Hawks to swap picks/Marvin for Iverson?

[Vol4ever]

I agree 110%. We don't need a cancer! I would not give up the future in Marvin for a punk!

[unknownjdb]

Many posters on this board, including myself, have stated that we have the proper structure to have a scoring PG now that we have Johnson. Many people want JT back, I was and probably still am interested in Francis (who is an upgraded JT), and then everyone throughs a fuss when discussing Iverson (the ULTIMATE JT) coming here.

Really, how horribly does it hurt us? I don't believe it does and I'd honestly consider completing this trade and then resign Harrington in the off-season. Yes, we still need to address getting an interior defensive man but it's likely that O'Bryant, Simmons or Armstrong is available at 13 but really I'd pick Sene.

As Diesel said, we have a better "team" than Philly when considering Iverson in the lineup. Johnson, as mentioned above, is the perfect guard to play along side him and Harrington could become a TRUE second option (Johnson moving to our third, staying moreso behind the line). Smith will scrap for his rebounds and get his points where he can and Zaza will do what he did this past season. Childress comes in as a Mike Miller type and Salim can learn from Iverson (becoming him when it's time for Iverson to move on).

Iverson | Stoudamire | Ivey

Johnson | Childress | Gundy

Smith | Childress | D.Smith

Harrington | Boone | Batista

Pachulia | Edwards | Sene

Whereas Philly is currently...

Ollie | Green | Williams

Iverson | Korver

Iguodala | Salmons | Barnes

Webber | Randolph | Bradley

Dalembert | Hunter

Now, it just may be because I'm a Hawks fan, but we seem to be set up much better for Iverson.

After the trade, Philly is...

Lue | Green

Iquodala | Korver

Marvin Williams | Salmons

Webber | S.Williams

Dalembert | Hunter

A PG away from a d@mn good half-court team.

You all can say what you want but once Iverson steps onto Atlanta's homecourt, HIS homecourt, you'll be cheering. The WHOLE city will be screaming "Finally, finally we have a Superstar to cheer for!" and when we're above .500 and every team is afraid to play Atlanta because "their so d@mn scrappy" no one will ever remember NOT wanting Iverson in a Hawks uniform.

[DrReality]

Why don't you just make one post that has every possible trade scenario for Marvin and get it over with. It would spare us all this b.s.

[KB21]

See, I just don't see how anyone can think Allen Iverson can coexist with Al Harrington and Joe Johnson. They are not just defensive role players. Like I said below, the only time Philly has been successful with AI is when they have surrounded him with players that make little to no impact offensively. AI can't have shots taken away from him, or else he becomes a malcontent. I mean, how many more scorers does he have to have a problem with before some of you believe that he simply can't coexist with anyone else that is an offensive player?

Jason Terry may be a scoring point guard, but he's not a selfish player that gets a bad attitude when someone takes more shots than he does.

[Buzzard]

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For something to work, we'd have to send Marvin/Lue/#5 to Philly.

Philly send AI/#13 to Atlanta.

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My questions:

Why is this the "only" way for this to happen and just as importantly, why do you think BK wants Iverson?

I can answer the 2nd one easily: He does not want Iverson. Iverson is not long or versatile. He is a short shooting guard and a great scorer. As much as I like Iverson, I just do not think BK wants to go in that direction...

The 1st question is even easier. This is not going to happen. BK would be hung out to dry if he let Marvin and a #5 go for peanuts (#13) and a aging scorer. Marvin and a #5 is to much to give for a player that will be past his prime in three to four years. Furthermore, the #13 is not going to get us our needed big.

Diesel, this just sounds really desperate on your part:

A #2 and a #5 for a old but competent scorer and a #13, no way that happens. That should not even happen in your world. Just a total disaster of a trade, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

[TheDude]

personally i think Joe Johnson is more than a "role player" and Josh Smith is on his way to being more than that also.

[HawksFan87]

I like AI but I prefer not to give up any of our young players for him. Marvin has'nt got the chance to prove himself yet.

[y2kenta]

You guys don't know how AI would fit in here in ATL because he's not here (YET) and you don't know what his attitude would be at this stage in his career. I think he's at his prime and approaching his peak, so I think he'll be hungrier than ever to win a ring.

He never ran guys out of PHI. Management chose AI. Hughes was young, still learning and undeveloped. He still learned a lot about the NBA game from playing AI, especially defensively. Stackhouse couldn't coexist because he always wanted the ball and still kinda has those same habits of taking bad shots and dribbling too much.

I'd love to have Iverson here and none you guys could honestly say that AI + JJ + Smoove + Zaza + Marvin wouldn't get us to the playoffs next year and for years to come. You also can't honestly say that you wouldn't get to Phillips every chance you get to see us whoop ass!!!

You can't help but look at the fact that no teams can stop AI, a lot of teams can't stop JJ (scoring or playmaking), so how many could stop them together? I don't care what the dummies say, I'm all for it. I'd give up the #5 pick in a heartbeat also because no one player in this can bring what AI would. BANK ON THAT!!!

[Buzzard]

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I'd give up the #5 pick in a heartbeat

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Sure, but a #5 and Marvin? Forget about it!

[ATLBob]

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Marvin and a #5 is to much to give for a player that will be past his prime in three to four years.

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Yeah, when the local car dealership has a clearance sale, you don't go offer them last year's Maxima and cash for an early 90s Miata.

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Furthermore, the #13 is not going to get us our needed big.

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O'Bryant might fall there. Sene would be a decent pick at 13. I think I'd prefer Sene at this point.

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Diesel, this just sounds really desperate on your part: A #2 and a #5 for a old but competent scorer and a #13, no way that happens.

That should not even happen in your world.

Just a total disaster of a trade, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

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Haha ...

[Wurider05]

I read that the Hawks will not give up Marvin. Diesel seems to pick out the parts of a rumor that suits his anti-Marvin campaign. Just because The sixers want him that doesn't mean that the rumors of us offering him are true. DAMN DUDE Marvin must have stolen your girlfriend or something. Anyone think that if we get Iverson we become the Sixers. They had two bigtime big men and pass first pg and they didn't even make the playoff. AI stunts young talent. How could anyone say different. You name one guy who developed into a good player since Iverson has been in Philly and winning the slam dunk competition doesn't count. The train has passed on AI. It is a gamble we can't afford to take.

[Diesel]

Actually...

I had an eye on the salary involved in the matter.

Marvin is the 3rd highest paid player we have under contract. We can't trade Al on draft day. I said an exchange of picks, Marvin and Lue for AI. Tha'ts about as close as we can get salarywise other than including maybe Edwards...

With Al being a free agent, we just can't absorb the 17 million dollars.

[Yeti]

If we made such a stupid move, I've been to my last Hawks game. AI was a great scorer and if we had everything else in place it might make sense. But bringing him in would end the development of the young guys just to get a (marginal) increase in ticket sales for 1 or 2 years. Then we are back to years of rebuilding again. I'd expect the short-term profit approach from Belkin but not BK.

And trading our #2 pick Marvin and #5 pick for AI is just ridiculous. I'm not sure I'd want him and his salary for free.

[Johnnybravo4]

I'll gladly take your seat.

It is funny that people say that he could exist with a star. What star? Larry Hughes? He is on his 3rd team after clashing with Gilbert Arenas and not being able to help Cleveland this year. And he wasn't ready yet anyway.

Jerry Stackhouse? There is a reason why he is a sixth man. He is a chucker, always has been. You can't pair A.I. with a chucker, I will give you that. JJ is not a chucker.

[Wretch]

I don't know that there is a bigger AI fan on this board. I fell in love with his game when we traded Deke to the Sixers watching them advance to the finals. I really don't care what anyone says about his ballhogging or attitude; he plays with fire, desire, and incredible heart. He's tough and fearless to a fault. AI goes out there every night, hurt or not, and gives everything he has and then some. AI doesn't pretend to be anything more than what he is and he has been my favorite basketball player for years. I would have loved for him to be a Hawk...six years ago.

He isn't the "answer" for the new Hawks. He was Philly's franchise saving lottery pick back during a time when our philosophy was "win without losing." It was during these years that we were just good enough to make the playoffs, just overmatched enough to get smacked around in the first round, and never quite bad enough to draft a KG, Iverson, or Duncan. Ironically, Iverson is just talented enough, and has enough juice left, to take this group of players back to that level. Problem is, he is on the downside of his career. If we're lucky, then after a few years of fine tuning, we'll be ready to challenge the east. During which time, AI - with all the punishment his body has taken over the years - will be clocking in around 34 - 35 years old.

God forbid, we look to free agency to shore up any holes we have. For, it will be sought after much like it was with the Deke/Smitty/Mookie teams...

When we begged guys like Rick Fox to take our mid level exception...

When we paid peanuts to guys like Ty Corbin...

When we took on damaged goods like the Snake...

When we drafted guys mid to late in the 1st like Roshown McCleod and Doug Edwards...

That would be our future as we would certainly be capped out with AI and what we pay for the talent we decide to keep. In true to Babcock-like form, we'd mortgage the future to get immediate help - for we don't know what this #5, and Marvin/Chill would do in Philly 5 or 6 years from now when they are just then approaching their peak.

It will be a sad day when we prepare to put Iverson on the shelf. They would be retiring Allen Iverson's Jersey in Philly...on the same night that Brandon Roy and Marvin/Chill help them clinch homecourt through the playoffs.

AI is a bandaid fix. We need heart surgery. I love the guy's game, but no thanks on any AI deal that involves mortgaging our future.

[Johnnybravo4]

He is on the downside despite avg more points and assist than at anytime of his career?

Even if he is on his downside, what is he going to go down to 25pts and 6 apg? He isn't going to all of a sudden fall apart and turn into a 10ppg 3 assist player. He is veteran enough to be able to adjust his game, similar to Mike, who was just as productive in his mid 30's.

I think that it is funny that some people are against A.I. at 31 but want to add Sam Cassell who is damn near 50

[drzachary]

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He is on the downside despite avg more points and assist than at anytime of his career?

Even if he is on his downside, what is he going to go down to 25pts and 6 apg? He isn't going to all of a sudden fall apart and turn into a 10ppg 3 assist player. He is veteran enough to be able to adjust his game, similar to Mike, who was just as productive in his mid 30's.

I think that it is funny that some people are against A.I. at 31 but want to add Sam Cassell who is damn near 50

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Yeah, I think there's a possibility that AI continues to adjust his game as he gets older... I just don't know how probable that is?

I am not clamoring for AI, but I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if we got him.

I'm also in the camp that believes that he hasn't had a player of JJ's quality with him in the backcourt, and they probably could do wonders together.

[Wretch]

I made no mention of Casell and honestly haven't given it any thought. Though, I also find it funny that you compare two players...with multi-million dollar difference between them and a substantially larger difference in value. What it would cost to secure Cassel vs. what it would cost to secure Iverson is not even worth discussing.

...and yes, he is on the downside of his career. His body will catch up with his mind sooner than later (much sooner). At which time, we will have given Philly our future while preparing to rewrite our own. Again.

[Diesel]

I believe he's on the down side of his career, but I don't think it's a rapid progression towards being unuseful or always injured. How old was Jordan when people realized that he had lost a step?

At that age, if you could have Jordan on your team, would you have wanted him?

I think there are some players who transcend the game. Iverson at 31 to me is not so bad. I think he has 4 to 5 more productive years in him. That's good because his contract is only 3 more years long. He still works out in the summer with Jameer Nelson. He's still one of the fastest guys in the league. He's still more than just a one trick player. His scoring average may fall from 33 ppg, however, I think he would still be a guy that the defenses would have to plan for.

When you consider everything, he could be the answer for Atlanta.

What are we holding money for?? To give Magloire a big deal?

Iverson has star power and we know that's something this city has always lacked in basketball. Iverson on the Hawks would be as big as Vick on the Falcons.

[Johnnybravo4]

Exactly, if we only get 3 or 4 years of Prime Iverson....so what? Everybody on the team won't be 10 year Hawks players. Statistically most of the current Hawks won't be Hawks 5 years from now.

But we have been rebuilding for so long we don't know when to stop. Guys here keep looking for "raw" athletes and project players. We need a transcendant star player.

Do you think that Miami has benefited from having picked up Shaq on the "downside" of his career. He got them a championship, and a ECF appearance. And oh yeah although he costs a sh*tload of cap space, his benefit to the franchise financially is probably incalcuable. A.I. could have that same effect here.