Premium Member Diesel Posted April 2, 2008 Premium Member Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Quote: On another note this is an example of a good columnist. He writes something that is interesting and provides information we don't already know. (That the Spirit isn't committing to BK or Woody and by his statements seems to be delibrately vague so they don't look bad firing them even if they have some success in the playoffs.) This is how it read to me too. I think Gearon Jr. already has some replacements in mind.. and he wants to downplay a playoff birth or going deep into the playoffs so that he can make the changes without being called on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted April 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 The east is also at it's weakest point possibly ever. On top of that, the Hawks have failed to win games against quality teams. The Hawks right now are the best of a bunch of crappy teams in the east. You think they would be sniffing the playoffs in the west? Not a chance. Don't fool yourself into thinking the Hawks are way better than they were. They were lucky the schedule got so easy coming down the stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 You do know that we have had difficult stretches this year while other teams were having more easy stretches than us. It all balances out in the end for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted April 2, 2008 Premium Member Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Quote: How about how he has developed our young draft picks into good/very good players, we have gotten better every season, we are 4th best in the EC at home, and are about to make the playoffs for the first time in a decade. Considering he was given an awful team 4 years and hasn't had a veteran other than Joe he could depend on until the Bibby trade I would say that's pretty impressive. I just want to jump in here and add to what someone else has pointed out with player development. 1) Josh Smith is still inconsistent with everything. On offense, he is undisciplined and on defense he doesn't always work hard to keep his man in front of him or box out like he suppose too! 2) Marvin should be more developed than he is. On offense, he should me use more than just a spot up shooter! He has displayed a little jump hook recently, why not before? Can Marvin slash to the basket without the ball and receive a pass like Childress? You would think so. What about more alley oops? On defense, could Marvin block more shots? Why doesn't he then? Could Marvin be a better rebounder? Some games like New York you say hell yes! Why isn't he then? 3) Lets not talk about Shelden Williams 4) Zaza should not have been the disaster that he was 2/3 of the season with proper coaching. Especially when he showed flashes in prior seasons. 5) Solomon should be at least a serviceable back up center with his physical skills 6) I don't even know where to start with Salim. He is a worse at everything 3 year later in Woody's system 7) Richardson displayed a lot of offensive skill especially shooting in the DL but nothing since entering the Woody zone. 8) Acie has regressed compared to the 1st half of the season 9) Mario west should be more serviceable at this point with his athleticism and defense. At least should be a 5 minute per game type player by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Quote: Yeah you are probably right, Salim, Solo, West, etc., are all probably All-Stars in the making ... if only Woody weren't holding them back. It's pretty sad that you of all people decided to take such a one-sided view on this--although I never intimated they would be all-stars or anything close to it. My point was that he has not developed them to the points where they should be at by doing thing such as inconsistent PT, horrible sub patterns, etc. *Sigh* It's always so pointless with you. At any rate, we will see what balls the ASG have during the offseason. My only hope is that at least on of the BK/Woody dyad is shipped out of town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackB1 Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Quote: I just want to jump in here and add to what someone else has pointed out with player development. 1) Josh Smith is still inconsistent with everything. On offense, he is undisciplined and on defense he doesn't always work hard to keep his man in front of him or box out like he suppose too! 2) Marvin should be more developed than he is. On offense, he should me use more than just a spot up shooter! He has displayed a little jump hook recently, why not before? Can Marvin slash to the basket without the ball and receive a pass like Childress? You would think so. What about more alley oops? On defense, could Marvin block more shots? Why doesn't he then? Could Marvin be a better rebounder? Some games like New York you say hell yes! Why isn't he then? 3) Lets not talk about Shelden Williams 4) Zaza should not have been the disaster that he was 2/3 of the season with proper coaching. Especially when he showed flashes in prior seasons. 5) Solomon should be at least a serviceable back up center with his physical skills 6) I don't even know where to start with Salim. He is a worse at everything 3 year later in Woody's system 7) Richardson displayed a lot of offensive skill especially shooting in the DL but nothing since entering the Woody zone. 8) Acie has regressed compared to the 1st half of the season 9) Mario west should be more serviceable at this point with his athleticism and defense. At least should be a 5 minute per game type player by now. You are right. One of Woody's biggest flaws, is his inability to bring these young, non-starters, along. Whenever Acie has a few nice games, he proceeds to sit for the next few. Mario goes in for the last 3 seconds of each quarter (always makes me laugh in amazement). Zaza still sets moving picks. Richardson should be spelling JJ every game. Salim.....I don't even know know where to start with him. I REALLY think this team can be A LOT Better with a coach that can do these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traceman Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 have improved. Smoove had NO game when he got to the NBA. He was as a raw as they come. He was always a tremendous athlete but he didn't have a clue about how to play. Now, even though he still does things that make you want to choke him, he does a lot more right than wrong and he is a borderline All Star player. That is coaching. Without that coaching, he would likely be in the same situation that Gerald Green is in now. Marvin was CLEARLY not ready for prime time when he was drafted. He had a lot of raw skills but he was OBVIOUSLY drafted for his potential. Now, he is a good player (with a chance to be better than good) who clearly understands the game. He is still developing his game but his improvement since his rookie year is obvious. Chillz has found his niche under Woody and his crafty little game around the baseline has become his signature. Zaza went from having NO offensive game before he came to the ATL to actually displaying a few offensive skills. He was just a big body known for being active on the boards before he got here. Many were surprised when he displayed a few offensive skills. Solo needs to get in the weight room. His problem is his inability to hold his position on D. Because he can't do that, he fouls too much. Acie is a rookie who couldn't stay healthy and that held back his development more than anything Woody ever did. VERY few young guys respond well to injuries and Acie has not either. Marvin was looking good last year until he broke his hand but he regressed after coming back from injury. Acie did the same thing. It is not just our guys, MANY young guys have struggled in this league after suffering injuries. It may well be next year before Acie gets it going. Mario was not even considered to be an NBA caliber player before we signed him. He was not drafted for a reason. Woody helped him find a niche that allowed him to make the roster. s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted April 2, 2008 Premium Member Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Quote: have improved. Smoove had NO game when he got to the NBA. He was as a raw as they come. He was always a tremendous athlete but he didn't have a clue about how to play. Now, even though he still does things that make you want to choke him, he does a lot more right than wrong and he is a borderline All Star player. That is coaching. Without that coaching, he would likely be in the same situation that Gerald Green is in now. Marvin was CLEARLY not ready for prime time when he was drafted. He had a lot of raw skills but he was OBVIOUSLY drafted for his potential. Now, he is a good player (with a chance to be better than good) who clearly understands the game. He is still developing his game but his improvement since his rookie year is obvious. I never said that either hasn't improved rather they haven't improved enough. You know that Smith should not be taking all of the out side shots that he takes nor should he be leading fast breaks. Heard of the term outlet pass Josh? Passes that travel faster than your dribble! Marvin, work on finishing around the basket! You don't always have to show the ball during your move...it might get blocked if the wrong people are around. Move around the basket occasionally Marvin like Childress, you might pick up some easy baskets when a real point guard is in the game! These are examples of coaching tips that could help a player develop more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Speaking of player development.... Diaw Shelden Salim Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted April 2, 2008 Moderators Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Quote: That's pretty awful. Thanks for filling me in. The leak was so bad that not only was Shelden leaked but our second round pick of Solomon Jones was leaked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascar78 Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Quote: How about how he has developed our young draft picks into good/very good players Is that really true though? Joe was a stud from day one regardless of Woody. Smith has blossomed and become an incredible player. Marvin has improved slowly but steadily, but is far from having developed into what we hoped for Zaza has done nothing but regress Childress has shown very little improvement from day 1, he's pretty much the exact same player Solo has not developed. Salim / Shelden are guys who were extremely confident in college and then seemed to have their confidence crushed by weird minutes and not getting rewarded when they do well but being punished when they screw up. Acie seemed to be on the same path until the Bibby trade forced Woody to give him more minutes Al looks like a beast, but I think the impact of the coach will be more how he develops between now and a couple of years from now. Overall, I'm not so sure that Woody has been that great at developing our talent at all. I'm not sure exactly what they split up between him and the assistant coaches, but with the exception of Smith (maybe Marvin), nobody's development has particularly impressed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusBoyIsBack Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Woody isn't a good coach but the idea of firing a coach when we make the playoffs in the first time in 10 years just won't happen. Especially when the team has improved their win total every year since the rebuilding. It will take a season or two of futility after this one or a complete collapse and missing of playoffs this year for that to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seano Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 It's a really strange situation. You've got a coach who's apparently (supposedly) lost the confidence of his general manager and all but a few players on his team, but then again he's got his team on a serious hot streak and ready to claim a playoff berth for the first time in what seems like forever. It seems to me like something is going to have to give between Woody and BK. It's just really hard to imagine both of them staying, and how they could possibly have a positive working relationship together if they did do so....again, this is assuming the reports are true and that BK did in fact kind of throw Woodson underneath the bus and try to get him fired. Maybe a clean sweep in which we get rid of them both, or maybe one or the other- but I can't see both of them being back. At least I hope not. I don't think it'd be healthy..... And should a playoff berth in a weak conference be enough to save Woody's job, or BK's? I dunno. And what if we upset the Celtics in round one? I know, I know. That's extremely unlikely, but it's not without precedent, in fact very recent precedent. Call it the Golden State corollary. They underachieved all year long last season, but then went on that incredible run at the very end when it mattered most of all. They won 16 of their last 20 just to barely squeak in- and then proceeded to knock off #1 Dallas in the opening round before giving Utah a hell of a battle in the semifinals. So, it is possible. And the Celts are nowhere near unbeatable. They've got a roster full of players without much playoff success at all, most notably Kevin Garnett. But anyway, would/should a victory in round one be enough to save Woody and/or BK's jobs? I honestly don't know, but I think I'd personally be inclined to reward them and give them a show of faith of one more year, with the proviso that next year we go even further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefloydian Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 If we were to upset Boston, I think there is no way they could fire Woody. I'm starting to think they might not fire him now as long as we make the playoffs considering the way we are finishing the season. It's a difficult situation, that's for sure. As much as I'd like a new coach, I don't want to fire him if it messes with the players' heads. They seem to be gelling as a team right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dexmethylphenidate Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Any one can see that this team has the talent for the playoffs in the east. It's a bigger issue if they don't make the playoff than making it. I think player development... OFF THE FIELD... is going nicely. However, player development on the field isn't doing so well... think Diaw, Solomon Jones, Acie Law. The biggest thing that really stands out is his game management... how he subs in players and calling timeouts. Prime example are starters with 2 fouls = sit until 3rd quarter and bench players don't get any minutes in a blowout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seano Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 I agree with you, thefloridian. BTW, is that the late, great Dr. Hunter S. Thompson in your avatar? Sure looks like him. If so, great choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swatguy Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 It has been said "Josh and Woody will not both be back". Meaning one or both will not be back. I believe with playoff success, that ("Josh and Woody will not both be back". ) can change. I believe the owners will listen to a few key people ('Nique, BK, Joe, Bibby, JSmith), and make the decision on Woody. Say what you will but, Woody took what BK gave him though ALL the Flaws and Drama's, all the youth and immaturity and have delivered on his promise. A scrappy, hard playing, not quitting, playoff team. Woody has done his job and he is still in it. The roster is still incomplete and Woody has worked with that too. I think he has deserved the extention. P. S. BK after all may Not have gone for Woodys head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefloydian Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Yeah, that's Hunter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swatguy Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Quote: Yeah, that's Hunter. I read "Fear and Loathing ion Las Vegas" as a younger man. I admired him then and recognized situations in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefloydian Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 He was a good man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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