I'm Really Concerned and Confused!

[d2v16DKG]

Once again guys, I know I'm in a minority. But I really don't understand BK or most of you who post. For some reason, you guys are tickled pink at losing Walker and getting nothing but a low draft pick for a predicted bad draft next year. You're ok with Peyton saying he doesn't want to play for us- a lousy team, and we even pay him money not to play for us. (Boy isn't that great!) Now we're not even competitive (losing by 20 points+) but you guys are all happy because you want us to lose so we get a high draft pick (for a lousy draft). So Bk is making us the worst team possible (we will probably set some kind of record this year) and you're ok with that. Meantime did you ever stop to think, noone (despite our caproom) will be interested in playing for the Hawks because they're a lousy team. Excuse me if I don't think BK is much of a genius. Excuse me if I disagree with you guys cheering your hearts out for us to lose!

[CBAreject]

Once again, we've won 33 games or fewer for 6 consecutive years.

1999-2000 through 2004-2005

So, here's my question for you. In the 1999-2000 year when we had our first losing season in some time, what do you think the outlook was? "Alright, let's just add some pieces and we'll contend again. WIN NOW!"

When we traded Deke for Ratliff and Kukoc (not for cap space or picks...we wanted to WIN NOW!), we were bad enough and lucky enough to have the #3 pick. What did we do with it? We traded it for a player who'd already reached his potential so we could WIN NOW!

That team was just good enough to wind up drafting 8th. So, what did we do with the pick? Well, actually we'd already traded it for some other mediocre player (Wright...WIN NOW!) Well, the next year's team was pretty decent...decent enough to win 30 or so. We ended up picking 8th again, but we traded that pick so we could WIN NOW! We thought Big Dog would do that for us. Nope. More losing.

I think you see the trend. This franchise has been ruined by the 'Win Now' mantra. It's time that we finally realized that we can't win now, and we won't even 'WIN LATER' if we don't 'LOSE NOW'.

AGAIN, I challenge you. Think of some teams besides the Lakers that appeared in the NBA Finals that did not benefit from lottery picks. I posted a list earlier, so I'll try to find it.

[CBAreject]

NEARLY EVERY TEAM THAT HAS PLAYED IN THE NBA FINALS FOR THE LAST 25 YEARS HAS DRAFTED AT LEAST ONE STAR IN THE LOTTERY. THE WIDE MAJORITY OF THOSE TEAMS PICKED ONE TOP 3. The exceptions are the Lakers who signed Shaq and trade for Kobe, and the Suns, who traded for Barkley and KJ. We are not the Lakers and can't attract the best player in the league to sign with us. Therefore, we must draft our best player.

Here's a partial list back to 1991:

Bulls (Jordan-3, Grant)

Lakers (Magic-1)

Trailblazers (Drexler, Porter)

Suns (Kevin Johnson)

Rockets (Olajuwon-1)

Knicks (Ewing-1)

Magic (Shaq-1, Hardaway-3)

Sonics (Payton-2)

Jazz (Malone)

Spurs (Duncan-1, Robinson-1)

Pacers (Miller, Davis)

76ers (Iverson-1)

Nets (KMart-1)

*Pistons: they drafted Hill #3 and Stackhouse #2 and traded those for Ben Wallace and Richard Hamilton who became their stars.

How many #1 picks do you need to see in that list before you understand?

[Final_quest]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I appreciate that you are a Hawks fan, and that you want the Hawks to win, we can all agree on that. Rebuilding is a slow difficult painful process. The Hawks are committed to being responsible with their payroll. If you look at the Blazers or the Knicks you see teams that will not become great for many years because of their payroll. The Hawks are able to build a solid foundation because we have no players with big salaries that we are getting no value out of, like Alan Henderson, on our payroll. Free agents will come, but we must be patient. The Bulls tried to rebuild by bringing in mediocre players signed to big salaries, found it didn't work, and built correctly through the draft. We have to be responsible, and signing Walker for $15 million/year gets us nowhere.

[phoostal]

The reasoning you are going to get is that at least we let the young guys play and develop.

Here is another theory, What if we find out that those young players aren't that good? Is BK still a genius? What if no one wants to sign here? Is BK still a genius?

Right now I'm willing to sit back and see what happens. Right now I'm skeptical, but we will see soon enough.

Personally, I'm sick of hearing about rebuilding every year. I love the spin this organization puts on every year about how we are going to contend for a low seed in the playoffs. Especially, this year the new owners, Mullin (PR guy), BK, and Woodson. I wish they would hold a press conference telling us why they were so wrong to think that way.

Quit talking and start producing. That should be the moto.

Right now the only thing that is happening is losing. The last few games Smith looks like he is going through the motions. Lue is punching guys. Harrington is producing his standard numbers, almost like he is punching a clock in a dead job. Childress has shown flashes, even though he still can't hit a jump shot and create his own shot.

The only other guy worth mentioning is Diaw. This has been the only benefit. He is the only one that has played well of late. Yet, he is always considered an afterthought on this board. We want to sing the praises of Childress, Harrington, and Smith. He goes unnoticed. Even with what he has been doing the last few games.

Just stop the talk and start producing.

P

[troubleman]

What people need to understand is, this is only year 2 of the rebuilding process. Trading Reef, Hendu, Theo, JT, Rasheed, and Walker keeps us from being a losing team and over the cap, which is what the Hawks were from 1999-2004. Like the previous poster stated, the Hawks always believed they were one player away from making the playoffs, but honestly they were a shooting guard a legit point guard, bench, and small forward away from making the playoffs. The Hawks traded draft picks because they felt they were one player away, when in hindsight those draft picks would have kept them from being the lousy team they are right now. The traded picks, coupled with the wasted picks from the 90's is the main reason why the transition from Smitty, Mookie, and Deke was so poor.

Billy Knight and Hawks mgmt is doing it the right way. The Hawks have to be a bad team now, because of all the mistakes that were made by the previous regime. There is no way the Hawks should have traded two 1st round picks for Lorenzen Wright. There is no way the Hawks should have blown picks on Doug Edwards and others. There is no way the Hawks should have traded a pick for Big Dog. There is no way that Cal Bowdler should have been a first round pick. You are right in stating that none of the top free agents will want to sign here, but Billy Knight is acquiring young players via the draft, who in a couple of years (hopefully) will become special, and at that time guys like Chris Bosh might want to sign here. At least right now, they are able to contribute, which can't be said for Doug Edwards and Cal Bowdler, plus some of the other bad picks that I have forgotten. Thank god.

[Diesel]

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Here is another theory, What if we find out that those young players aren't that good? Is BK still a genius? What if no one wants to sign here? Is BK still a genius?

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I think it's a good thing if we do find out that the players we got aren't up to par. It allows us to go out and find better players. And nobody wants to sign here so we must gather talent by the draft and if we aren't that good, that means that at the least we can draft well.

Remain our good years?

What did we win?

We had a lot of overpaid jokers on the payroll who couldn't win. Then the window closed. I didn't agree with the way that Babcock rebuilt however, I do believe something had to be done. After Mookie left us he was in the league 2 more years. After Smitty left us, his mpg dropped significantly. Deke is the only one who got some success after leaving Atlanta and he hasn't been D.P.O.Y for a long time.

I think that what we needed to do is what BK done. Look at things and start over. Now, I'm not in 100% agreement with every move that BK makes. I wouldn't have draft Boris. I wouldn't have let Dickau go and I probably would have kept Walker. BUT, I think that the end will be that we are building right. As the GM, it's his job to lay out the vision then make moves to make the vision a reality. I believe that he has not diverted from his vision. IS he a genius.. NO.. But he does have a plan and he is moving forward with it. That, I can respect.

[chillzatl]

YOu can't take mid-level talent and add sub-midlevel talent and expect to win. You have to take a chance and try to find young talent that HAS the talent to develop into a standout player. We avoided doing this for YEARS and saw no improvement. We tried to do what so many teams in our position do, and fail at doing, and it did not work.

You talk about rebuilding like we've been doing it forever? We have not.. What we tried to do was AVOID true rebuilding by adding sub-midlevel talent to our already overpaid roster of mid-level talent (reef, JT, etc).

I'm glad we finally stopped pretending and did what had to be done. We took a damned chance. Sure, they may turn out to be "no good". But do you honestly believe that? Do you REALLY believe that Chillz and Smooth can't become stars? Sure you have to be realistic and have some small doubts.BUt you also have to recognize that we have some good young talent on this team that really only needs proper direction to reach that goal.

Right now we have something that this team hasn't had since...well, I can't remember when. We have an UNWRITTEN FUTURE. Our teams future isn't written on the legs and backs of OLD PLAYERS. It isn't written on players that have reached their talent peak. Again, you have to be somewhat cautious. But at the same time, it's hard not to be excited about what we have and what we get to see when they develop. You just have to have a little faith.

[Peoriabird]

Well stated responses by everyone!

[phoostal]

And if the players aren't up to par, guess what we just wasted another year. Hey chalk it up to rebuilding. There are no guarantees, but you never know.

I just think there needs to be a mixture of veterans and young guys. All we have our young guys. How are they ever going to learn and develop in the atmosphere they play in now?

Right now it does't seem like BK wants to add any veterans to the team. No, I'm not talking about a washed up K. Anderson or K. Willis.

For example Walker, personally I didn't care if we resigned him or dealed him away. Walker personally wanted to stay. We will find out that this isn't going to be the case for most veterans. At least Knight could have gotten something a little more than a conditional first rounder. A sign and trade may have brought back more in the off season.

P

[Peoriabird]

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And

I just think there needs to be a mixture of veterans and young guys. All we have our young guys. How are they ever going to learn and develop in the atmosphere they play in now?

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What part of we tried this before don't you get. It didn't work before so we at least owe it to ourself to accept a new approach!

[macdaddy]

We got something for Walker rather than having him around for 20 more games on the worst team in the league. While unlikely we could have Walker back for next season (unless there's a rule I don't know which is likely). He's a FA, liked it here, we make him happy by getting him into the playoffs with his old team. IF they don't want him we could sign him. I know it won't happen, but if it did we'd have a 1st plus Walker for nothing.

[swolehawk2]

You know what... we have had a lot of change the last 6 years or so....but through all the shuffling of players...we have not hired a coach that has proven he can coach in the NBA....we didn't know if Lon could or Stotts...and we don't know if Woodson can be successful as a head coach. Which comes first? Do we stick with former assistants and college coaches until we luck up on a franchise player...(who may be already on the roster)or do we go get a successful vet coach with a plan and the power to challenge what type of player is brought here? Also, does having a proven winner as a coach help in free agency no matter the record the previous year?

It will be interesting to see where this team will be in 3 or 4 years.

[TheDude]

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Once again guys, I know I'm in a minority. But I really don't understand BK or most of you who post. For some reason, you guys are tickled pink at losing Walker and getting nothing but a low draft pick for a predicted bad draft next year. You're ok with Peyton saying he doesn't want to play for us- a lousy team, and we even pay him money not to play for us. (Boy isn't that great!) Now we're not even competitive (losing by 20 points+) but you guys are all happy because you want us to lose so we get a high draft pick (for a lousy draft). So Bk is making us the worst team possible (we will probably set some kind of record this year) and you're ok with that. Meantime did you ever stop to think, noone (despite our caproom) will be interested in playing for the Hawks because they're a lousy team. Excuse me if I don't think BK is much of a genius. Excuse me if I disagree with you guys cheering your hearts out for us to lose!

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do you have a better plan?

[Peoriabird]

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You know what... we have had a lot of change the last 6 years or so....but through all the shuffling of players...we have not hired a coach that has proven he can coach in the NBA....we didn't know if Lon could or Stotts...and we don't know if Woodson can be successful as a head coach.

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We could have had Phil Jackson coaching the team this year and somehow I don't think even he could have gotten more out of Jason Collier, O. Ekezie, K. Willis or P. Drobniak. We have major personnel issues at center and power forward that need to be addressed over the next couple of years before we can win consistently. Patience is a virtue!

[emeans]

Well said CBA. You pretty much summed it up. Sometimes you have to go all the way to the bottom in order to go all the way to the top and we are just in a process that will hopefully get better and better as we get some experience.

We couldn't continue to give away draft picks and staying average every year. Lets do something through the draft now. Unfortunately it takes time for these guys to learn the game, but when they do.....watch out!!

[Diesel]

You can't win if you're not in the game.

I think we have seen how franchises have been changed by the addition of a good draft pick. What if San Antonio didn't lose enough to get Duncan? What about Cleveland and Lebron? And Denver getting Mello? Nobody talks about how INJURY helped Miami get Wade?

The point is that a whole franchise can change by the addition of one "potential" Star. However, if we settle for mediocrity year after Year and we never get to draft the Lebrons, Wades, or Mellos then we will always be mediocre. That's what happened in the Mookie, Smitty years. We were a 50 win team that couldn't push anymore. We had a knucklehead GM who couldn't put together a plan to win and who couldn't put together a team that could do anything to get better players...

Listen to this, I was thinking about it last night:

WATCH TORONTO

There's a Babcock in charge. They are on a path of win now and will not be in contention for a good draft pick... BUT they don't have the talent to win anything. Just watch them... They will finish just out of the playoffs. Bosh/Rose will continue to do well..BUT.. They will get no FAs and they will not draft smart. Watch them because they are what we could have been if BK wasn't driving this ship.

[Diesel]

Interest point Swole.

I think it's valid but the trend has been to get the team together first then add the winning coach to make his changes.. Sometimes, the game need new faces - Like Carlisle in Indy or dude in Phoenix. These new faces can add their approach. I say that you give Woody a shot. Make the team potable so that if Woody can't do it, we can add somebody who is better to coach. I would have liked to got Fratello here to teach these young guys but you never know, maybe he would have gotten frustrated like he did in Cleveland.

[phoostal]

Let's see where BK takes us. I'm willing to wait, because we have no option accept to wait.

I just love how almost everyone on this site thinks BK can do no wrong. I hope you are right.

I want the team to be a success. I guess I'm just a little more skeptical in my thinking. I'm not crowning this guy GM of the year for dumping salary and drafting guys in the lottery that have not proven themselves in the NBA.

I guess what I can't understand is how everyone on this site thinks BK is a genius for doing absolutely nothing.

Trade veterans like Wallace and Walker for the extra draft picks. Don't sign any free agents. Let's remember K. Martin turned us down. I know some people on the site will excuse this as we didn't want him anyways, however the fact remains he chose not to sign with the Hawks. I think this will be the case again this year. The guys we will get are the players that aren't proven, but marginal. So we are going to gamble that they turn their career around with a team that is constantly losing. You never know it may work.

Look at the Wizards. They did a great job of rebuilding through the draft. Oh yeah, they didn't they signed Arenas,traded for Hughes, Jamison, Heyword. Drafted Jefferies and Hayes. Wow, interesting they mixed draft picks with veterans. I think I was just attacked for making that suggestion.

Anyways we will see how it plays out. I just wouldn't be quick to tab BK as the "GOD of GM's" until he does something significant.

P

[tmac13]

BK is no more a expert than Babcock was an blithering idiot as far as GMs go. BK has made some good and bad moves, just like Babs did. We had some good teams in the Babs era, and we had some that sucked..So far, BK's teams just suck alot worse. I know I know, Babs traded Nique, we all seem to forget that Nique was on the downside his career and we actually had a better winning percentage AFTER we traded Nique that year..He also traded for Steve Smith and Mookie Blaylock, a very strong starting set of guards for years..He signed Deke, at the time is was a great move. He traded junk for Christian Laettner, who at the time was a very good starting popwer forward. Babs also made his share of bonehead trades and draft choices. We all know that sometimes its a crap shoot.

BK has done good, and bad.

He gutted the team for capspace, which we couldn't give away last year. May not be able to use it this year. He did so so with Chills, got lucky Smoove was still there, then blew it when he drafted Ivy over Duhon. Diaw was ok for a late 1st rounder, Travis Hansen had good potential but BK somehow let him walk. The Walker trade is iffy. If we get the draft choice this year, then it is a win, if not, then we missed an opportunity to do a sign and trade with Walker this summer, like we did for Harrington. We also could have kept Payton and used him for a sign and trade. Instead we buy him out so he can go back to Boston, help them win, and make our draft choice even worse if we get it this year.

There are many more examples in both directions, both good and bad for BK and Babs. Babs was very talkative, which sometimes made him seem gullable, BK is just an ass, which makes some of you think he is crafty and clever..Only time will tell.