How would you improve the defense?

[Diesel]

10 hours ago, theheroatl said:

Ok, for years now we have been a top 10 or top 5 offensive team.

Our defense is currently #23rd. This is our massive weakness.

We have a new scheme, however there are still personnel issues. 

How would you improve the defense other than scheme? You have to sub out playing time for any playing time of players acquired.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/defensive-efficiency

Is it as simple as acquiring a KAT or Gobert and plugging him in place of Capela?

For those arguing about scheme... this is transcending schemes at this point. We don't have many (if at all) defensive stoppers. 

I would run a diamond and 1 zone and let the one be Hunter.   Hunter is the help defender.  His job is to rover with the ball. 

My Diamond with have Trae at the top and Clint at the bottom... and JJ and DJ on the sides.   It's a simple defense but it covers perimeter shooters pretty good and doesn't allow people to take advantage of the middle.  Plus, if Hunter can rover right, he can force the ball handler to pass. 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

More:

 

This explains a lot with the positioning of our players fully facing the ball vs at an angle where they can see ball and player.

And none of those clips have Trae Young in it.

LOL . . how ironic.

 

Surely the coaching staff sees the issue with this defense, right?  Or do they need social media to help them out.

I'm specifically going to watch for this in tonight's game.  Haliburton will eat us alive if we don't fix this.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

48 minutes ago, Bonkers said:

Getting rid of Trae is the 1st thing that would have to happen. You will never have a good defense if he is on your team, I promise you that. 

Other teams have gone crazy hunting for him and it's just been terrible to watch.

Besides that, these guys gotta stop ball watching all the time (looking at you Dre). That's why other teams make easy cuts against the Hawks. And we also need more rebounding.

 

But those back door clips do not feature Trae Young in them.  In fact, when you look at the defensive video breakdowns on NBA.com, Trae is not the main culprit.

And we can't say that the defense is covering for Trae any more.  All of them are ball watching and getting beat on cuts, or can't get back to their man in time to contest the 3.

Quin knows that just about everyone on their team can't guard their man, so they run this defense to kind of create havoc.  But the only thing it's doing is having guys constantly get beat.

Guys NOT named Trae Young.

[theheroatl]

I find it interesting most of you go back to scheme..

We’ve been in a couple schemes now and I think there is only one real solution..

separate the high offensively efficient players that contribute to our high offensive rating for the past few years, and trade the rest for high defensively efficient players and mix them in on the court at all times.

Think.. the JJJ’s, the Marcus Smarts, the Alex Carusos… sprinkle those type guys in the mix with your high powered offensive guys.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

12 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

I find it interesting most of you go back to scheme..

We’ve been in a couple schemes now and I think there is only one real solution..

separate the high offensively efficient players that contribute to our high offensive rating for the past few years, and trade the rest for high defensively efficient players and mix them in on the court at all times.

Think.. the JJJ’s, the Marcus Smarts, the Alex Carusos… sprinkle those type guys in the mix with your high powered offensive guys.

Either that, or just give up playing defense and play like Indiana .

[Atlantaholic]

DJM at SG can't defend. Trae is trying and no longer the liability that he was but at his size he is always going to be at best a net neutral type guy. Hunter is mid, JJ is still young and learning, Clint has declined, OO is good but he is also undersized and picks up too many fouls. Scheme isn't the issue, we just don't have the guys. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

9 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

DJM at SG can't defend. Trae is trying and no longer the liability that he was but at his size he is always going to be at best a net neutral type guy. Hunter is mid, JJ is still young and learning, Clint has declined, OO is good but he is also undersized and picks up too many fouls. Scheme isn't the issue, we just don't have the guys. 

DJ really can't defend at PG either.  He's great in the passing lanes though and getting deflections at times.  His defensive stance is poor at best, and he doesn't get physical with people, like most good defenders do.

Trae is getting a lot better in playing passing lanes, which increases his defensive value.  Loved the charge he took last night. He may have to look to do more of that vs bigger players to prevent giving up easy baskets to them.  Use smarts to get those fouls, ala how Chris Paul used to do.

Hunter is good at on ball defense, but poor everywhere else, which diminishes his defensive value.  He is just not an impact defender, and it shows in just about every way you look at his defense.

JJ loses his man at times ball watching ( which the entire team does ).  He contests a lot of shots, but mainly because he's scrambling to get back to his man, or cover for someone else at the rim who got beat off the dribble.

Clint and OO are still solid around the rim, but defending out in space is definitely not their strong suit.

Scheme is definitely the issue.  The scheme has enhanced their ability to produce turnovers, but also has enhanced the amount of open 3s and back cuts that the opponents are getting.

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

DJ really can't defend at PG either.  He's great in the passing lanes though and getting deflections at times.  His defensive stance is poor at best, and he doesn't get physical with people, like most good defenders do.

Trae is getting a lot better in playing passing lanes, which increases his defensive value.  Loved the charge he took last night. He may have to look to do more of that vs bigger players to prevent giving up easy baskets to them.  Use smarts to get those fouls, ala how Chris Paul used to do.

Hunter is good at on ball defense, but poor everywhere else, which diminishes his defensive value.  He is just not an impact defender, and it shows in just about every way you look at his defense.

JJ loses his man at times ball watching ( which the entire team does ).  He contests a lot of shots, but mainly because he's scrambling to get back to his man, or cover for someone else at the rim who got beat off the dribble.

Clint and OO are still solid around the rim, but defending out in space is definitely not their strong suit.

Scheme is definitely the issue.  The scheme has enhanced their ability to produce turnovers, but also has enhanced the amount of open 3s and back cuts that the opponents are getting.

They provided the exact same terrible defense last year in a different scheme.

[benhillboy]

Have I been under a rock or something?  The Hawks have averaged a 24th ranked defense over the last 5+ seasons.  Who in their right mind would expect a fix is possible?  It’s an organizational blind spot, top to bottom.

[Atlantaholic]

11 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Have I been under a rock or something?  The Hawks have averaged a 24th ranked defense over the last 5+ seasons.  Who in their right mind would expect a fix is possible?  It’s an organizational blind spot, top to bottom.

Trae used to be the scapegoat, but his defense has been pretty decent last half season and to start this year and the Hawks are still terrible. 

[JayBirdHawk]

SSS, but still............why not more minutes?

 

 

[Wretch]

14 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Either that, or just give up playing defense and play like Indiana .

I've been on the fence about dipping into this thread, but this right here pulled me down.  It's one of those things that I have been quietly speaking up on.  There is a hard truth in "offense = defense."  There's A LOT of hard truth in it and we witnessed much of it last night.  Now, I don't think the style that Indiana plays is sustainable - so I'm not endorsing that.  But the truth is that sometimes, your offense has to be your defense.

Every night there's going to be one or TWO guys that can explode like Hali did and the best teams have them surrounded by the right mix of complimentary talent.  We have to be able to score when it counts and that's where we struggle (not offensively as a whole).  We look like world beaters against soft interior defense and we struggle against the zone and against physical teams (and everybody blames Trae).  This is because offense and defense are more interconnected than people care to admit. 

The game is mental and is all about runs.  Good defense will undoubtedly help but...

Spoiler

I like this team a lot and I honestly think we're close.  We need a true shooter in the starting lineup ideally paired with someone who can post up...if not just a stretch 5.  On the other end of the court, it's not personnel or scheming issues.  It's effort and putting a lid on runs.  We absolutely cannot trade 2's for 3's.  Not even if we're clicking on all cylinders.  So if it comes down to it and we gotta pick a poison, I say "yolo" that sh!t and run the damn shooters off the 3pt line at all costs.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

[NBASupes]

On 11/22/2023 at 10:26 AM, TheNorthCydeRises said:

DJ really can't defend at PG either.  He's great in the passing lanes though and getting deflections at times.  His defensive stance is poor at best, and he doesn't get physical with people, like most good defenders do.

Trae is getting a lot better in playing passing lanes, which increases his defensive value.  Loved the charge he took last night. He may have to look to do more of that vs bigger players to prevent giving up easy baskets to them.  Use smarts to get those fouls, ala how Chris Paul used to do.

Hunter is good at on ball defense, but poor everywhere else, which diminishes his defensive value.  He is just not an impact defender, and it shows in just about every way you look at his defense.

JJ loses his man at times ball watching ( which the entire team does ).  He contests a lot of shots, but mainly because he's scrambling to get back to his man, or cover for someone else at the rim who got beat off the dribble.

Clint and OO are still solid around the rim, but defending out in space is definitely not their strong suit.

Scheme is definitely the issue.  The scheme has enhanced their ability to produce turnovers, but also has enhanced the amount of open 3s and back cuts that the opponents are getting.

How is Hunter poor at off ball defense? This is why I am always at you guys neck about him. []

Dre is always rotationing, pointing, calling out screens and functioning on hi lows and always the one I don't catch out of position unlike [] JJ who's habitually out of position and unaware. The gap between JC and JJ off ball defense and defensive communication is as long as the River Nile. Offensively JC didn't fit last year so he's not missed but defensively, omg he is missed. Even if JJ is a better man defender than JC. 

[theheroatl]

i feel like I’ve literally screamed to the moon about this lineup plus DJM and Trae..

 Reasons why it isn’t happening? God only knows

just give each of these guys 30 minutes and call it a day..

why oh why can’t we do this… I’m sick of watching other lines up like the terrible Capela Hunter lineup

Edited November 22, 2023 by theheroatl

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

I think Quin has to look at these numbers, and do something different.  Losers of 4 out of 5.

Scored 152 but gave up 157 points in an emotionally draining game last night

Brooklyn is almost primed to come in here to pull off a mild upset.

 

If that happens, Quin has to change some things in the lineup.

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 11/22/2023 at 4:33 PM, NBASupes said:

How is Hunter poor at off ball defense? This is why I am always at you guys neck about him. []

Dre is always rotationing, pointing, calling out screens and functioning on hi lows and always the one I don't catch out of position unlike [] JJ who's habitually out of position and unaware. The gap between JC and JJ off ball defense and defensive communication is as long as the River Nile. Offensively JC didn't fit last year so he's not missed but defensively, omg he is missed. Even if JJ is a better man defender than JC. 

Once again, I'm one of the people on here that go back and rewatch games and individual clips of personnel in games.  I never say stuff just to be saying it.  You can clearly see it on video.  You can see it in his analytical statistics.

[]  I try to let everyone know where I'm coming from, either through video or through stats.

 

Dre is guilty of ball watching just like every guy on the team.  He'll get beat by the same backdoor and baseline cuts that a younger guy like JJ does.  Dre's piss poor rebounding stems from him not even trying to crash the defensive boards.  He's had rebounds bounce right at his feet, and still have people grab the ball before he does.

If his off ball defense was legit, he'd get more rebound, block and steal chances.

Dre is the best defender on a horrible defensive team.  At best, Dre gets a C for his defense.

 

The burden of proof that shows that Dre is a good on or off ball defender is on YOU, not me.  I've gone down this rabbit hole with you plenty of times.

You want me or anyone else to believe that Dre is a good defender?

Prove it.

[Diesel]

On 11/21/2023 at 7:24 PM, theheroatl said:

I find it interesting most of you go back to scheme..

We’ve been in a couple schemes now and I think there is only one real solution..

separate the high offensively efficient players that contribute to our high offensive rating for the past few years, and trade the rest for high defensively efficient players and mix them in on the court at all times.

Think.. the JJJ’s, the Marcus Smarts, the Alex Carusos… sprinkle those type guys in the mix with your high powered offensive guys.

Personnel vs. Scheme. 

I say a lot of it is scheme.   Our players are out of position often.   We have shot blockers and rebounders but the scheme of defense that we use pulls them out of position.   And unfortunately the answer of most of our fanbase is to change the personnel to make the scheme work.   Guys who are exceptional in one way or another and can cover the flaws of the scheme.   That's so backwards.   The scheme that we have now is not one that works all the time.   Better would be to adopt a scheme more fitting of our talent.   That's why my answer was diamond and 1.   We're so afraid of the perimeter that we're pulling our bigs out of rebounding position to cover it.  And then we wonder why we get out rebounded.