Smoove's growth

[coachx]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/josh_smith/career_stats.html

Don't get me wrong guys...I'm not a Smoove hater.....just a realist.

Above are Smoove's career stats. Very little, if any, improvement "stat wise" this season with the exception of slightly better FG% and slightly worse rebounding. Smith has improved his post offense to contribute to the improved FG % but still makes alot of bad decisions. I think the rebounding decrease is due to Horford eating up more of those boards then ZaZa did. NO DECREASE IN TURNOVERS IS ALARMING.

I think Smith has gotten almost as good as he is going to get until he gets a coach who disciplines him to make smarter decision (shot selection and decisions with the ball) and focus on position defense in the post and boxing out for rebounds.....Josh can out jump people for rebounds without boxing out but what Smith seems NOT to realize is that when your boxing out it often times allows your guards to get to a loose ball for a rebound.

To me, seeing Smith get torched at SF vs. Carter and Jefferson ends any speculation of starting Smith at SF as an expierement. Smith simply is not a SF and still needs to be taught how to play proper position defense consistently as a PF.

I don't think Smith will figure this out all by himself. A coach with major credentials and discipline is what it will take to really gets Smith's attention to change his ways. That is what it will take for the Hawks to take the next step. Until then Smith's heltor / skeltor style will hurt the Hawks almost as much as it helps them.

If some one does not get Smith's attention soon his poor position defense, lack of boxing out, and poor shot selection will hold this team back from where it can go. Smith will never stop shooting poor shots and begin to play defense the right way until someone he respects gets in his ear.

I hope Woody and his staff are telling him the right things but Smith seems to selectively tune them out if they are.

With the right coach Smith seems to still possess a ton of potential. However, with the current staff his growth as a player is now almost stagnant.

What do you guys think ? To me everything about Smith's game that needs fixing is right between his ears (Unlike many players who lack certain physical traits ).

[beenthere]

I don't know how much of his lack of development is because of coaching or his own immaturity, stubbornness, and/or just lack of star talent. It will be a difficult situation for ownership this off-season with him. We know that he is going to ask for a max or near-max contract based upon the fact of what he turned down at the beginning of this season. I would be scared to pay someone for "potential". Another thing is that Horford's natural position is power forward. He seems to have more upside potential than Josh. If you don't think Josh can play the small forward spot, it might be best to do a sign and trade with him this off season. We've got a lot of holes to fill.

[JackB1]

totally agree. Smoove has to be one of the most perplexing players to watch, because he

can do some unbelievably athletic things at times that very few in the NBA can, and then he leaves you scratching his head when he starts jacking up rainbow jumpers that bang off the side of the backboard. Smoove's biggest problem is his brain or lack of it sometimes. He went through a stretch where he seemed to "get it" and stopped jacking 3's...dribbling too much and starting posting up more and driving and running more. Lately he's seemed to revert back to "Evil Smoove" where he insists on dribbling the ball the length of the court and taking long jumpers with 15 seconds left on the clock.

It's painfully obvious that Woody has no control over this kid. I don't know if he's worth max money next year in his current "condition". He still is very green and raw IMO, but whether or not he's hit the "wall" yet is hard to tell.

[TheTruth]

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I think Smith has gotten almost as good as he is going to get until he gets a coach who disciplines him

With the right coach Smith seems to still possess a ton of potential. However, with the current staff his growth as a player is now almost stagnant.

That is basically the gist of your post, and easily the most important parts. Smoove does not shoot the 3 ball well, yet he continues to take nearly 1.5 a game. Unless the coaches are encouraging him to continue to take those shots to improve his game development-wise (which I doubt since they have made a concerted effort to get him to develop a post game), then his continuing to take them is as much a fault of Woodson's as it is Smith's.

Smoove HAS improved quite a bit over the years. This year he has taken great strides in his post game. It still needs a lot of work, but it adds another element to his game that players have to respect. Yes, his numbers havent changed that much over last year, but the development of his post game is really significant.

Here is my final thought. Right now, we dont have a competent coach. We dont have a coach that utilizes his players in the best ways. He does NOT find ways to get the best out of his players. Until we get a coach who knows what the hell he is doing, NO ONE on our team, especially any young guys we currently have or bring in, we will continue to see a relative lack of development across the board. A good coach will cut down on the bonehead decisions that Smoove consistently makes because he will make Smoove pay for it AND teach him in the right ways.

[dalamchops]

this is just not a good thread. Do you even watch the games?? Smith had absolutely ZERO inside game whatsoever last year. This year there are times when no one on the opponents team that can stop him, and that is his true peak.

[Kimsey]

J. Smith hasn't had an NBA caliber pg to set him up (see Paul and West/Chandler) or a post presence to compliment him. When he's on the perimeter he has to worry about not allowing his player to the paint because no one besides him can stop a lay up. Maybe a stronger post defender would allow him to crowd the player more. Now if he is going to block and disrupt shots and rebound, I don't expect him to guard the perimeter while fighting through screens well. You are asking him to do too much defensively as well as offensively posting up guys taller and bigger.

In all you are expecting a 22 year old guy to block shots, rebound, defend the post/paint, defend the perimeter, post up, and consistently make 20 foot shoots. He's obviously stronger in certain areas than others.

BTW, Chilldress is not helping his game when they play together. Chilldress threat beyond 7 feet is laughable and they can basically play 5 on 4 defense and that forces J. Smith to shoot those hail mary jumpshots and shut out the paint at the same time.

In the first quarter J. Smith had like 9 and 5 but that's with Marvin making his shots.

[TheTruth]

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this is just not a good thread. Do you even watch the games?? Smith had absolutely ZERO inside game whatsoever last year. This year there are times when no one on the opponents team that can stop him, and that is his true peak.

I dont think you were referring to me on this one, moreso the original poster.

At any rate, I applaud J Smoove for developing more of a post game. He defends the pain pretty well, and opponents score less when he's in the game. If he is going to continue to grow as a PF, then that part of his game will have to continue to improve. After all, that post game is something that wasn't really in his arsenal until this year.

[pound4pound]

"Hey Josh - there is a reason why you are so wide open to take that shot!"

Josh Smith just kills me sometimes taking those shots and leading a one on three break. You have to think that another coach could reign Josh in somehow to play more to his strengths that benefit the team.

I look at Houston and see what a new system can bring to the same players. Like most young NBA stars - his shot will improve. Winning will become more important than personal statistics. He will learn to keep himself in games by controlling his fouls. I would hate to give up on Josh and see him flurish on another team, just because we stuck him with Mike Woodson for four years.

[dalamchops]

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this is just not a good thread. Do you even watch the games?? Smith had absolutely ZERO inside game whatsoever last year. This year there are times when no one on the opponents team that can stop him, and that is his true peak.

I dont think you were referring to me on this one, moreso the original poster.

well, the entire thread is pointless, but most blame definitely on the OP. Thank god he's not the GM, cuz he'll just let JS walk while any team w/ enough cap would offer him plenty of money, because the talent is obviously there.

[exodus]

I think Smith is moving in the right direction with his low post game. This is the first year he has tried to post guys up and he is still learning.

The improvement in his field goal percentage shouldn't be dismissed, especially considering how many jumpers he takes and how poorly he shoots them. Just taking away his 3s elevates his shooting percentage to 47.3%.

He really needs a coach who can keep him on a short leash. He shouldn't be allowed to take 3s and long 2s. At this point it has been established that he isn't a shooter. he needs to prove he can make 15-18 footers before he tries to shoot longer ones.

And he needs to understand that he isn't Jason Kidd. he throws way too many risky passes and forces the action off the dribble too often. He needs to keep things more basic.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

ROLMAO! The funniest thing about this thread is I just compared Smoove's stats to all other starting PFs and you find VERY FEW that may COME CLOSE to FEELING OUT the STAT CHART the way he does. WE HAVE BECOME VERY SPOILED by his stats. We have NO CLUE OF WHAT A SPECIAL PLAYER WE HAVE.

This guy have become at the level he is WITHOUT A COACH!

He spends every off season with an NBA GREAT TRYING TO BETTER HIS GAME but like all Atlanta fans we have no appreciation.

BUT GO AHEAD LET ANOTHER GOOD PLAYER LEAVE YOUR CITY!

[High5]

It would be nice to get more shooters on the floor so Smith would have no reason to stand out there. Against smaller lineups I'd like to see more Bibby/Salim or J-Rich/Joe/Marvin/Smith.

[hawkman]

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ROLMAO! The funniest thing about this thread is I just compared Smoove's stats to all other starting PFs and you find VERY FEW that may COME CLOSE to FEELING OUT the STAT CHART the way he does. WE HAVE BECOME VERY SPOILED by his stats. We have NO CLUE OF WHAT A SPECIAL PLAYER WE HAVE.

This guy have become at the level he is WITHOUT A COACH!

He spends every off season with an NBA GREAT TRYING TO BETTER HIS GAME but like all Atlanta fans we have no appreciation.

BUT GO AHEAD LET ANOTHER GOOD PLAYER LEAVE YOUR CITY!

Amen to that. The worst fanbase in pro sports strikes again! The kid was a project when he got here and has made massive strides in his game. He actually WANTS to get better. He works on his game during the off season and always comes back with something new. His shooting WILL get better. His ballhandling WILL get better. His post game WILL get better. He's one of the few young players to pan out for this team.

[mattlanta]

What I realized with Smith is, if he played with a little more heart, played a little smarter, and stopped turning the ball too many times, he'd be an automatic all-star. I never see him playing with all his heart, and his decision-making on the court is the reason why he gives the ball up so many times. It's not like it's stolen away from him, if you watch the turnovers, they're all just stupid mistakes where he either telegraphed the pass or where he just idiotically throws the ball towards his teammate... I really wanted to re-sign Josh Smith, but if we can somehow sign and trade him, I don't know... I might just say yes to that for perhaps a first round draft pick + a player. I'd rather have someone who hussles his ass off instead of someone who plays with inconsistent effort, questionable decision-making, and a three point shot that never goes in, yet he always has confidence in it.

Players like Al Horford have heart. He's playing out of position, yet he always ends up with double doubles against the toughest centers out there. If we were to get rid of Josh Smith, I truly believe it would free up Horford to play in the power forward position and give us the opportunity to bring in a big man because if you think about it, we always seem to get beat down low in close games.

[PureGreatness]

to me, smooce should be on the floor with at least 2 shooters at all times.

[Atlantaholic]

I was expecting Smoove's numbers to be better than what they are but I wouldn't say that I am completely disappointed by his development.

Other posters have already explained why.

[coachx]

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this is just not a good thread. Do you even watch the games?? Smith had absolutely ZERO inside game whatsoever last year. This year there are times when no one on the opponents team that can stop him, and that is his true peak.

I dont think you were referring to me on this one, moreso the original poster.

well, the entire thread is pointless, but most blame definitely on the OP. Thank god he's not the GM, cuz he'll just let JS walk while any team w/ enough cap would offer him plenty of money, because the talent is obviously there.

I knew the homers would come out and see this as an attack.

Why is it a pointless thread ? Can you honestly say Smith is playing up to his potential ? Do you ever see him box out ? How many times have you seen Smith fight a player for position before they have the ball when playing post defense ? You like his shot selection ? In Smith's 4th year do you not think he should have stopped some of these bad habits that are normally gone after your rookie or 2nd year ?

Guys come on now, I mentioned Smith improved post game if you read my post that began this thread, its in the 2nd paragraph. Yet several posters act like I am blind to that.

I never said Smith should walk in free agency either....... My only point was that his improvement as a player is beginning to stagnate under the current coaching staff. Sure Smith is to blame for his own play and poor decision(that goes without saying does it not ?). His bad decisions and poor shot selection is what is holding him back. I guess "The Truth" could not pick up that bad shot selection is part of shooting all those 3's while shooting only 25% from long range.

The point is not to get rid of Smith. It is to make Smith live up to his potentential so the Haws can live up to their potential. The 2nd best player on playoff team simply cannot make the same poor decisions on a nighty basis. I have seen no improvment in Smith decisions making and little improvement in his shot selection. I have seen no improvement on his position defense in the post and he rarlyboxes out. Those are things another coach coaching staff hopefully can change about Smith b/c he obviously tuned the current staff out.

I'm not picking on Smith. Smith has the ability to be a top 20 player in the NBA if he would wise up and make better decision. The wins will not start piling up until that happens.

[tomac]

I think we all have to realize that this guy will get better. He's not the best jumpshooter now, but it's obvious that he's working on it. Just like Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Amare Stoudamire, and Dwight Howard, his medium range game will improve with more work. The same goes for his post game. Personally, I believe that there are very few players in the league with his skill set (especially at his age), and with proper coaching Smooth will be a regular all-star.

Now with that being said, I must address some of the comments made regarding the game against the Nets. Smooth did not play RJ at all (Marvin did), and he didn't play Vince until late in the 4th. RJ ate Marvin alive on quick backdoor cuts all night. Smooth came over in help defense, and no one would ever pick up his guy. This is one of the reasons that New Jersey got so many offensive boards. Marvin looked lost on D. Lawrence Frank ran multiple high screen sets that pulled Smooth away form the basket; which opened up the lane for most of the night.

As for Vince, why did Woody not double him? Joe could not do it by himself. Lawrence Frank figured out pretty quickly that he could not afford to let VC guard Joe and play solid offense. Why didn't Woody see the same scenario for Joe? Where was Mario West?

Josh guarded VC on three possessions at the end of the game. Two were great defensive possesions that stopped VC from scoring. VC put him in the blender on the third possession. It's all on tape.

It amazes me that some people can watch the same game that I watched and see such different things. No offense, but it really makes me wonder how many posters actually have a knowledge of the game (or have even played it). Smooth has a lot of growing to do, but if he played for a winning franchise, we'd be salivating for him. Smooth is not the issue; Marvin is.

[coachx]

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I think we all have to realize that this guy will get better. He's not the best jumpshooter now, but it's obvious that he's working on it. Just like Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Amare Stoudamire, and Dwight Howard, his medium range game will improve with more work. The same goes for his post game. Personally, I believe that there are very few players in the league with his skill set (especially at his age), and with proper coaching Smooth will be a regular all-star.

Now with that being said, I must address some of the comments made regarding the game against the Nets. Smooth did not play RJ at all (Marvin did), and he didn't play Vince until late in the 4th. RJ ate Marvin alive on quick backdoor cuts all night. Smooth came over in help defense, and no one would ever pick up his guy. This is one of the reasons that New Jersey got so many offensive boards. Marvin looked lost on D. Lawrence Frank ran multiple high screen sets that pulled Smooth away form the basket; which opened up the lane for most of the night.

As for Vince, why did Woody not double him? Joe could not do it by himself. Lawrence Frank figured out pretty quickly that he could not afford to let VC guard Joe and play solid offense. Why didn't Woody see the same scenario for Joe? Where was Mario West?

Josh guarded VC on three possessions at the end of the game. Two were great defensive possesions that stopped VC from scoring. VC put him in the blender on the third possession. It's all on tape.

It amazes me that some people can watch the same game that I watched and see such different things. No offense, but it really makes me wonder how many posters actually have a knowledge of the game (or have even played it). Smooth has a lot of growing to do, but if he played for a winning franchise, we'd be salivating for him. Smooth is not the issue; Marvin is.

Dude, did you miss the 3rd quarter ?

You say Smith did not play Jefferson at all and did not play Carter until the last few possesions and then blame other people for not watching the game. Sounds like you may have missed the 3rd quarter.

JJ and Marvin sat most of the 3rd quarter in foul trouble. We ran a lineup of:

Bibby / Law

Chills

Smith

Horord

ZaZa

Smith and Chillz were switching off on Carter and Jefferson and they got torched. We were out scored by about 15 points in the 3rd quarter.

Jefferson was running Smith off screens and got some wide open looks on Smith.

[Traceman]

Marv was replaced by Zaza at about the 6 minute mark of the 3rd quarter. Our lineup was:

Zaza

Horford

Smoove

Chillz

Bibby

NJ's lineup was:

Boone

Harris

RJ

VC

Harris

Who was guarding RJ if it wasn't Smoove? It could have been Chillz but then that would mean that Smoove was on Carter. Both guys were hurting us in the 3rd so REGARDLESS of who Smoove was guarding, he wasn't doing a very good job. In addition, RJ played 40 minutes to Marv's 28 so SOMEBODY other than Marv was definitely guarding him.

No offense, but I don't know what YOU were watching. I saw Smoove get beat off the dribble on NUMEROUS occasions during that game. He tried his patented let the guy get by and try to block the shot from behind technique on several occasions and got burned. Smoove's D in that game was every bit as bad as Marv's and Chillz'. NONE of our wing players defended well at all. JJ wasn't very successful either but I thought he at least gave a strong effort.