Like I told you...

[macdaddy]

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

You ever watch your hometown lottery?

It doesn't have to be overseen by Ernst and Young?

It's not done behind closed doors. 

It's probably the same company who makes the machines.  The difference is that they do it in front of everybody. 

How hard would it be for the NBA to put out a pdf print out of all 1001 combinations by team...

And then do the drawing live.  With the whole world watching.   The #3 pick.  The #2 pick...  Then the #1 pick. 

 The thing is... the simplest way to prove it's not rigged will never be done.. why??  because it's rigged. 

 

 

I'm not with you there.  Team reps and media are present.  it's a ping pong ball machine.   not sure how they rig it honestly.  

NBA Draft Lottery: Odds, history and how it works | NBA.com

There's a video of it in the article

Quote

The actual lottery procedure will take place in a separate room just before ESPN’s national broadcast. Select media, NBA officials and representatives of the participating teams and the accounting firm Ernst & Young will be in attendance for the drawings.

Fourteen ping-pong balls numbered 1 through 14 will be placed in a lottery machine. There are 1,001 possible combinations when four balls are drawn out of 14, without regard to their order of selection. Before the lottery, 1,000 of those 1,001 combinations will be assigned to the 14 participating lottery teams. The lottery machine is manufactured by the Smart Play Company, a leading manufacturer of state lottery machines throughout the United States. Smart Play also weighs, measures and certifies the ping-pong balls before the drawing.

The drawing process occurs in the following manner: All 14 balls are placed in the lottery machine and they are mixed for 20 seconds, and then the first ball is removed. The remaining balls are mixed in the lottery machine for another 10 seconds, and then the second ball is drawn. There is a 10-second mix, and then the third ball is drawn. There is a 10-second mix, and then the fourth ball is drawn. The team that has been assigned that combination will receive the No. 1 pick. The same process is repeated with the same ping-pong balls and lottery machine for the second through fourth picks.

If the same team comes up more than once, the result is discarded and another four-ball combination is selected. Also, if the one unassigned combination is drawn, the result is discarded and the balls are drawn again. The length of time the balls are mixed is monitored by a timekeeper who faces away from the machine and signals the machine operator after the appropriate amount of time has elapsed.

A representative from Ernst & Young oversees the entire lottery process and stuffs and seals the envelopes before bringing them to the studio for the broadcast. The announcement of the lottery results will be made by NBA Deputy Commissioner and Chief Operating Officer Mark Tatum. A second representative from each participating team will be seated on stage. Neither the Deputy Commissioner nor the team representatives on stage will be informed of the lottery results before the envelopes are opened. The team whose logo is in the last envelope opened will have the No. 1 pick in the 2023 NBA Draft, which will be held on Thursday, June 22.

 

[AHF]

The only difference between how they do it and how Diesel would like to see it done is they don't reveal it live because they draft pick #1 first whereas the NBA likes the drama of the reveal building to the #1 pick.  The choice is about what they think makes for the best television event.  If they can rig the current method, they could just as easily rig a live television version.

[kg01]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

You ever watch your hometown lottery?

It doesn't have to be overseen by Ernst and Young?

It's not done behind closed doors. 

It's probably the same company who makes the machines.  The difference is that they do it in front of everybody. 

How hard would it be for the NBA to put out a pdf print out of all 1001 combinations by team...

And then do the drawing live.  With the whole world watching.   The #3 pick.  The #2 pick...  Then the #1 pick. 

 The thing is... the simplest way to prove it's not rigged will never be done.. why??  because it's rigged. 

 

 

Hey, that's not how this works dies-o.

First, you address the facts I laid out.  Then, I'll address your hairbrained theories.  Deal?

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

I'm not with you there.  Team reps and media are present.  it's a ping pong ball machine.   not sure how they rig it honestly.  

NBA Draft Lottery: Odds, history and how it works | NBA.com

There's a video of it in the article

 

Why not just do the drawing Live on TV... maybe #1 then #2 then #3???

 

[Diesel]

22 hours ago, kg01 said:

Two things:

a. There are a lot of people (i.e. more than 2) who would have to know about it in order for it to be rigged.

b. There's more money and notoriety in exposing that secret than there is in keeping it.

Urgo, in 2023, there's no way the draft could be rigged and it not be exposed.

Since you suggested that you said something worth responding to... I have a response.

 

a.   Possibly.

b.  Not really?  How much did Tim Donaghy get for exposing that referees fix NBA games?

Tim Donaghy brings an interesting epilogue to this matter.  Donaghy exposed that NBA Refs fix games...  What was done?  How many other refs came forth?  Did the people even believe him?  Was anything even changed?  Did he make his fortune for telling?

Let me help you...

 

Disgraced...   

For his whistle blowing, several years ago.. he gets to wear the label Disgraced...

Tell me @kg01  who is big enough to tell on the NBA?  Who is big enough to withstand the hit back that the league will give?

""

 

The bottom line is that there are some entities that are allowed to operate illegal openly and nobody will ever challenge them because they are too big to challenge.   That's the NBA.   Star treatment is just the tip of the iceberg.  Rigging the Draft is on that iceberg.

 

 

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

The only difference between how they do it and how Diesel would like to see it done is they don't reveal it live because they draft pick #1 first whereas the NBA likes the drama of the reveal building to the #1 pick.  The choice is about what they think makes for the best television event.  If they can rig the current method, they could just as easily rig a live television version.

With guys with freeze frames and everything else, the league doesn't want to do it my way....  Something may go wrong.   Nobody gives a damn about how the suspense comes about.

 

So let's say they pull #1 then #2 then #3...

By the time you get to #3... the fans of other teams are still watching.... glued to the TV to see if their team can move up from 14th to 3rd.  They got all of you all sold on some BS that this is the best way...  Behind closed doors with Ernst and Young overseeing??  Really?  The restaurant model has really taken hold of our society. 

It's funny @AHF  I just realized that our whole culture has bought into this blind trust thing.

I mean, when you were a student at say... UK...(example)  and you paid your $4000 to take Urban Law... (Just for grins).   And you took your exam... and you felt good about it.   You had studied hard.  Knew the information and believed that you had put your best answers down to the questions that was asked... Your instructor came back and said..  Mr. AHF, you made a 67 out of 100.    You said... Oh. Ok.   Can I see my exam.   The instructor said... NO.   But.. The Chairperson and the Dean were in the room when I graded the papers... They can vouch for the fact that you scored a 67.  And you left the class with a D.  And it was alright because the process was "Fair"... I mean the Dean and the Chairperson oversaw the process.   Even though it would have worked better if you were able to see your grade and how your paper was graded, the University didn't owe you that... Right.  The instructor thought that it would make for better class to have your grades revealed to you without you wasting class time or outside class time going through what you got right or wrong.   

Yeah... We love the blind trust. 

 

 

 

 

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Why not just do the drawing Live on TV... maybe #1 then #2 then #3???

 

I don't know if you read it or watched the video but it's not a drawing.  It's a process and you can watch the entire thing in the video.  Watching the video and the ping pong balls it's very difficult to imagine a way to rig it. 

[kg01]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Since you suggested that you said something worth responding to... I have a response.

 

a.   Possibly.

b.  Not really?  How much did Tim Donaghy get for exposing that referees fix NBA games?

Tim Donaghy brings an interesting epilogue to this matter.  Donaghy exposed that NBA Refs fix games...  What was done?  How many other refs came forth?  Did the people even believe him?  Was anything even changed?  Did he make his fortune for telling?

Let me help you...

 

Disgraced...   

For his whistle blowing, several years ago.. he gets to wear the label Disgraced...

Tell me @kg01  who is big enough to tell on the NBA?  Who is big enough to withstand the hit back that the league will give?

""

 

The bottom line is that there are some entities that are allowed to operate illegal openly and nobody will ever challenge them because they are too big to challenge.   That's the NBA.   Star treatment is just the tip of the iceberg.  Rigging the Draft is on that iceberg.

 

 

 

Yawn... 

He "exposed" something that wasn't true.

You're saying the draft is rigged, right?

If true, there's evidence to that effect.  The ref offered partial truths and his own bad deeds as evidence(sic), which is why it didn't work.

Keep em comin tho.  It's fun when you make it this easy to swat down yer points, dies-o. 

[Wretch]

This thread is exactly what I thought it would be...a maelstrom of rational retorts by @AHF and the fanatical defense of the claims by @Diesel. LOL

Also, I am absolutely NOT saying the lottery is rigged...
...but it's rigged.

[AHF]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

With guys with freeze frames and everything else, the league doesn't want to do it my way....  Something may go wrong.   Nobody gives a damn about how the suspense comes about.

 

So let's say they pull #1 then #2 then #3...

By the time you get to #3... the fans of other teams are still watching.... glued to the TV to see if their team can move up from 14th to 3rd.  They got all of you all sold on some BS that this is the best way...  Behind closed doors with Ernst and Young overseeing??  Really?  The restaurant model has really taken hold of our society. 

It's funny @AHF  I just realized that our whole culture has bought into this blind trust thing.

I mean, when you were a student at say... UK...(example)  and you paid your $4000 to take Urban Law... (Just for grins).   And you took your exam... and you felt good about it.   You had studied hard.  Knew the information and believed that you had put your best answers down to the questions that was asked... Your instructor came back and said..  Mr. AHF, you made a 67 out of 100.    You said... Oh. Ok.   Can I see my exam.   The instructor said... NO.   But.. The Chairperson and the Dean were in the room when I graded the papers... They can vouch for the fact that you scored a 67.  And you left the class with a D.  And it was alright because the process was "Fair"... I mean the Dean and the Chairperson oversaw the process.   Even though it would have worked better if you were able to see your grade and how your paper was graded, the University didn't owe you that... Right.  The instructor thought that it would make for better class to have your grades revealed to you without you wasting class time or outside class time going through what you got right or wrong.   

Yeah... We love the blind trust. 

You can watch video of the process.  It was posted on this thread.  That is like getting your test back marked up.  It is actually safer than normal grading because there is usually no one to observe the teacher's grading and there isn't $50,000,000,000 in annual revenues put at risk if the person being paid to ensure things are done fairly is actually part of a plot.

But, again, the best reasons are not blind trust but basic logic of self-interest.  If the league was rigging, they would give the big stars to the big markets not to Cleveland, Minnesota, New Orleans, etc.  If rigging was done evenly like you say you wouldn't see teams getting multiple #1 picks while others don't get them.  If rigging as a thing, it would only be supported by the owners if they believed it was in their individual interest (they sue one another from time to time and fight one another like hell over things like revenue sharing between owners with a zero sum game playing out) so there is no reason to think that they would be ok with other teams getting gifted with #1 picks when they are not.  There is just no incentive for many of the people you claim are involved to do things the way you claim they are done.  And for that matter, you have tons of people that would know about this and could break the biggest scandal in NBA history and get paid well by some media provider to do it.  Yet they don't - even when their NBA careers are done.  

The "Ewing frozen envelope" theory as a one off conspiracy to rig the draft at least makes sense.  New York is a huge market.  Ewing was a huge star in the making.  For the league as a whole that makes sense.  Of course then you can't have all the owners and front offices in on it like you claim and owners wouldn't put up with it repeating but it makes sense why the league might want to see that happen from a rising tide lifts all boats sort of theory.  But what we've seen the last 15 years doesn't add up  like that and, in fact, runs contrary to what you would expect if this was how things worked.

[Diesel]

8 hours ago, kg01 said:

He "exposed" something that wasn't true.

 

There's your sign!!

[Diesel]

Listen to Victor tell it.

"I knew what was going to happen!"??

Especially this one...

 

[Diesel]

If Anybody can watch that last video... and tell me that the draft lottery is not rigged...    The guy who did his HW even gave you proof after the proof..

About Ernst and Young...  Did they used to be Ernst and Whinney?  Why yes they did...

Case Closed... Ball game!

 

 

[Diesel]

@AHF  You put so much credibility in the name Ernst and Young...  "Why would Ernst and Young, a 50 billion dollar global company, participate in a rigged lottery"....

It's the letter that kills...

"One report in a New York tabloid suggested that Ernst and Whinney, the accounting firm involved in the lottery, played a role in the rigging.

“It did little to dampen the mood in the NBA office when, a day later, a New York tabloid reported a curious fact: Ernst & Whinney just happened to also be the auditing firm for Gulf & Western, which just happened to own the Knicks. Asked by McManis about the possibility of a fix, Madison Square Garden president Jack Krumpe responded, ‘Hey, I told them how to fix it 60 days ago. You call up Ernst & Whinney and you say, ‘If we don’t get Ewing, you’re fired.’”

It was an Ernst and Whinney employee who put the envelopes in the ball, and some believe that person made sure the corner of the Knicks' envelope was creased when it was put in "

 

If Ernst and Whinney were rigging NBA Draft lotteries from the beginning... why would they stop?

[kg01]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

 

There's your sign!!

The worst part about this is I'm all for wild conspiracies.  You've just picked one that doesn't pass the $mell test.   I feel like kickin' my own arse for shooting this down.   Does that make you happy?  

[Diesel]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

The worst part about this is I'm all for wild conspiracies.  You've just picked one that doesn't pass the $mell test.   I feel like kickin' my own arse for shooting this down.   Does that make you happy?  

You said that Donaghy exposed something that wasn't true...

And now you claim that the conspiracy doesn't pass the sniff test??

Is this you??

 

[kg01]

19 minutes ago, Diesel said:

You said that Donaghy exposed something that wasn't true...

And now you claim that the conspiracy doesn't pass the sniff test??

Is this you??

 

I dont think you're reading what I'm writing.  In your world, if your theory is true, the exposer profits.  I said, because the ref exposed an untruth, he did not profit. Instead, he was ostracized because his 'proof' was basically just his own bad deeds. 

[Diesel]

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I dont think you're reading what I'm writing.  In your world, if your theory is true, the exposer profits.  I said, because the ref exposed an untruth, he did not profit. Instead, he was ostracized because his 'proof' was basically just his own bad deeds. 

You're right, I misunderstood what you were saying.

And what you're saying is my point...

If the NBA can turn a whistleblower into a disgraced Ref... and nobody else gets sullied by what is clear right in front of your eyes...  Who would challenge the NBA?  @kg01  Will you watch the following videos or just respond?

 

 

[kg01]

19 minutes ago, Diesel said:

You're right, I misunderstood what you were saying.

And what you're saying is my point...

If the NBA can turn a whistleblower into a disgraced Ref... and nobody else gets sullied by what is clear right in front of your eyes...  Who would challenge the NBA?  @kg01  Will you watch the following videos or just respond?

 

 

He's not a whistle-blower, he's a liar. 

Please stop, dies-o.  This is embarrassing for you,bro. 

[Diesel]

23 minutes ago, kg01 said:

He's not a whistle-blower, he's a liar. 

Please stop, dies-o.  This is embarrassing for you,bro. 

You're proving my point.