KB the Company Man...

[Diesel]

KB, I'm trying to understand... YOU never go against the company. Even when they are 1000% in the wrong. What gives?

[exodus]

I used to think he just had a mancrush on BK but now it appears he will pretty much support any management decision. Either that or he is heartboken over the loss of BK in searching for someone new to latch onto.

I don't like or dislike the Sund hire. I am sort of like whatever lets see what he does first before we start judging him.

[Diesel]

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I used to think he just had a mancrush on BK but now it appears he will pretty much support any management decision. Either that or he is heartboken over the loss of BK in searching for someone new to latch onto.

I don't like or dislike the Sund hire. I am sort of like whatever lets see what he does first before we start judging him.

I have no recourse but to wait and see about Sund..

But his history has to make you raise an eyebrow. For anybody to say it's a good fit..... They haven't been paying attention or they don't care. I think it's a transitional GM. HOPEFULLY.

[KB21]

I'm not sure how my wait and see approach on Rick Sund means that I am a company man. I also fail to see how me not having a knee jerk reaction to unfounded speculation means that I am a company man.

[KB21]

I'm curious. Exactly how is Rick Sund's history enough to make you raise an eyebrow, but Billy King's history somehow shouldn't make you raise an eyebrow if he had been hired?

[NJHAWK]

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I'm curious. Exactly how is Rick Sund's history enough to make you raise an eyebrow, but Billy King's history somehow shouldn't make you raise an eyebrow if he had been hired?

LOL I hear ya. Billy King would have been a reason to cry today. Sund doesnt exactly make me cheer but we will have to wait and see.

[EazyRoc]

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I'm curious. Exactly how is Rick Sund's history enough to make you raise an eyebrow, but Billy King's history somehow shouldn't make you raise an eyebrow if he had been hired?

LOL I hear ya. Billy King would have been a reason to cry today. Sund doesnt exactly make me cheer but we will have to wait and see.

Billy King put a playoff team together only a few years after trading away his superstar. He catches too much flak just because he's given away a lot of bad contracts. I know if he was he re with the ASG, that wouldn't have happened. Oh well..Rick Sund has made some good trades. He absolutely robbed Milwaukee with the Ray Allen trade. Let's see if he can work some magic here in the A-town.

[Diesel]

Billy King has never had trouble spotting talented players.

Rick Sund's drafts look like disasters.

Billy King has never had trouble getting good coaches. His worst coach was half a year with Randy Ayers and that's only because Ayers was top assistant to Larry Brown and when LB pulled his normal Disappearing act, to keep continuity, King hired Ayers... But once he found that it wasn't working, he fired Ayers. Ayers was a .400 coach.

Rick Sund hired M.L. Carr and Bob Weiss.

[DrReality]

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Billy King has never had trouble spotting talented players.

Rick Sund's drafts look like disasters.

Billy King has never had trouble getting good coaches. His worst coach was half a year with Randy Ayers and that's only because Ayers was top assistant to Larry Brown and when LB pulled his normal Disappearing act, to keep continuity, King hired Ayers... But once he found that it wasn't working, he fired Ayers. Ayers was a .400 coach.

Rick Sund hired M.L. Carr and Bob Weiss.

Let's hope he learned from those hires.

[Diesel]

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Billy King has never had trouble spotting talented players.

Rick Sund's drafts look like disasters.

Billy King has never had trouble getting good coaches. His worst coach was half a year with Randy Ayers and that's only because Ayers was top assistant to Larry Brown and when LB pulled his normal Disappearing act, to keep continuity, King hired Ayers... But once he found that it wasn't working, he fired Ayers. Ayers was a .400 coach.

Rick Sund hired M.L. Carr and Bob Weiss.

Let's hope he learned from those hires.

Yeah!!! Let's Hope!!!

[KB21]

M.L. Carr?

When did Rick Sund hire M.L. Carr? He has never coached nor played for a team that Rick Sund has run.

[sturt]

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Rick Sund hired M.L. Carr and Bob Weiss.

And... Quinn Buckner.

Though, I have to admit, I'm a little cloudy on what Sund was specifically responsible for in Dallas and Detroit.... I remember his name from his Dallas days, but when I look at his bio, I only find "General Manager" attached to his Seattle tenure.

EDIT: Yeah... I'm also not aware of the ML Carr thing... reference, Diesel???

[Diesel]

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M.L. Carr?

When did Rick Sund hire M.L. Carr? He has never coached nor played for a team that Rick Sund has run.

I meant Quinn Buckner.

[shock]

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Billy King has never had trouble spotting talented players.

Rick Sund's drafts look like disasters.

Billy King has never had trouble getting good coaches. His worst coach was half a year with Randy Ayers and that's only because Ayers was top assistant to Larry Brown and when LB pulled his normal Disappearing act, to keep continuity, King hired Ayers... But once he found that it wasn't working, he fired Ayers. Ayers was a .400 coach.

Rick Sund hired M.L. Carr and Bob Weiss.

Well ya know Deez, for all of the bad draft picks, coaching hires you claim Sund to have made, dont forget about the horrible contacts your boy Billy King hands out.

Here is a piece from Bill Simmons column, "Atrocious GM Summit":

King: I'm also a big fan of giving out absurd contracts that tie up your cap space, for three reasons. First, it drives the fans crazy and gets them talking about the team. Second, your fans won't complain that you aren't making any big moves, simply because you can't make any big moves, your lack of cap space prohibits you from getting quality guys unless they have baggage. And third, when people look back and try to put your reign in some sort of historical context, those salary numbers will jump out even more.

Just look at what I've done in Philly: Since we made the 2001 Finals, I gave Mutombo a $68 million extension even though he could have been, like, 48 years old for all we knew. I gave $35.5 million to Aaron McKie. I gave $29 million to Eric Snow. I gave $18 million to Greg Buckner. I gave $40 million to Kenny Thomas and $25 million to Brian Skinner. I gave $25 million to Kyle Korver and $60 million to Sam Dalembert last summer. That's $300 million of contracts to guys who were either on the decline or never that good in the first place. Plus, I traded for other bad contracts, guys like Keith Van Horn, Glenn Robinson, Kevin Ollie, you name it. And then, last February, the pinnacle -- dumping three bad contracts for C-Webb, who everyone thought couldn't be traded because of his contract and because he ran with a limp. Now we have an aging team built around two past-their-prime stars and our cap space is killed through 2008. And we completely wasted Iverson's prime, when he was one of the best players of his generation.

[Diesel]

Bill Simmons...

Now that's Journalism? Unbiased Journalism at that?

As far as "MY BOY" King goes...

He has put together Championship calibre teams before.

He has made good draft picks before.

He has traded away his franchise player and still managed to put a team in the playoff the next year.

It's about team building.

NOW about the contracts.

ASK YOURSELF.

How many outrages contracts will the ASG sign off on?

My guess is probably Zero.

Our position is not for a top negotiator who can always get guys in for the cheap.

Our position is for a guy who can bring in talent and build a team the right way.... Via Draft, Via Trade, or Via Free agency.

King has shown that he can do that.

Sund... Not so much.

You draft the same position in three consecutive drafts... that doesn't speak well of your ability to spot talent or to develop a team. Moreover, they went after these guys while they had Peja and Potapenko on the team...

You trade for a carbon copy of what you already have (Trade for Watson when he had just signed Ridnour)... That doesn't speak well for your ability to put together a good team.

Sund GMing looks like death by redundancy.

[KB21]

Billy King hasn't done anything notable in his career without the guidance of Larry Brown. As long as he had Brown to tell him what to do, he was fine. Without Brown, Billy King made a string of terrible personnel decisions that basically buried what Larry Brown had built in Philly. Billy King reported to Larry Brown in Philly. It's not a coincidence that King started to make some good trades when Larry Brown was rehired in Philadelphia in a front office capacity.

Rick Sund's resume is much stronger than Billy King's resume.

[exodus]

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Billy King hasn't done anything notable in his career without the guidance of Larry Brown. As long as he had Brown to tell him what to do, he was fine. Without Brown, Billy King made a string of terrible personnel decisions that basically buried what Larry Brown had built in Philly. Billy King reported to Larry Brown in Philly. It's not a coincidence that King started to make some good trades when Larry Brown was rehired in Philadelphia in a front office capacity.

Rick Sund's resume is much stronger than Billy King's resume.

If the Hawks had hired King and someone was saying Sund was a better choice you would be saying..

"Billy King's resume is much stronger than Rick Sund's resume."

Personally i am just glad the Hawks got an outsider. I don't really have an opinion on Sund one way or the other.

[HawkItus]

so because a fan can be logical.....not make irrational assumptions due to yellow journalism....and actually roots for the organization....he's a company man?......good for KB

[AHF]

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so because a fan can be logical.....not make irrational assumptions due to yellow journalism....and actually roots for the organization....he's a company man?......good for KB

In fairness to D and others, KB has shown support for the company line that is difficult to understand on numerous occassions in the past. For example, KB bashed the living #?*# out of Shelden Williams until it leaked to the media that Shelden was the Hawks' pick. At that point, KB flip-flopped and steadfastly supported BK's selection of Shelden. When people asked him how he could change his mind like that and pointed out he appeared to simply change his mind after it became public that Shelden was BK's guy, KB didn't really ever explain that change of heart. So I guess I am saying that at times it appears that the support for Billy Knight at times did not appear to be logical but definitely appeared consistent in terms of the absence of criticism.

[pimp]

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so because a fan can be logical.....not make irrational assumptions due to yellow journalism....and actually roots for the organization....he's a company man?......good for KB

In fairness to D and others, KB has shown support for the company line that is difficult to understand on numerous occassions in the past. For example, KB bashed the living #?*# out of Shelden Williams until it leaked to the media that Shelden was the Hawks' pick. At that point, KB flip-flopped and steadfastly supported BK's selection of Shelden. When people asked him how he could change his mind like that and pointed out he appeared to simply change his mind after it became public that Shelden was BK's guy, KB didn't really ever explain that change of heart. So I guess I am saying that at times it appears that the support for Billy Knight at times did not appear to be logical but definitely appeared consistent in terms of the absence of criticism.

I think him saying over and over that BK has never made a bad/ wrong move earned im that title.He wouldn't even giving John Edwards a 2 year deal was bad.