3) We miss a lot of wide open 3s

Edited March 10 by TheNorthCydeRises

[theheroatl]

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

When we lose to bad teams, normally 3 things are happening:

 

1) We can't secure defensive rebounds and are giving up 2nd chance points ( top reason )

2) Some non-star dude is lighting us up, along with the star player 

3) We miss a lot of wide open 3s

Ok, now why does this happen...

 

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

When we lose to bad teams, normally 3 things are happening:

 

1) We can't secure defensive rebounds and are giving up 2nd chance points ( top reason )

2) Some non-star dude is lighting us up, along with the star player 

3) We miss a lot of wide open 3s

It's a lot more deeper than this. We lose for a myriad of reasons. 

[thecampster]

Removed

Edited March 10 by thecampster

[NBASupes]

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[theheroatl]

15 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

lol how in the world

[REHawksFan]

On 3/13/2024 at 6:50 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

So you are saying the Hawks aren't good at defending the 3pt shot? 

LOL

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Boston ( 3/28 )

 

Defense

https://www.nba.com/game/bos-vs-atl-0022301060/box-score?type=defense

 

 

Because of the way the Celtics play, you must be able to somewhat control Tatum and Brown, while also not letting the others go off.  We all loved the hustle that the team was showing, and their ability to stay right with Boston the entire game.  They struggled guarding the 3.  But they did keep grinding as a team.  And they defensive rebounded well

That leads me to the play of our centers.  Clint Capela was fantastic last night.  Looked almost like 2021 Capela.  He rim protected.  He challenged 3 point shots. He was just outstanding.  His activity on defense, along with the

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=DEF_FGA&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=31800&GameID=0022301060&PlayerID=203991&RangeType=0&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612737&flag=1&sct=plot&section=game

 

And that leads me to his backup, Bruno Fernando.  Didn't really do a good job with his paint defense with guys shooting over him.  But he was outstanding with his perimeter defense.  In the 1st quarter, the Celtics came down on 4 out of 5 possessions shooting a 3, looking to extend a lead.  Bruno was there to contest all 4 of those 3 point attempts, which were misses.  And in the 4th quarter, Bruno played good defense on Tatum, forcing 2 missed shots from him.

All in all, our centers were the big stars of our defensive effort last night

 

Hustle

 

Hunter led the team with 11 contested shots, despite having 20 taken on him.  But Bruno had 10 contested shots out of the 12 taken on him.  His effort and energy has been greatly appreciated.  But the big number to the left, that jumped out at me, were 36 screen assists.  This is basically Bruno ( 10 pts ) and Capela ( 15 ) setting and holding screens for either DJ or Bogi, so they can snake their way into the paint, or get an open 3 off of a handoff.

And a big shout out for grabbing 10 box out rebounds . . . on a team that seems to only get 3 - 4 per game.

45 contested shots out of 94 total by the Celtics = 47.9%

22 contested 3 point shots out of 36 total = 61%

 

Good to not give up a ton of open 3s.

[NBASupes]

16 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Boston ( 3/28 )

 

Defense

https://www.nba.com/game/bos-vs-atl-0022301060/box-score?type=defense

 

 

Because of the way the Celtics play, you must be able to somewhat control Tatum and Brown, while also not letting the others go off.  We all loved the hustle that the team was showing, and their ability to stay right with Boston the entire game.  They struggled guarding the 3.  But they did keep grinding as a team.  And they defensive rebounded well

That leads me to the play of our centers.  Clint Capela was fantastic last night.  Looked almost like 2021 Capela.  He rim protected.  He challenged 3 point shots. He was just outstanding.  His activity on defense, along with the

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=DEF_FGA&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=31800&GameID=0022301060&PlayerID=203991&RangeType=0&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612737&flag=1&sct=plot&section=game

 

And that leads me to his backup, Bruno Fernando.  Didn't really do a good job with his paint defense with guys shooting over him.  But he was outstanding with his perimeter defense.  In the 1st quarter, the Celtics came down on 4 out of 5 possessions shooting a 3, looking to extend a lead.  Bruno was there to contest all 4 of those 3 point attempts, which were misses.  And in the 4th quarter, Bruno played good defense on Tatum, forcing 2 missed shots from him.

All in all, our centers were the big stars of our defensive effort last night

 

Hustle

 

Hunter led the team with 11 contested shots, despite having 20 taken on him.  But Bruno had 10 contested shots out of the 12 taken on him.  His effort and energy has been greatly appreciated.  But the big number to the left, that jumped out at me, were 36 screen assists.  This is basically Bruno ( 10 pts ) and Capela ( 15 ) setting and holding screens for either DJ or Bogi, so they can snake their way into the paint, or get an open 3 off of a handoff.

And a big shout out for grabbing 10 box out rebounds . . . on a team that seems to only get 3 - 4 per game.

45 contested shots out of 94 total by the Celtics = 47.9%

22 contested 3 point shots out of 36 total = 61%

 

Good to not give up a ton of open 3s.

Bruno been doing good. Happy for him but Capela having vintage games again. Screen assists is where I want to see Clint thrive at

[TheNorthCydeRises]

For those of you wondering about defense pre and post Trae ( which is essentially pre All-Star vs post All-Star ), here is how the team looks.

League average FG% is 47.5%

 

RED:  Any defender that has a DFG% of over 49% . . . . Bad defense

BLACK:  Any defender that has a DFG% between 46% and 49% . . . Average defense

GREEN:  Any defender that has a DFG% less than 46%

 

Defended FG% pre All-Star

 

 

A lot of red here ( no surprise ).  Among rotation players, only Bogi, JJ, and Dre played average defense, from a DFG% standpoint.  Wesley Matthews, who have only played in 1/2 of the games, was statistically our best DFG% guy. 

Take out any outliers like Vit, Lundy, Dylan, Seth and Kobe only playing a few games, or even AJ who played 17 games, in very limited minutes.  Because Forrest did get extended run in most of the games he played, I'd say his numbers are legit, despite playing in only 19 games.

 

Defended FG% Post All-Star

 

 

DJ's defense has actually gotten worse playing strictly the point, but almost every other player's defense has improved.  In this stretch, Bogi, Jalen, and Clint have all been excellent defenders during this stretch.  Hunter has slipped into the "bad defense" category over the last few games.

The big thing is that Bruno ( still in the average range, but trending bad ), Garrison, and Vit, are average defenders.  Vit especially has been good defensively, and is about to cross over into the "good" range, defensively.  Forrest is normally rock solid defensively, which is why he's received spot minutes for most of the year when we have a guard out.

Toss out the outliers of Trae ( Chicago game ) and OO's 2 games that he came back ( although both have been out during a significant stretch of this decent run by the team ).

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

For those of you wondering about defense pre and post Trae ( which is essentially pre All-Star vs post All-Star ), here is how the team looks.

League average FG% is 47.5%

 

RED:  Any defender that has a DFG% of over 49% . . . . Bad defense

BLACK:  Any defender that has a DFG% between 46% and 49% . . . Average defense

GREEN:  Any defender that has a DFG% less than 46%

 

Defended FG% pre All-Star

 

 

A lot of red here ( no surprise ).  Among rotation players, only Bogi, JJ, and Dre played average defense, from a DFG% standpoint.  Wesley Matthews, who have only played in 1/2 of the games, was statistically our best DFG% guy. 

Take out any outliers like Vit, Lundy, Dylan, Seth and Kobe only playing a few games, or even AJ who played 17 games, in very limited minutes.  Because Forrest did get extended run in most of the games he played, I'd say his numbers are legit, despite playing in only 19 games.

 

Defended FG% Post All-Star

 

 

DJ's defense has actually gotten worse playing strictly the point, but almost every other player's defense has improved.  In this stretch, Bogi, Jalen, and Clint have all been excellent defenders during this stretch.  Hunter has slipped into the "bad defense" category over the last few games.

The big thing is that Bruno ( still in the average range, but trending bad ), Garrison, and Vit, are average defenders.  Vit especially has been good defensively, and is about to cross over into the "good" range, defensively.  Forrest is normally rock solid defensively, which is why he's received spot minutes for most of the year when we have a guard out.

Toss out the outliers of Trae ( Chicago game ) and OO's 2 games that he came back ( although both have been out during a significant stretch of this decent run by the team ).

Stats like this are mistellng. Hunter defensive responsibility is higher so he's going to not get the metrics bump. 

[JayBirdHawk]

We have got to fix this 27 ranked defense.

 

 

[KB21]

2nd worst off ball perimeter defense.  Off the ball interior defense isn't that bad.  Overall on ball defense is bad.  Transition defense is really bad.  

[JayBirdHawk]

It was interesting listening to OO's exit interview regarding the defense:

- said they tried a lot of stuff over the.course of the season to see what worked and what didn't 

- said when he came back from.injured toe the first time, the defense was different - had him hedging. First time in his career he's had to hedge.

Bruno also indicated Quin changed some of the defensive principles later in the season. 

- 

[JayBirdHawk]

Hawks are in need of at least one defensive game changer in the starting lineup, ideally in the front court. Nobody is scared of any of our guys on defense.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 3/29/2024 at 3:07 PM, NBASupes said:

Stats like this are mistellng. Hunter defensive responsibility is higher so he's going to not get the metrics bump. 

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Hawks are in need of at least one defensive game changer in the starting lineup, ideally in the front court. Nobody is scared of any of our guys on defense.

This was supposed to be Dre's role on this team.  

He is not a defensive game changer.  Offensively he was solid.  No complaints about his offense. 

His overall defensive impact is the same that it always is.  For a guy that normally guarded the other team's best perimeter, he just doesnt to the other things critical to defense.  And I dont know why?

It's incredible that Dre has never had a season where he's averaged more than 5 rebs a game ... or 1 steal a game ... or 1 rebound a game.

If Murray, or God forbid Trae is moved, I wish Quin would move Hunter to the 2. Give us a wing/combo forward who is willing to mix it up and do the intangibles on defense. That way Hunter can just focus on his offense and guarding the 2nd best wing.