Comments from the Celts

[macdaddy]

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They’re just good. They’re athletic. They make shots,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said after his team had to scrap like crazy in the second half to finish off the Hawks. “I’ll tell you what, Horford, it’s a shame. I don’t know what rookie’s playing better. I think he is a terrific player on a team that has a chance to make the playoffs and be very good. I don’t know if he gets enough credit. Obviously, Joe Johnson is terrific and Mike Bibby and Josh Smith is really coming into his own. Childress is one of my more favorite players in the league just because they never call a play for him. He scores, rebounds and plays defense and he ends up in games with between 12 and 18 points without one play called for him at the small forward position. That’s really unusual to see.”

Chill gets so much criticism on here but it all seems misguided. Just because his shot is ugly doesn't mean he can't shoot. Just because he is skinny doesn't mean he can't play physical. I'd like to see Smoove taking it as hard these days as Chill. I think his weakness is he doesn't defend the perimeter that well but the effort is there.

[Swatguy]

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Chill gets so much criticism on here but it all seems misguided. Just because his shot is ugly doesn't mean he can't shoot. Just because he is skinny doesn't mean he can't play physical. I'd like to see Smoove taking it as hard these days as Chill. I think his weakness is he doesn't defend the perimeter that well but the effort is there.

Chillz is a Baller. Period.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Without Chill last night, that game gets completely away from us. He was non-existant in the 1st half, but really came on in the 2nd. His energy kept us in that game, when everybody else was struggling.

[Admin]

I don't know if you saw that stat that Exodus posted but with Childress and JJ in the game together JJ really struggles, whereas he excels with Marvin in the game with him. That will be a very interesting stat to track over the remainder of the season. It's not worth having Childress in the game if he cripples JJ's game by messing up the spacing on the court. He does tend to hang out under the basket which is awesome for putbacks and passes underneath but our offense might really need Marvin out on the wing for proper spacing to be effective. I never thought about paying attention to that until Exodus posted those numbers but I will definitely pay close attention against the Warriors.

[Swatguy]

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I don't know if you saw that stat that Exodus posted but with Childress and JJ in the game together JJ really struggles, whereas he excels with Marvin in the game with him. That will be a very interesting stat to track over the remainder of the season. It's not worth having Childress in the game if he cripples JJ's game by messing up the spacing on the court. He does tend to hang out under the basket which is awesome for putbacks and passes underneath but our offense might really need Marvin out on the wing for proper spacing to be effective. I never thought about paying attention to that until Exodus posted those numbers but I will definitely pay close attention against the Warriors.

This information is good and even better for the summer.

Solution: Sign Chillz and trade Marvin and Joe.

[Diesel]

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I don't know if you saw that stat that Exodus posted but with Childress and JJ in the game together JJ really struggles, whereas he excels with Marvin in the game with him. That will be a very interesting stat to track over the remainder of the season. It's not worth having Childress in the game if he cripples JJ's game by messing up the spacing on the court. He does tend to hang out under the basket which is awesome for putbacks and passes underneath but our offense might really need Marvin out on the wing for proper spacing to be effective. I never thought about paying attention to that until Exodus posted those numbers but I will definitely pay close attention against the Warriors.

What crippled JJ was not Chillz. It was Pierce putting the defensive glove on him.

[Admin]

Why would you trade 2 better players to accommodate a lesser player? I love Chillz but if what he is doing on the court is hurting JJ while at the same time taking minutes away from Marvin then trading Childress is the more likely and better solution.

[Diesel]

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I don't know if you saw that stat that Exodus posted but with Childress and JJ in the game together JJ really struggles, whereas he excels with Marvin in the game with him. That will be a very interesting stat to track over the remainder of the season. It's not worth having Childress in the game if he cripples JJ's game by messing up the spacing on the court. He does tend to hang out under the basket which is awesome for putbacks and passes underneath but our offense might really need Marvin out on the wing for proper spacing to be effective. I never thought about paying attention to that until Exodus posted those numbers but I will definitely pay close attention against the Warriors.

This information is good and even better for the summer.

Solution: Sign Chillz and trade Marvin and Joe.

Wait..

Maybe there's something to it.

When Marvin is on the floor, maybe he's just a good decoy. He stands in one spot out of the lane so that Joe can either drive the lane or shoot without a double team. Maybe Chillz is so busy, that he keeps his man lost on defense and so it's easier for his man to double JJ.

Maybe Marvin's localized, non-existent offense is a tactic to keep defenders anchored away from the places where JJ can score??

This must be our one play...

[ATLSmith]

The Hawks are getting lots of respect these days from other teams. I'm sure the opposition prepairs a lot more this year before a game than they did last year.

Had JJ been hitting his shots yesterday, there's a very good chance we would have won that game.

Chillz is consistant. I've loved that about him from day 1. No hate here.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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I don't know if you saw that stat that Exodus posted but with Childress and JJ in the game together JJ really struggles, whereas he excels with Marvin in the game with him. That will be a very interesting stat to track over the remainder of the season. It's not worth having Childress in the game if he cripples JJ's game by messing up the spacing on the court. He does tend to hang out under the basket which is awesome for putbacks and passes underneath but our offense might really need Marvin out on the wing for proper spacing to be effective. I never thought about paying attention to that until Exodus posted those numbers but I will definitely pay close attention against the Warriors.

Yeah I knew about that. Defensively, we tend to be a little worse as well. Bibby being on the floor should balance this out a little more.

JJ does a good job in finding Marvin when the double team comes. And when Marvin is making his jumper, it's all good for us.

But last night's poor shooting was not because Chill was on the floor. In the 3rd quarter, JJ missed 2 wide open 3's. Meanwile, Chill had 8 points in the quarter and could've had a huge quarter, if he'd made 2 of those lay-ups he got fouled on, and made all of his FTs.

To start the 4th, JJ immeadiately took 2 tough shots that he missed. Then he turns it over going to the hole. That's when Bibby was about to check back in. I thought for sure that he was coming in for JJ, so we could go with Salim and Bibby in the backcourt. But Bibby came in for Salim. That decision didn't hurt or help us at the time because we didn't lose or gain any ground.

JJ's turnover with 4 minutes to go, and us down 5, was a curious one. Instead of trying to get the ball to Horford, when Big Baby left him to go go double JJ, he tried to pass to Smoove who were under the basket and nowhere close to open. Garnett easily got the steal and the C's hit 2 FTS.

I think with Bibby on the team now, JJ just needs to make up his mind quicker about taking the jumper as soon as he touches it. Just catch it and shoot it, to take the threat of a double team away, like Ray Allen does.

Re-watching this game, you see how good of a defensive team that the Celtics are. They don't give up too mny easy shots. Celtics just have too many big time scoring weapons.

[TheDude]

I'd also like to see Joe split the double team a little more off of the screen. He keeps getting driven way out beyond the arc and has to try to turn his way eventually in and start over. He's good at splitting it so he should more often. Either that or pick and roll it off of the screen which he never does.

Also if he can get a pick n roll and the big can consistently hit the open midranger (or pass it to the man underneath if his man comes to block him), then they will free up JJ on the screens a lot easier.

[exodus]

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Maybe Chillz is so busy, that he keeps his man lost on defense and so it's easier for his man to double JJ.

Maybe Marvin's localized, non-existent offense is a tactic to keep defenders anchored away from the places where JJ can score??

LOL

It's Chillz offense that is non-existent. Take away his cherry picking and he wouldn't even score in double figures. He is only averaging 12 ppg now in 30 minutes.

His defender doesn't lose him. His defender knows he doesn't have to pay attention to him when he is over 5 feet from the basket because Childress can't score outside 5 feet.

[Plainview1981]

It's amazing that Joe gets 12 million a year, but he can't be expected to play 38-40MPG and he struggles when so and so is on the floor. He plays with no heart, and doesn't have an ounce of toughness. He has been a failure here without a doubt.

[Diesel]

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I don't know if you saw that stat that Exodus posted but with Childress and JJ in the game together JJ really struggles, whereas he excels with Marvin in the game with him. That will be a very interesting stat to track over the remainder of the season. It's not worth having Childress in the game if he cripples JJ's game by messing up the spacing on the court. He does tend to hang out under the basket which is awesome for putbacks and passes underneath but our offense might really need Marvin out on the wing for proper spacing to be effective. I never thought about paying attention to that until Exodus posted those numbers but I will definitely pay close attention against the Warriors.

Yeah I knew about that. Defensively, we tend to be a little worse as well. Bibby being on the floor should balance this out a little more.

JJ does a good job in finding Marvin when the double team comes. And when Marvin is making his jumper, it's all good for us.

But last night's poor shooting was not because Chill was on the floor. In the 3rd quarter, JJ missed 2 wide open 3's. Meanwile, Chill had 8 points in the quarter and could've had a huge quarter, if he'd made 2 of those lay-ups he got fouled on, and made all of his FTs.

To start the 4th, JJ immeadiately took 2 tough shots that he missed. Then he turns it over going to the hole. That's when Bibby was about to check back in. I thought for sure that he was coming in for JJ, so we could go with Salim and Bibby in the backcourt. But Bibby came in for Salim. That decision didn't hurt or help us at the time because we didn't lose or gain any ground.

JJ's turnover with 4 minutes to go, and us down 5, was a curious one. Instead of trying to get the ball to Horford, when Big Baby left him to go go double JJ, he tried to pass to Smoove who were under the basket and nowhere close to open. Garnett easily got the steal and the C's hit 2 FTS.

I think with Bibby on the team now, JJ just needs to make up his mind quicker about taking the jumper as soon as he touches it. Just catch it and shoot it, to take the threat of a double team away, like Ray Allen does.

Re-watching this game, you see how good of a defensive team that the Celtics are. They don't give up too mny easy shots. Celtics just have too many big time scoring weapons.

Just to piggy back on a little of what you said..

I think one other thing is that we should have a coach who will let Bibby be the PG. I understand open offenses and all, but Bibby is sick in the open court with the ball in his hand. Too many times, we treat Bibby the same way we treated Salim and Lue... as an OG. I mean he can definitely drill shots, but his main thing is to get the team rolling. I mean, we have so many weapons that it makes no sense for us to have him standing around waiting on the pass and then watch JJ pass to Smoove?? Is that some kind of prejudice?? Why does JJ always pass to Smoove. I swear .. Down the stretch, JJ doesn't pass to anybody else?

[OGRat]

Pierce has been in JJ's head ever since JJ played for Boston. Boston basically dumped JJ and I don't think he has gotten that out of his head. I don't think he has ever had a good game against Pierce.

[Watchman]

Hmmm, 12 pts in 30 mpg. Last time I looked, 1 pt per every 2.5 minutes wasn't too bad.

Here's a list of players with similar minutes and point production (I quit looking after a while because your comment really doesn't merit as much research as I already put into it, but...)

Hinrich

Gooden

Ilgauskas

Delonte West

Tinsley

Mobley

Odom

R. Davis

Haslem

J. Nelson

Diaw

M. Webster

Salmons

Pretty decent company if you ask me.

[exodus]

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Hmmm, 12 pts in 30 mpg. Last time I looked, 1 pt per every 2.5 minutes wasn't too bad.

Here's a list of players with similar minutes and point production (I quit looking after a while because your comment really doesn't merit as much research as I already put into it, but...)

Hinrich

Gooden

Ilgauskas

Delonte West

Tinsley

Mobley

Odom

R. Davis

Haslem

J. Nelson

Diaw

M. Webster

Salmons

Pretty decent company if you ask me.

How many of those players get 75% of their points from the field in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock?

http://www.82games.com/0708/07ATL8A.HTM

I'd say probably none. What would Childress be scoring without his cherry picking? If he actually made a legit effort on the defensive glass instead of leaking out he certainly wouldn't be averaging double figures.

How many of those guys have the worst +/- on their teams?

click

Guys like Hinrich and Big Z bring something to the game other than 12 ppg and they play at an important position. Childress does neither.

All Childress does is score 12 ppg. he doesn't bring anything else to the table but scoring and he isn't very good at that. He can't score outside 5 feet and that is a pretty severe limitation for a wing player. He doesn't play defense. He doesn't create for himself or others.

Mobley, Davis, Webster and Salmons are legit 3 pt threats and can spread the floor to help other players. They make it easier for other players to score. Childress doesn't.

[Watchman]

Hmmm, 12 pts in 30 mpg. Last time I looked, 1 pt per every 2.5 minutes wasn't too bad.

Here's a list of players with similar minutes and point production (I quit looking after a while because your comment really doesn't merit as much research as I already put into it, but...)

Hinrich

Gooden

Ilgauskas

Delonte West

Tinsley

Mobley

Odom

R. Davis

Haslem

J. Nelson

Diaw

M. Webster

Salmons

Pretty decent company if you ask me.

How many of those players get 75% of their points from the field in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock?

I thought we wanted a running team. This doesn't sound like a negative to me. At least he's not standing there pounding the ball running down the shot clock like Lue and JJ.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07ATL8A.HTM

I'd say probably none. What would Childress be scoring without his cherry picking? If he actually made a legit effort on the defensive glass instead of leaking out he certainly wouldn't be averaging double figures.

Uh, in case you don't remember, Nique was more of an offensive rebounder than a defensive rebounder.

Last time I checked, two points was two points.

How many of those guys have the worst +/- on their teams? You sound like Walter with your stats. When the stats don't favor your little pet theory, you then discount them and ridicule those who quote them.

click

Guys like Hinrich and Big Z bring something to the game other than 12 ppg and they play at an important position. Childress does neither. Opinions vary.

All Childress does is score 12 ppg. he doesn't bring anything else to the table but scoring and he isn't very good at that. He can't score outside 5 feet and that is a pretty severe limitation for a wing player. He doesn't play defense. He doesn't create for himself or others.

All your post referred to was 12 ppg in 30 mpg. That's what I responded to. Learn how to read what you write.

Mobley, Davis, Webster and Salmons are legit 3 pt threats and can spread the floor to help other players. They make it easier for other players to score. Childress doesn't.

Childress has a career 3 pt % of 34.8%. It's stupid to say he has no range outside of five feet. True he doesn't chunk 'em up there with no conscience like Smiff, but that doesn't mean he has no range.

[AHF]

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Childress has a career 3 pt % of 34.8%. It's stupid to say he has no range outside of five feet. True he doesn't chunk 'em up there with no conscience like Smiff, but that doesn't mean he has no range.

Take a look at Chillz' perimeter shooting. He can shoot wide, wide open 3s decently but his perimeter game is very poor for a SG/SF.

http://www.nba.com/hotzones/popup.html

[exodus]

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All your post referred to was 12 ppg in 30 mpg. That's what I responded to. Learn how to read what you write.

Looks like you need to take your own advice. Here is exactly what i said.

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It's Chillz offense that is non-existent.

Take away his cherry picking and he wouldn't even score in double figures.

He is only averaging 12 ppg now in 30 minutes.

Reading is fundamental

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You sound like Walter with your stats. When the stats don't favor your little pet theory, you then discount them and ridicule those who quote them.

Why don't you give some examples?

*crickets*

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Last time I checked, two points was two points.

Problem is you are counting two points only on one end and not the other.

Lue was a good scorer but he was such a defensive liability that he killed us even when he was scoring.

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I thought we wanted a running team. This doesn't sound like a negative to me.

We have to be a defense first team to go anywhere since we don't have a dominant scorer like Lebron or Wade.

Getting a stop and a defensive rebound is the best way to get a break started. Childress does neither and given the Hawks weakness on the defensive boards he should be helping out in that area.

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Childress has a career 3 pt % of 34.8%. It's stupid to say he has no range outside of five feet

What's stupid is that comment. Even if he made 50% from 3 he wouldn't be a legit 3 pt threat since he needs so much room to get his shot off.

He scores only 1.3 ppg on jumpers. Show me one wing player in the last 5 years that played at least 25 minutes a game and scored so little outside 5 feet.

If a guy is a 95% foul shooter it doesn't matter much if he only gets to the line once a game.