Billy Knight needs to be fired ASAP.

[KB21]

Like I said, whoever ASG hires to replace Billy will benefit from the players Billy has brought to Atlanta. Just like in Memphis though, fans like you will never give Billy the credit he is due. Billy is one of the best talent evaluators in basketball. His ability to bring in talented players is the reason this is an attractive coaching situation for some free agent coaches at this point. Just like in Memphis though, Billy will be criticized for not building a team when he put the foundation for success into place in both places. In Memphis, Jerry West initially won with that foundation and then stifled Memphis's growth with his own poor decisions. However, none of you will ever point out the mistakes that Jerry West has made while the GM in Memphis. It's not a coincidence that when Jerry started trading key players that Billy had brought in like Shane Battier, Memphis's success started to fall off.

[exodus]

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It's not a coincidence that when Jerry started trading key players that Billy had brought in like Shane Battier, Memphis's success started to fall off.

Memphis' "success"? What success was that?

I don't think any GM of a young team would trade Gay for Battier right now.

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His ability to bring in talented players is the reason this is an attractive coaching situation for some free agent coaches at this point.

Allow me to correct this for you.

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His

inability

to bring in talented players

is the reason he will lose his job

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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I have defended BK in the sense that the ownership mess is beyound the pale; however, BK has made several mistakes. Don't begruge the CP pick so much as not slecting Roy. A Roy-JJ backcourt would have been phenomenal.

But neither of those guys are PGs. Roy isn't the PG in Portland. Plus, Roy didn't even want to work out for us.

And something else everyone seems to routinely forget. The guy that was supposed to be the combo guard in that draft who was capable of playing the point, was Randy Foye, not Roy. He was also the guy who could DEFEND the position. So it's not Roy that BK should've taken if he didn't want a big, it was Foye. Foye was the other guy that some mocks had us taking, before the Shelden "promise". I don't remember one mock ever have us taking Roy.

People make the mistake in thinking that Roy would develop the same way here, as he did in Portland. The only way he does, is if he started ahead of Chill in the lineup, then proved himself enough to not be taken out of the lineup in December. I say that, because Marvin missed 1/4th of last season. If we had Roy, instead of Shelden, this is your starting lineup to begin the year last year:

Speedy

JJ

Chill ( or Roy )

Smoove

Zaza

So when Marvin returns, what then? ( also remember that Roy hurt his foot a few games into the season last year. )

It's easy to do the hindsight 20/20 thing. I wonder how many will do it with Horford though, seeing how a good majority of the board wanted Yi or Conley.

[Kimsey]

^^^^^^^^^^

Maybe Roy didn't want to work out here because our G.M. guaranteed a slot for Shelby. As soon as Stern stepped to the mic and breathed "Shh" the damn city almost erupted into a riot. He may of thought he would get drafted 3rd ahead of potential busts like Tyrus and Morrison.

Also it was reported Marvin had a bad workout here. Probably hitting 1 out of 10 threes, fumbling the ball and walking with it saying do over.

Small Forward is the least important position on a team. Players from Marvin's draft class up to this summer's draft with MW's position.

MW

MW

MWMorrison

MW

MWBrewer

MW>Thad Young

MWJulian Wright

MW

MW>Jared Dudley

MW

MWBatum

MWDanilo Gallinari

MWTyler Smith(Josh Howard clone)

[exodus]

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It's easy to do the hindsight 20/20 thing. I wonder how many will do it with Horford though, seeing how a good majority of the board wanted Yi or Conley.

Yi has lost his starting spot and isn't even in the top 20 of the rookie rankings. When i watched his CBA games last summer i could tell he would be a bad pick.

Conley has missed almost half the season with injuries. His PER is almost the same as Horford.

I think the more important issue is how Acie does. I wanted Conley/Stuckey but Horford/Law was my second choice so i wasn't upset on draft day, more like relieved that BK didn't completely blow it. But Acie needs to play like i believe he can. Otherwise our pg struggles could continue.

[troubleman]

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Like I said, whoever ASG hires to replace Billy will benefit from the players Billy has brought to Atlanta. Just like in Memphis though, fans like you will never give Billy the credit he is due. Billy is one of the best talent evaluators in basketball. His ability to bring in talented players is the reason this is an attractive coaching situation for some free agent coaches at this point. Just like in Memphis though, Billy will be criticized for not building a team when he put the foundation for success into place in both places. In Memphis, Jerry West initially won with that foundation and then stifled Memphis's growth with his own poor decisions. However, none of you will ever point out the mistakes that Jerry West has made while the GM in Memphis. It's not a coincidence that when Jerry started trading key players that Billy had brought in like Shane Battier, Memphis's success started to fall off.

I thought we were building a championship contender here? Wasn't that the reason for trading Shareef, JT, and Theo? No honest person can look at the Atlanta Hawks core players, and say there is a championship on the horizon.

[Atlantaholic]

Knight needs to go.

His only two GM stints have both been historic failures.

I know, I know... there is a very good reason why Knight has been an absolute failure his entire GMin career... I'm sure all of his mistakes have very good reasons behind them. Unfortunately for Knight, and 99% of GM's in the league (Isiah Thomas being the only exception), you are judged by your teams performance as a GM, and when your team is going to win less games in your fifth year of rebuilding than the team you inherited... that is what is known as INEXCUSABLE, INEXPLICABLE, HISTORIC, EPIC FAIL

[Diesel]

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This guy is the architect of a house with a rotten foundation, and for this team to heal he needs to be sent walking ASAP.

As far as I can tell these are the reasons he needs to go:

1. Poor drafting.

2. Inability to put together a balanced roster.

3. Has hired two of the worst coaches in NBA history. How is that possible?

4. Obviously does not have the full trust of ownership. Now this one is debateable because the owners give every appearance of being low grade morons, so I am not sure falling out of their good graces is a black mark.

I usually believe that every GM should get 2 coaches and no GM should get the Teflon Don treatment that Babcock got here...

However, it doesn't seem like the Spirit Group will give BK another coach. They seemingly have undermined his GMship. It's very hard to tell where to draw the line...

First... he came here with the directive to cut cost and trade down.

He did that.

Then he was told to draft a roster....

with the exception of missing the boat with CP3/Deron, he did fair.

Then he was told to trade for a superstar.

I'm not mad with either the JJ trade nor the Bibby trade.. both were marvelous trades for us.

Where he has failed is getting a big man.

Although, I'm glad he didn't take Damp or Curry. However, why not shoot for Gasol?

So now the question is can a BK roster win?

All fans would agree that with the talent we have, we should be doing a lot better.

That's coaching.

[Atlantaholic]

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Yi has lost his starting spot and isn't even in the top 20 of the rookie rankings. When i watched his CBA games last summer i could tell he would be a bad pick.

Conley has missed almost half the season with injuries. His PER is almost the same as Horford.

I think the more important issue is how Acie does. I wanted Conley/Stuckey but Horford/Law was my second choice so i wasn't upset on draft day, more like relieved that BK didn't completely blow it. But Acie needs to play like i believe he can. Otherwise our pg struggles could continue.

This is quite true... If Acie doesn't live up to his potential than we would have basically added a good/great player in Horford, but again missed on the opportunity to fill our PG AND Center needs... Horford is great, but he didn't fill a need... thus his inability to really impact our W/L record.

Conley would have locked down our PG position for the next decade (he is having a great year for a rookie PG)... As of right now it is still looking unsettled (Bibby has helped, but is he the long term answer?), just like our Center position is still unsettled.

To summarize: If Acie doesn't become a good PG and Conley becomes a Franchise PG, then I definitely would chalk that up as another great Failure by BK...

[Atlantaholic]

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That's coaching.

Who hired Woodson????

Oh yeah... great point though.

[AtLaS]

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Like I said, whoever ASG hires to replace Billy will benefit from the players Billy has brought to Atlanta. Just like in Memphis though, fans like you will never give Billy the credit he is due. Billy is one of the best talent evaluators in basketball. His ability to bring in talented players is the reason this is an attractive coaching situation for some free agent coaches at this point. Just like in Memphis though, Billy will be criticized for not building a team when he put the foundation for success into place in both places. In Memphis, Jerry West initially won with that foundation and then stifled Memphis's growth with his own poor decisions. However, none of you will ever point out the mistakes that Jerry West has made while the GM in Memphis. It's not a coincidence that when Jerry started trading key players that Billy had brought in like Shane Battier, Memphis's success started to fall off.

Who cares what BK did in Memphis? He's sucked here and for you to rely on his Memphis "success" (if that's what you consider it) is just dumb.

[AtLaS]

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Question. When Atlanta gets a new GM, do you think that GM is going to come in and blow everything up by getting rid of everyone Billy Knight brought in?

If you answer truthfully, you will see the answer is no.

That's one of the worst arguments I've ever heard. Just because BK drafted a "keepable" player in the top 5 doesn't mean he has succeeded. A keepable player in the top 5 when there were MUCH better players directly after them (at needed positions) is draft failure. Your point is essentially applauding the Bulls GM for taking Tyrus over Aldridge (by trading) just because Tyrus is a good piece for a rebuilding team. It's like applauding Portland for taking Bowie over Jordan because Bowie turned out to be a decent player that a new GM would've still kept because he's a decent player. It's just dumb. At some point with all those top 5 picks, you have to get one right.

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If Billy is so terrible and so inept as a GM, then how in the hell has he put together a talented young team that one of the best coaches in NBA history wants to come in and coach?

Uh, because he had top 5 picks YEAR after YEAR because of his horrible top 5 picks in previous years, and he continues to make the wrong decision with the exception of this year when he fell ass backwards and lucked himself into keeping the 3rd pick. Anyone can acquire "talent" with top 5 picks in 4 consecutive years, BK has done the same thing that the Clippers did in all those years with top picks.

[Packfill]

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Like I said, whoever ASG hires to replace Billy will benefit from the players Billy has brought to Atlanta. Just like in Memphis though, fans like you will never give Billy the credit he is due. Billy is one of the best talent evaluators in basketball. His ability to bring in talented players is the reason this is an attractive coaching situation for some free agent coaches at this point. Just like in Memphis though, Billy will be criticized for not building a team when he put the foundation for success into place in both places. In Memphis, Jerry West initially won with that foundation and then stifled Memphis's growth with his own poor decisions. However, none of you will ever point out the mistakes that Jerry West has made while the GM in Memphis. It's not a coincidence that when Jerry started trading key players that Billy had brought in like Shane Battier, Memphis's success started to fall off.

I thought we were building a championship contender here? Wasn't that the reason for trading Shareef, JT, and Theo? No honest person can look at the Atlanta Hawks core players, and say there is a championship on the horizon.

Bingo.

[Diesel]

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That's coaching.

Who hired Woodson????

Oh yeah... great point though.

I'm on the boat with you... if he were allowed to get one other coach in here. The same GM that hired Hubie Brown, hired Kevin Loughery and then hired Mike Fratello.

I think BK is due one more coach.

[KB21]

Another stupid comment.

Somehow, getting an interior force like Al Horford wasn't a need. Plus, despite the fact that he's the NBA's best rookie this season and has a great future, his drafting was a mistake because we didn't get the can't shoot a lick Mike Conley, who BTW isn't even in the top 10 among rookies.

[KB21]

Yep. Continue to try and diminish what Billy has done here.

He's done such a horrible job that the next GM will inherit and keep the talent he has put into place.

[KB21]

I absolutely do see the core of a championship team in place right now. This team has great athletes and skillful, team oriented players that make up the core of this team. When they get a coach that can improve their play on the defensive end, the team as a whole will rise up to the challenge and make a push for a championship.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

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That is my point. That is what you guys are doing with the whole CP3/M-Williams and Roy/S-Willams. You guys say CP3 (a lie because it was Deron at the time. lol).... But you claim to have wanted CP3 over Marvin because we need a PG. Well, how can you next year want Roy when we need a Big or PG???

I assume you are generalizing, but, for the record, I wanted Deron and still would be happy with that pick over Marvin. My point is that I evaluated Deron to be better for the team based on need and the talent available. I still believe Deron will be better than CP3 for the long run because of size and durability.

Also, for the record, there were a lot of ppl on here that wanted CP3. Not many of us thought it was good for the team to have another SF, especially when he was not clearly better than the PGs available. In fact, discussion eventually evolved to "which PG". Did you dig out the "which PG" poll that was conducted back then?

I only fault BK for his judgement that MW and SW were best for the team when we clearly did not need a SF and the PGs available were evaluated just as talented as the SF he drafted. Hell, MW almost laid an egg for his tryout with the Hawks. So what was his talent evaluation based on?

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Just my point as fans we always claim we wanted the NOW start player we missed out on. NO BODY WANTED CP3 ON THIS BOARD. I bet if I go back to the 2006 draft I will find maybe 1% who may have wanted Roy at the time. Stop blame the GM for making mistakes when you too did the same thing. Atleast he admit his mistake by trying to do something about it.

Yes, but he is the one with the title and the access to the players to get the pick right. And again, for the record, I wanted Foye b/c of Roy's health issues. Shelden was never in my consideration. I would have gone after a C via trade. When BK drafted Shelden I wondered about the justification. In general, I don't think the majority of us would have made the same pick. And with the Shelden pick, he didn't even do the homework of evaluating other potential players. As a fan, I don't know what went on behind the scenes, but I don't think he earned his money with that draft.

OG

THAT IS A BIG FAT LIE... I GUESS WE CAN'T NOT TAKE YOUR WORD ANYMORE. LOL

Like I said in my other post. I went back to look at all the threads before and after the draft. I posted links to a lot of them. NO ONE said I WANT CP3! I even found one person who said "STAY AWAY FROM CP3"

Prove me wrong. Go back like i did and find me where ppl on this board said, "Get CP3"

Here is what I found on this board.

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....dyprev=1#291343

[exodus]

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Yep. Continue to try and diminish what Billy has done here.

He's done such a horrible job that the next GM will inherit and keep the talent he has put into place.

Nobody has to try to diminish anything. All we have to do is

point to the standings that show the Hawks 11 games under .500

in a weak conference.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

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Like I said, whoever ASG hires to replace Billy will benefit from the players Billy has brought to Atlanta. Just like in Memphis though, fans like you will never give Billy the credit he is due. Billy is one of the best talent evaluators in basketball. His ability to bring in talented players is the reason this is an attractive coaching situation for some free agent coaches at this point. Just like in Memphis though, Billy will be criticized for not building a team when he put the foundation for success into place in both places. In Memphis, Jerry West initially won with that foundation and then stifled Memphis's growth with his own poor decisions. However, none of you will ever point out the mistakes that Jerry West has made while the GM in Memphis. It's not a coincidence that when Jerry started trading key players that Billy had brought in like Shane Battier, Memphis's success started to fall off.

GREAT POINT!

I use to dislike BK just like all these other guys that is because I did not take the time and do the homework for myself. A lot of fans are the same way. They sit and listen to the Radio or read crazy newspaper articles. Well, now it is all coming to light and most of us still can't see it.

I guess I will post his quote again...

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Everyone makes mistakes in whatever job/life.

It's what you are willing to do to make up for those mistake is what makes you a better person.

BK has shown us he will do what it takes to makeup for his mistakes

* Fire Woody

* Trading for Jose Calderon/ trade for Bibby

* Getting rid of S-Williams/bring in Big AL

Now what have YOUR BELOVED OWNERS HAVE DONE?

* Double the Ticket prices for next year. The Falcons' owner has done the opposite.

* Keep Woody on Board

* Block a trade that would have brought us a DAMN GOOD PG (Calderon)

but hey, you guys are right BK is the biggest problem we have. lol