Ref fixing NBA games? Feds investigating...

[sturt]

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Has Stern really admitted telling refs how frequently they should call fouls for or against certain refs?

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...and/or the HS archives for my dialogue with Lascar, who evidently has substantial addidas stock holdings and can't stand for the league to take a hit.

I think you'll find that Stern admitted some things that one wouldn't want to admit because they ordinarily prompt further questions about who, when, what, and how... but for whatever reason, the story dropped like a San Antonio Spur in the lane in a Phoenix Sun game, and Cuban and Van Gundy hushed up, so the press didn't think there was any more story to report.

[hawkman]

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Or how about Derek Fisher getting a turn around jumper off to win a playoff game vs. the Spurs with 0.4 seconds left on the clock? That's less than half a second. Is that even friggin possible?

It's hard enough to get a regular jumper off in that amount of time, nevermind doing a complete 180 and then shooting.

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Are you suggesting that the San Antonio game clock operator wanted the Lakers to win?

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No, I'm not saying that. But I expect the refs to use some common sense in a game that big. It is IMPOSSIBLE to shoot a turn around jump shot in less than half a second.

[Lascar78]

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No, I'm not saying that. But I expect the refs to use some common sense in a game that big. It is IMPOSSIBLE to shoot a turn around jump shot in less than half a second.

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It is also impossible for the shot clock guy to hit the button right away. Which is why they made the rule that you need 0.4 to catch and shoot, otherwise it needs to be a tip in. It's a home team guy, he hit as fast as he can, then it's a matter of getting the shot off before the buzzer. He got it off before the buzzer, which is what the refs had to decide, and they got it right.

If you're blaming the league for the rules, it's a different story and really is irrelevant when talking about tainted refereeing.

[Lascar78]

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Has Stern really admitted telling refs how frequently they should call fouls for or against certain refs?

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...and/or the HS archives for my dialogue with Lascar, who evidently has substantial addidas stock holdings and can't stand for the league to take a hit.

I think you'll find that Stern admitted some things that one wouldn't want to admit because they ordinarily prompt further questions about who, when, what, and how... but for whatever reason, the story dropped like a San Antonio Spur in the lane in a Phoenix Sun game, and Cuban and Van Gundy hushed up, so the press didn't think there was any more story to report.

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Oooh, what happened to the sturt who claims to be above personal insults etc...?

Anyhow, I noticed you conveniently forgot to respond to AHF's claim.

You said Stern "by his own admission, regularly has dictated the degree to which refs should be blowing whistles and even for particular players". Quite an outlandish statement! So AHF asks "Has Stern really admitted telling refs how frequently they should call fouls for or against certain [players]". Since he has admitted that he regularly does this, I think you could find quotes easily. Yet no response (it's a yes or no question), and no quotes. Amazing!

Mark Cuban sent in a video of plays in which he thought Yao and Dikembe were setting moving screens that weren't being called. Any team is allowed to do this although Mark Cuban is known to do this far more than anyone else. The NBA reviewed the plays and issued a directive to refs to watch out for moving screens that were being missed (no particular teams, much less players mentionned of course).

I find it hilarious that you claim that you line-up behind Cuban in your anti-Stern (oops, I mean "the Tyrant") rants. Do you even know what Cuban's stance was? Here are some quotes:

-Cuban, who has been fined more than $1 million since buying the team five years ago, said in an e-mail that the accusations were "crazy" and "an insult to officials." He also noted that Dallas center Erick Dampier has picked up quick fouls in every game in this series.

-"They don't officiate individual players differently," Cuban wrote.

-"So if anything, he has it completely backward," Cuban said.

link

Link 2

But hey, whatever works for your argument.

So again, we'll wait for your response to AHF's question, and I'm sure you've got multiple quotes "by his own admission".

In the meantime, here's a Stu Jackson quote:

"No such directive was given to the officials regarding Yao Ming or any other player or team in the playoffs," NBA vice president Stu Jackson said in a statement

[Duff_Man]

An interesting post from 2004 regarding Phil Jackson's disgust with the refs...

Edit: also, Shaq called the outcome "predetermined".

Interesting

[pimp]

Baseball........Umpire Eric Gregg

Anyone remember about 10 years ago, at the 1997 NLCS

between the Braves and the Marlins?

He gave Levon Hernadez the biggest strikezone ever.

Anything between the batter and the dugout was called a

strike.

[exodus]

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Yet no response (it's a yes or no question), and no quotes. Amazing!

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Color me shocked. I am sure the High Priest of Logic and Reason just simply forgot to answer the simple yes or no question. No way it would be an attempt at misdirection.

[Duff_Man]

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Baseball........Umpire Eric Gregg

Anyone remember about 10 years ago, at the 1997 NLCS

between the Braves and the Marlins?

He gave Levon Hernadez the biggest strikezone ever.

Anything between the batter and the dugout was called a

strike.

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I remember that like it was yesterday. The strike to win that series was about 2 feet off the plate. I was so pissed.

[AHF]

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Baseball........Umpire Eric Gregg

Anyone remember about 10 years ago, at the 1997 NLCS

between the Braves and the Marlins?

He gave Levon Hernadez the biggest strikezone ever.

Anything between the batter and the dugout was called a

strike.

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I remember that like it was yesterday. The strike to win that series was about 2 feet off the plate. I was so pissed.

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Still pissed about that one. Just brutal.

[frosgrim]

I think that game was one of the reasons that baseball made so many changes to the umpiring. Gregg was horrible in that game. Hence, baseball umps are watched more closely than other officials. Plus, umps can really dictate a game in baseball more than any other game. Their calls affect nearly every pitch.

[Seano]

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Anyone remember about 10 years ago, at the 1997 NLCS

between the Braves and the Marlins?

He gave Levon Hernadez the biggest strikezone ever.

Anything between the batter and the dugout was called a

strike.

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That was unforgettable. It was absolutely sickening. Even Livan was bemused and embarrassed by the incredibly generous strike zone that was given him that day. I mean it was *that* obvious.

[DJlaysitup]

ESPN says they think they know who it is...Tim D-something...I guess it won't be long until somebody backtracks the games and figures out which ones he could have affected.

[MikeWilksBooth]

So does Sheed get his $ back? lol

[sturt]

Hey, Lascar... chill, please.

1) I cast myself down on the altar for forgiveness, having no clue (a) that you actually have addidas holdings, and (b) that it would be deemed an "insult" if you did.

I'll make note: calling Lascar an addidas stock holder is equivalent to referring to W as "Scott Farkus," and exodus as "Grover Dill."

(sheesh)

2) I work for a living... maybe you've heard of that before... it's where sometimes we have enough time to flit away our time on the internet, and other times we have to actually accomplish something... I've been in the latter mode all day on what amounts to a business trip, and will continue to do so thru the biggest part of the weekend. I'm at a restaurant right now that happens to have wireless... but sure, I confess to the laziness you confessed for me... I don't care to spend the time to do the research. In fact, I confess, I don't keep this stuff in my frontal cortex such that I can immediately summon up the precise facts of who said what when and why... weakness on my part, but I'm working on it.

Anyhow, I'm sure you've picked up the slack and presented everything in an unbiased manner that will counteract any bias I brought to the table... you're so good at that.

That's all I got for now... possibly more to come depending upon how much others may have misconstrued things to The Tyrant's benefit (... knowing that YOU would NEVER do such a thing, of course).

[exodus]

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Hey, Lascar... chill, please.

1) I cast myself down on the altar for forgiveness, having no clue (a) that you actually have addidas holdings, and (b) that it would be deemed an "insult" if you did.

I'll make note: calling Lascar an addidas stock holder is equivalent to referring to W as "Scott Farkus," and exodus as "Grover Dill."

(sheesh)

2) I work for a living... maybe you've heard of that before... it's where sometimes we have enough time to flit away our time on the internet, and other times we have to actually accomplish something... I've been in the latter mode all day on what amounts to a business trip, and will continue to do so thru the biggest part of the weekend. I'm at a restaurant right now that happens to have wireless... but sure, I confess to the laziness you confessed for me... I don't care to spend the time to do the research. In fact, I confess, I don't keep this stuff in my frontal cortex such that I can immediately summon up the precise facts of who said what when and why... weakness on my part, but I'm working on it.

Anyhow, I'm sure you've picked up the slack and presented everything in an unbiased manner that will counteract any bias I brought to the table... you're so good at that.

That's all I got for now... possibly more to come depending upon how much others may have misconstrued things to The Tyrant's benefit (... knowing that YOU would NEVER do such a thing, of course).

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So is that a yes or a no?

[sturt]

I stand by my statement. AHF's question proposes to learn more exacting information... I'll have to go find that, because accuracy is certainly important.

But I'm confident it's not so much that The Tyrant went so far as to say "call this number of fouls agasint this player," but rather that he may have gone so far, as was alleged by the whole Cuban/VanGundy blow-up, that certain players may have been singled out as needing to be specifically watched for a foul...

Regardless, The Tyrant has already stepped across the line by merely what he's already admitted... it was freely reported in the last couple of seasons that he wanted the refs to start calling the game closer... I entirely agreed with the instruction but entirely question why, in the NBA only, it's okay for the CEO to be dictating how the rules are to be interpreted.

Memory serves that Stern made the false-step of explaining some of the actual process he goes through in dictating to the refs how they should be calling games... and the picture he drew by that explanation opened up a huge window of inquiry that no one stepped through... to wit, that implicit in the process, The Tyrant routinely had/has the opportunity to exert his influence, but he wasn't queried as to whether he actually did... I think you'll find that the story died when Stern reportedly made Van Gundy hush up.

Ok... that said...

ex, what's with you?

You're following me around as if you're Dennis Kucinich.

I post... you post... I post... you post... I post... you post...

Spooky.

[TroyMcClure]

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ESPN says they think they know who it is...Tim D-something...I guess it won't be long until somebody backtracks the games and figures out which ones he could have affected.

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Tim Donaghy. I could swear he was a ref at the Bucks game we got screwed in early last year. I went. It sucked the way the game seemed to have been stolen from us. It culminated with a game winning phantom call for Redd against Joe. I know Joey Crawford was one of the guys.

[Duff_Man]

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I think that game was one of the reasons that baseball made so many changes to the umpiring. Gregg was horrible in that game. Hence, baseball umps are watched more closely than other officials. Plus, umps can really dictate a game in baseball more than any other game. Their calls affect nearly every pitch.

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Yeah, notice how they ditched the centerfield and overhead camera angles for most games? The centerfield angle was so incredibly good, but it gave away too many bad calls.

[exodus]

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AHF's question proposes to learn more exacting information

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No it doesn't. He merely repeated your accusation, asking for a yes or no response for clarification.

As far as Stern goes it is well known that teams complain to him about the refs. Sometimes he responds quite publicly, like this past season when he suspended a ref for the rest of the playoffs for getting too lippy with Duncan.

They just made major rules changes a few years ago and are constantly trying to refine the calls to improve the game. I have no problem with that.

What i have a problem with is the extreme preferential treatment that star players get from the refs. I don't think that is fair at all and it is obviously something they do purposefully.

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ex, what's with you?

You're following me around as if you're Dennis Kucinich.

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Does this thread ring a bell?

click

I make a simple two line post, not to you, to point out (i know you love this) very simple facts.

Nic was giving credit to BK for not having picked a bust, even though some would disagree. I pointed out that it is much less likely to pick a bust when you have higher picks than any GM in the league. I also pointed out that the guys he has pick haven't done that much.

Both of these points are true. There is no gray area at all.

Then you come in with your response to me which, in typical sturt fashion, had absolutely no relevance to my post.

A wise man once said don't start what you can't finish. I see a very predictable pattern in your posts. You make up accusations out of thin air, pretending they are based on facts, but when you get called on it you completely avoid the subject that you brought up in the first place. And you try to hide your avoidance with long winded misdirection posts.

[Sothron]

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Baseball........Umpire Eric Gregg

Anyone remember about 10 years ago, at the 1997 NLCS

between the Braves and the Marlins?

He gave Levon Hernadez the biggest strikezone ever.

Anything between the batter and the dugout was called a

strike.

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There was an interview that fat POS gave a year after that game IIRC where he admitted he called the game completely onesided and it was because quote "I hate the Braves and wanted someone else to make it in the NL".