Convince me Horford can be our CENTER!

[exodus]

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Horford draws so much more fouls that he'll score much more free throw pts and will help the team from the line a lot more than SW. You care about the minor things more when it supports your cause.

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Horford hasn't taken any foul shots the last two games.

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Horford outplayed Jefferson in the second half

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LOL so you were in Minny and attended the game? How did Horford outplay Jefferson when Jefferson had 23/16 and Horford had 6/7? LOL

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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This kid has something special around him.

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It's called hype and it doesn't last.

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...and frankly, I don't see how he got it. That NCAA title was a team effort. Al is a good, prototypical NBA Pf, but he isn't an NBA center and he is does not have superstar potential nor is he a mismatch advantage no matter where you play him (much less at center).

Horford was "the player most like SW" in this year's draft, the good and bad of it. I wish we learned from our mistakes.

W

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LOL . . maybe you should ask Billy Donovan about the player he could do most without. And Noah received far more "hype" than Al did. But when people actually started watching Al play, and the different skill sets he brought to the table, it was obvious who was the better player.

[Nicholasp27]

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That is just it. I am not seeing that big impact from Horford. He is a liability on offense

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how is he a liability on offense?he scores >50% of the timehe draws fouls 18% of the timehe isn't some black hole on offense or someone who tries to do too muchhis ONLY problem offensively is that he doesn't get enough touches each game...once he's fed in the post a few times/game, he'll EASILY be a double-digit scorer

[jerrywest]

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Horford outplayed Jefferson in the second half

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LOL so you were in Minny and attended the game? How did Horford outplay Jefferson when Jefferson had 23/16 and Horford had 6/7? LOL

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If you heard the game on radio you would have heard Scott praising Horford for his 2nd half. If you just look at the boxscore all you'll see is 23/16 & 6/7. Jefferson had went 6/6 fg and 7/7 ft in the first half. He was basically shut down in the second half.

[jerrywest]

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That is just it. I am not seeing that big impact from Horford. He is a liability on offense

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how is he a liability on offense?he scores >50% of the timehe draws fouls 18% of the timehe isn't some black hole on offense or someone who tries to do too muchhis ONLY problem offensively is that he doesn't get enough touches each game...once he's fed in the post a few times/game, he'll EASILY be a double-digit scorer

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Thanks for the PER in your earlier post about Horford's comparison to Ben Wallace's DPOY season. That's amazing.

[AtLaS]

No use in arguing with Ex, he's as stubborn as a mule. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_Wg8klYANQSince Horford hasn't made some all-star impact in his first 12 games as a rookie, he feels the need to bash him everyday. It's funny that he calls Diesel the agendaman with Marvin, yet ex is doing the exact same thing with Horford. Just start bashing Conley, since that's who ex wanted.

[exodus]

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Jefferson had went 6/6 fg and 7/7 ft in the first half. He was basically shut down in the second half.

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Then basically Horford was shut down for the entire game.

[exodus]

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how is he a liability on offense?he scores >50% of the time

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So did Kwame last year. He shot 59% but was still a liability on offense. When you play 32 minutes and score 8.5 points that sucks. The other rookies in the top 10 are beating that.

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he draws fouls 18% of the time

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He has gotten to the line TWICE in the last three games. And he shoots 61% from the line.

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once he's fed in the post a few times/game, he'll EASILY be a double-digit scorer

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Once again getting credit for something he hasn't done. It has to be someone else's fault, not his. Tomorrow i will count how many times he catches the ball in a half court set.

[jerrywest]

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Jefferson had went 6/6 fg and 7/7 ft in the first half. He was basically shut down in the second half.

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Then basically Horford was shut down for the entire game.

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No. Horford was all over the court playing a total game. Jefferson was God in the first half but Zaza in the second half. In 2nd half Jefferson went 2/7 with crucial turnovers. He was just out of the game. He didn't make any FT in the 2nd half either. Again you had to follow the live game to understand Horford's impact. Actually, I think I'll turn down the TV sounds from now on. Radio commentators seem so much more alive and don't care about being politically correct so much.

[exodus]

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No. Horford was all over the court playing a total game.

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Hopefully his next "total game" will include more points and rebounds. he keeps putting up 6/7 i will have to start calling him Shelford.

[AtLaS]

At least in Diesel's agenda, he had a good argument because it was so obvious that we made a mistake by passing on Paul/Deron.Exodus is just bashing Horford because he hates him. Just turn it around and start asking him what Conley's doing.

[Duff_Man]

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No. Horford was all over the court playing a total game.

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Hopefully his next "total game" will include more points and rebounds. he keeps putting up 6/7 i will have to start calling him Shelford.

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When do we get to start calling you "Dieseldus"?

[jerrywest]

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No. Horford was all over the court playing a total game.

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Hopefully his next "total game" will include more points and rebounds. he keeps putting up 6/7 i will have to start calling him Shelford.

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Hopefully, but when was the last time Shelden had a total game?Horf went 3/4 75% most of it from offensive rebounds. He got 4 offensive rebounds in the game. Nobody was setting him up for shots, nor was he getting any plays called for him.Hawks and Wolves had 37 rebounds each, but Hawks basically outrebounded Wolves if you go by % (which is better) because we had 4 more offensive rebounds. It was a group effort as MW+JC had 12 rebounds. Not like the other team overpowered Horf+Smoove. Wolves funneled rebounds to Jefferson.You are looking at the numbers at the surface level. A couple of Marvin's early shots didn't fall in the first half and he was also out of the line up when the hawks blew them away, since Chillz+Smoove+Horf were playing awesome. However, Marvin was the one who started the run when he out scored Wolves 8-0 early 3rd quarter. If you just look at the stat you won't understand it. One SmooveNameSake fan started bashing Marvin at the end of the game in the game-thread and ended up apologizing because she just looked at the stats. Its hard to understand anything from numbers alone unless the numbers are sufficiently large.

[exodus]

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No. Horford was all over the court playing a total game.

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Hopefully his next "total game" will include more points and rebounds. he keeps putting up 6/7 i will have to start calling him Shelford.

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When do we get to start calling you "Dieseldus"?

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When i keep dogging Horford even when he actually starts scoring more than Kwame, or when i keep harping on who we didn't draft.

I really didn't gripe when Horford was drafted even though i wanted someone else. And i said before the season that i was hopefull that he could in time average 15 ppg along with 9/10 rebounds while shooting a good percentage and being an above average defender.

What i have seen so far is making me more and more pessimistic. If you are going to have a guy out on the floor for 32 minutes who doesn't score he should at least be able to slow his man down on defense.

In order for him to start scoring I believe he is going to have to change his style. His back to the basket game doesn't look good enough to work consistently against guys who are as big or bigger.

I would like to see him looking to face guys up more often. The really big key is whether or not he can hit that 15 foot J with consistency. If he can then guys will be forced to come out on him and he can use his speed to get to the rim.

The way he is playing now on offense pretty much takes away his speed advantage over other players. It doesn't matter how quick you are when you are banging into someone repeatedly.

[oiatlhawksfan]

Ex, what is Conley doing?

[jerrywest]

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he should at least be able to slow his man down on defense.

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That's a blatant lie.Did you read Nic's earlier post about his PER in comparison to Ben Wallace's 04-05 season?

[exodus]

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he should at least be able to slow his man down on defense.

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That's a blatant lie.Did you read Nic's earlier post about his PER in comparison to Ben Wallace's 04-05 season?

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I will say to you, as i have said to him repeatedly, that all PER and +/- stats are irrelevant at this time of year. When Amare sat out a season the Suns got off to a good start. Just out of curiosity i checked their stats on 82games.com. Both Nash and Marion had a +/- of -20. Just a week ago Horfords stats were showing that the Hawks scored 20 ppg fewer when he was playing. Does that sound right?

[exodus]

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Ex, what is Conley doing?

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Right now he is hurt. But i certainly wouldn't mind having his 5 to 1 assist to turnover ratio, his 47% shooting or his 82% foul shooting. But that's just me, and he really hasn't played enough to get a good gage on what he can do.

[jerrywest]

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he should at least be able to slow his man down on defense.

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That's a blatant lie.Did you read Nic's earlier post about his PER in comparison to Ben Wallace's 04-05 season?

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I will say to you, as i have said to him repeatedly, that all PER and +/- stats are irrelevant at this time of year.

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Since you understand the weaknesses of small sample, why do you go nuts over the Minnesota game without following the game live? That PER has more weight than your 6/7 mantra.Haven't you seen enough of Horford's defense to reallize that he has slowed down opponent centers to a certain degree? How do you ignore your own eyes?

[TheDude]

Why I think Horford can play center for us?Well because one month into his rookie season and he already is showing it.