Chill the right pick?

[Jdawgflow]

Posted this in the other Chill vs. Iggy thread but it got locked. I think it is relevent so I will post it again. Here it is:

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"I think something that has not yet been mentioned is a comparison of the leadership qualities of these two players. Just looking at stats, these players are very similar. I know some have said that Iggy looks much better in person, but even so, these guys are not that much different.

I think back to the quotes I have read recently on this board, particularly the one by Esteban Batista about how Chill is such a good guy. Chill is a leader on this team. I think he will be a team captain next year. With Iggy, I am not sure what his leadership qualities are.

I will admit that just looking at these guys on the court, Iggy might be slightly better. But overall, I will take Chill all day long because he brings the intangibles to this team. We need a leader and I think we have drafted one. "

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[Dukegotgame]

chillz i had made me want to shoot him at times, but he clearly is getting better and i really think he can become a great player.

[Final_quest]

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He is more athletic than Deng or Iggy.

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You have got to be kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In what way is he more athletic than Iggy?

Iggy is stronger, faster, more coordinated, bigger, jumps higher, etc.

Chillz probably has a longer reach, and might be a little taller, but more athletic!?! Give me a break!

[Johnnybravo4]

How do you know that Iggy is stronger. Allegedly Childress has the strongest bench on the team. He may be wirey

[DJlaysitup]

I think (or I should say guess) that Chillz is plenty strong to handle himself in the NBA. He also seems to have a good competitive attitude. He's a good asset for the Hawks.

That being said...I was ready to trade him for an old hound dog when he threw away that inbounds pass late in the 4th quarter last night and almost let LA get back to even.

(he made up for it though

[Lascar78]

yeah he threw multiple inbounds passes away last night didn't he? That's crazy. We've seemed clueless on inbounding the ball all season. Spend a week on it if you have to Woody, that's unacceptable

[Hoosier]

No, I was not kidding. One of the best indicators of athleticism to me, is offensive rebounding, except in the case of someone like Pachulia that gets most of his offensive boards off of his own too frequent misses (still like him though).

Deng is a good shot blocker because of his reach, but is not an above average NBA athlete. Iggy has a very good reach also, not sure about his vertical, but I have watched him many times without being overly impressed with the way he's finished. Chill had a 35" vertical in Chicago with a 6'11" wingspan. So much for all of that, who would you say is the best finisher of the three? I know the answer let's see if you do. Finishing is another parameter of athleticism.

Maybe Diesel or Walter can give us some of the test results from the Chicago pre-draft.

[exodus]

Childress was the slowest wing player tested the last two years.

However he benched 185 lbs 12 times compared to Iggy and Deng who were around 5 i believe.

Childress' 36" vertical beat iggy's 34.5 and Dengs 31.5.

[Lascar78]

I would say that Iggy and Deng are definitely more athletic than Chill, but that's not saying much as all 3 are tremendous athletes.

[Duff_Man]

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yeah he threw multiple inbounds passes away last night didn't he? That's crazy. We've seemed clueless on inbounding the ball all season. Spend a week on it if you have to Woody, that's unacceptable

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I remember Boris throwing quite a few of those away last year, too. I always get nervous on inbounds passes.

[drzachary]

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yeah he threw multiple inbounds passes away last night didn't he? That's crazy. We've seemed clueless on inbounding the ball all season. Spend a week on it if you have to Woody, that's unacceptable

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I remember Boris throwing quite a few of those away last year, too. I always get nervous on inbounds passes.

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Magic Diaw? IMPOSSIBLE!!! ZUT ALORS!!!!

[Lascar78]

hahahaha

[TheNorthCydeRises]

MW . . . they don't hear you man.

It's like some of these fans completely forgot how Childress played in the final 2 months of last year, when Walker was gone and Al was hurt half the time.

The reason why people were on Childress so much earlier this season, was because we ALL THOUGHT that he was a much better player than what he was showing back in November.

I was CONVINCED after what I saw last season, that Childress could come right in and average 15 ppg and 7 rebs as a starter on this team. Why? Because that's basically what he did in March and April of last year.

The same argument people use for Smoove starting in place of Al when he leaves, seems to not apply to Childress. Like his production would stay the same or fall off even more when he left. LOL.

Chill will probably end up being a high quality 6th man on this team, but he's also a guy who could easily average 14 ppg and 6 - 7 rebs, if he took more shots.

And people act like Iggy doesn't benefit TREMENDOUSLY from playing with Allen Iverson. LOL . . Imagine Chill playing with Iverson in Philly. How good would the guy be then?

Iggy's per 48 minute stats:

15.1 points

7.5 rebounds

3.4 assists

1.9 steals

2.1 turnovers

Chill's per 48 minute stats:

15.5 points

8.7 rebounds

2.8 assists

2.1 steals

2.2 turnovers

Plus Chill shoots almost 55% FG ( almost unheard of for a swingman ) and 50% from 3.

And he does all of that without the services of a dominant ball handler who commands all types of attention like Iverson . . and a big man who is still one of the best passing big men in the game, in Webber.

Yet, some of you will argue until you are blue in the face that Iggy is easily a better player than Chill. To me, they're damn near equal.

Question: Would Iggy start for the Hawks, and if so, where, and who would currently be coming off the bench? And if he didn't start, what would be his numbers?

Chill was the obvious pick for this franchise, seeing that he was an experienced player coming out of Stanford, and widely regarded as one of the best players in the country at the time.

Chill's role in the NBA will be a lot like Shane Battier's, in the sense that neither will put up explosive offensive numbers. They'll just be soild players that you can depend on night after night.

[Hoosier]

I think it is a matter of frustrated Hawks fans seeing the proverbial "grass is greener" scenario. But, you say "definitely", I would like to hear what your criteria for athleticism is, and how they would definitely be more athletic?

[Lascar78]

It's really not a grass is greener. This isn't about b!tching that we made the wrong draft pick. I really like Chill and expect him to be a hawk for a long long time.

I think we all know what athletic means. I think Deng and Iggy can jump higher, I think they can run faster and make direction changes quicker, I think they are stronger even though Chill could apparently bench more pre-draft. That's just my opinion based on having seen them all play. I made this thread to see if others agree (I thought it was obvious at the time), and it appears that it's roughly 50-50

That doesn't mean that I lament having Chill as a hawk. I love his attitude. I love his scrappiness. I love all the little things he does. He could easily be the best of the bunch if he learns to be more assertive and look for his own points even when there are other good players around him, not just when he's absolutely forced to.

I just pride myself in being objective and happen to think that Iguodala is a better player as of today, and is more athletic. Not by much, but I do think he's better. As for Deng I hate his game, but he probably is better than Chill overall, and I really think he is more athletic.

Are we really so sensitive that it is taboo to say that another player from the same draft as one of our players could possibly be better or more athletic?

[exodus]

In your entire post you never mention the fact that there are two sides to the court.

Iggy became a starter because Big Dog, who they brought in to be the starter, couldn't score worth a crap on Iggy. neither could guys in preseason. THAT is the reason he started his rookie year. I doubt seriously that Childress would have started there.

I have seen him harrass guys like Pierce and Kobe into horrible shooting nights, and as a team Philly is weak defensively so it wasn't like he has a lot of help.

And Iverson is one of the biggest ball hogs in NBA history. They have had major trouble finding guys who can play well with him because he dominates the ball so much. Not very conducive for a young guys scoring.

While Childress has improved this year I still don't see him keeping up well with 2s and 3s that are much quicker than him.

How many times has Childress blown by a defender off the dribble?

*crickets*

How many times has Childress had someone blow by him off the dribble? Happens all the time.

[exodus]

When we drafted Iguodala ninth in the 2004 draft, we were surprised to get a player whom our personnel people had rated much higher. Going into training camp I had Glenn Robinson penciled in as our starter at the small forward spot and Iguodala behind him by a large margin. Robinson, a career 20.8 ppg scorer, seemed hungry to get his career back on track and we thought he would win the job fairly easily. What transpired was not what we expected. Robinson had difficulty scoring on Iguodala throughout training camp, and so did the players the rookie guarded during the exhibition games. It became clear to our staff that it would be difficult for us to open the season without Iguodala starting. He was by the far the best perimeter defender on our team and he brought an energy and unselfishness to the floor that was a perfect complement for the senior A.I.

Iguodala not only started the opener, he started all 82 games and averaged 33.4 mpg. Every night out, he would be matched against the opponent's best perimeter player. One night it could be Vince Carter, the next, Paul Pierce. He stayed constantly on an even keel. He added to his experience by starting against the Pistons in the first round of the playoffs.

The first day Iguodala came to Philadelphia after the draft, I had breakfast with his parents and his brother Frank, who was moving to town to live with him. In retrospect, it is clear that his family was a large reason that he kept his focus the entire year. His mother was very aware of the potential pitfalls that he had to sidestep. She assured me, in front of Andre, that her son was ready to get the job done, with an assist from his brother, a recent graduate and former player at the University of Dayton.

It was still surprising that Iguodala never got close to running into the proverbial "rookie wall." The mythical wall gets slammed into after the All-Star break. The thought is that first-year players are not used to playing 82 games in such a short period of time. The 48 minutes a game and constant travel are also contributors. In many cases, they hit the wall not only because of the demands on their bodies, but because of the challenge of staying mentally in the game over the long haul.

[Hoosier]

Oh come on now, I made my point...which you challenged without saying why, and I asked for a clarification. Sensitive?

Chill jumps higher than the other two, thats a fact. He's stronger than the other two, that's a fact. Now the others made have subtle aspects to their build which give them different athletic attributes, thats a fact.

But how does overall athleticism translate to results in the NBA. Would you not agree that offensive rebounding would meet one of those criteria? How do they rank vs minutes played? Who are the best finishers?

Maybe you believe steals and blocks are a better criteria? Chill does ok there to, per minutes played.

[CHORO44]

We have Childress if you love Andre root for the Sixers.

Damn does no one love Chill. I think he has game just needs more aggression and minutes. We play zero help/team D so our defense looks worse than it is.

[Lascar78]

I really don't feel like dragging this on further, arguing against a player I like a lot, but I can't let an argument go.

First of all, the only measurements we have are of a year and a half ago, and I doubt they still apply.

For argument's sake, Chill was 7% slower than Iggy in the agility test while he only jumped 4% higher. In terms of strength, yeah Chill lifted more than Iguodala, but Iguodala looks a lot stronger out there. It is also supposedly easier for guys with long arms to bench more. Everyone even at the time was surprised of his results that day as he was known to be stronger and a higher jumper than that. Maybe he's not good at jumping off of both legs, who knows? I do know that overall strength is not determined by bench press. I do know that Iggy looks a lot stronger, plays stronger, dunks harder, and doesn't get pushed around as much. I don't have numbers because all we have is one day's numbers from a while ago.

Look at them and tell me Iguodala doesn't seem stronger

Even if they jump roughly the same height, I would bet my life that Iggy is stronger and faster, which to me means more athletic.

In terms of it translating to the NBA game, I don't think there's any stat that shows athleticism. Smoove uses his athleticism for dunks and blocks, Chill uses his more for steals and rebounds. There is no athleticism stat.

But again, I love Chill and am not trying to bash him, I just think Iggy is better and more athletic as of today, and apparently many disagree. I will say this, if he was always as proactive as he was last night, chill would be the better player