Two year extension offered to Woodson

[exodus]

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To decide whether or not to keep Woody, Sund needed to dig a little more than the average Hawksquawk Joe. Part of that digging should have included interviewing other coaches to see who the best candidate was. we heard all about all the guys coming in to interview for the GM position but nothing about any coaching candidates coming in for interviews. Any average Hawksquawk Joe can tell you that it is hard to pick the best candidate when only one candidate gets interviewed.

[AHF]

Actually, for my view of Sund I wish that the ASG had already put the offer on the table to Woodson before he came on board. I question his judgment if he had total authority and thought Woodson was the best candidate of anyone without interviewing a single candidate (good point Ex), and I don't like it much better if this was forced on his by ownership. It certainly puts a bad taste in my mouth for the beginning of Sund's era in Atlanta even though it is not a surprise at all. I hope he brings someone in to be a strong assistant coach specializing in offense if Woodson is returning as head coach.(I agree with whoever said that you had to offer Woodson at least 2 years if you made any offer to him. There is no point in making an offer unless you think he will succeed and giving a 1 year deal limits his ability to succeed.)

[sturt]

Preface: While I appreciate that my posts are so salient that ex feels that they need his commentary and broad disparagement, I don't make it my habit to respond to him ordinarily just out of the tedious nature of any dialogue with the young man. But, given the news of the day, I will make an exception.

Any average Hawksquawk Joe, and for that matter any one of less-than-average intelligence can tell you that one conducts interviews when one doesn't have enough information on the person's previous job performance from which to make a judgment.

That is, hiring an NBA coach isn't like hiring for the vacancy in the cubicle beside you. To be employed as a coach in the NBA is to be employed in one of the world's very small fishbowls. Evaluating how a person has performed in their previous opportunities and how they might make sense in the vacancy here isn't about resumes and interviews nearly so much as it is about straight-up observation and talking with their previous supervisors.

Seems to be pretty clear, then... Sund saw some promise in keeping Woody compared with experimenting with the alternatives, even though he hopefully also recognized some of Woody's growing pains.

Many here disagree with that. But the ones who disagree yet recognize their deficit in trying to evaluate as Sund had the resources to evaluate are the ones who merit respect for their disagreement... not the Eeyores with an authority-lust.

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EDIT: In hindsight...

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...we heard all about all the guys coming in to interview for the GM position but...

Oh really?

Want to explain that assertion before I go back and dig up all of the complaining about how little information anyone was giving out... not to mention the complete non-mention of Rick Sund until practically the day his hiring was announced?

So....

If you were making an attempt at an honest, forthright discussion, you would have acknowledged that you actually HAVE NO CLUE whether Sund seriously spoke with anyone else about the job.

That's... if you were so inclined, which is self-evidently not the case.

[TheTrueSiete]

The only questions are DID THE ATLANTA HAWKS UNDERACHIEVE LAST YEAR? and COULD A DIFFERENT COACH HAVE COACHED THIS TEAM TO A BETTER SEED IN THE NBA PLAYOFFS?Shake your head all you want, but I have read enough of your posts to realize that you are all FOR whatever the ASG decides!7

[LawDog]

Dear Hawks fans,We can't believe you're bashing this extension? Woodson has improved his win total every year! If he improves it by 5 games each of the next two season then you're in the high 40's!! At that rate he'll eventually have an undefeated season!!! It's a great thing that, with all the talent the Hawks return, that they're going to keep this coach. He'll be sure that they're utilized in the best manner possible and we truly fear playing your team while Coach Woody is the coach. We look forward to more 3's from Smoove, and more 3v1 plays from Joe Johnson as your base offense. One other thing to consider is that your players will almost NEVER foul out. How can you not appreciate a coach who plans ahead? Enjoy your rise to glory. Sincerely, Every other Eastern Conference team(Chicago signed reluctantly)

[sturt]

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The only questions are DID THE ATLANTA HAWKS UNDERACHIEVE LAST YEAR? and COULD A DIFFERENT COACH HAVE COACHED THIS TEAM TO A BETTER SEED IN THE NBA PLAYOFFS?Siete, I just try to add some occasional reason to what is mostly emotional arguments. Often that ends up coming off as supportive of the decision-makers. It's kind of for the same reason that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer... the rich know how to make money and the poor don't... and fairly often, the people who get to a place where they are called upon to make decisions are the same people who have been successful in making decisions... meanwhile, the people who don't get to... haven't.So, given your assertion, and obviously your vast resources from which to glean the knowledge, how do YOU measure underachievement?(It's quite fascinating because, I don't know about you particularly, but I'm pretty sure I recall most Hawksquawkers predicting something in the range of a 35 win season last October.)

[thescout5]

Just great Woodson offered a contract for not 1 but 2 yrs. Holy cow I guess if you do a bad job nowadays you get a bigger contract. Whoever made this decision doesn't know basketball. All we get is excuses from Woodson in why the Hawk's underachieve. Players developing, injuries etc etc yet when you watch the games you clearly see this is a poorly coached team. Fundamentals, substitutions, play calling yet Woodson will be back for 2 more yrs to !%%ck up the team.I hope I am wrong but bringing the same cast of characters back we just may see this team reach a mighty 500 record thats it. Woody has already had 4 yrs and still can't get to 500 2 more yrs will be 2 yrs down the drain. I don't see players like J Smith and Marvin Developing much better than they are now despite there recent improved play. Will Law get any playing time with Woody back? It will be the same underachieving team we saw this year even with a healthy team.I think the Hawk's won in the playoffs in spite of Woodson not because of him. When will we see team ball ? Passing,rebounding, boxing out on the boards, better shot selection instead of low IQ plays?

[exodus]

You are the one who constantly defends BK and the roster that he put together. So the fact that the Hawks won only 37 games in a horrible coference has to be put a the feet of either BK or Woody. Take your pick. Are you saying that Woody did a good job getting the most out of this roster? if so then the roster must be pretty flawed to only muster 37 wins in the 4th year or rebuilding. The bottom line is the standings. They don't lie.

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Seems to be pretty clear, then... Sund saw some promise in keeping Woody compared with experimenting with the alternativesIt is funny how you talk about other people making assumptions when you are doing the same thing here. You are assuming that Sund made his decision solely based on his interviews. It is very possible that he was directed to rehire Woody by the ASG, as Gearon hinted long before Sund was hired. However when you make assumptions they are "pretty clear" but when other people do it they are just uninformed Joe's jumping to conclusions.

[exodus]

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Dear Hawks fans,We can't believe you're bashing this extension? Woodson has improved his win total every year! If he improves it by 5 games each of the next two season then you're in the high 40's!! At that rate he'll eventually have an undefeated season!!! It's a great thing that, with all the talent the Hawks return, that they're going to keep this coach. He'll be sure that they're utilized in the best manner possible and we truly fear playing your team while Coach Woody is the coach. We look forward to more 3's from Smoove, and more 3v1 plays from Joe Johnson as your base offense. One other thing to consider is that your players will almost NEVER foul out. How can you not appreciate a coach who plans ahead? Enjoy your rise to glory. Sincerely, Every other Eastern Conference team(Chicago signed reluctantly)I nominate this as the best 1st post ever from a new poster.

[AHF]

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Dear Hawks fans,We can't believe you're bashing this extension? Woodson has improved his win total every year! If he improves it by 5 games each of the next two season then you're in the high 40's!! At that rate he'll eventually have an undefeated season!!! It's a great thing that, with all the talent the Hawks return, that they're going to keep this coach. He'll be sure that they're utilized in the best manner possible and we truly fear playing your team while Coach Woody is the coach. We look forward to more 3's from Smoove, and more 3v1 plays from Joe Johnson as your base offense. One other thing to consider is that your players will almost NEVER foul out. How can you not appreciate a coach who plans ahead? Enjoy your rise to glory. Sincerely, Every other Eastern Conference team(Chicago signed reluctantly)I nominate this as the best 1st post i have ever seen from a new poster.Agreed!

[frosgrim]

This is the bad news that I've been dreading since the end of the season. The ASG certainly tries hard to make it hard to cheer for their teams. For those of you that only pay attention to the Hawks, take a look at what the ASG is doing to (or not to) the Thrashers. If you are in support of what the ASG has done with the Hawks because you think that they are operating in out of an understanding of pro-sports and how to interact with the fans, take a look at the hockey operations:The Thrashers have had 1 GM in 9 years of existence. They have 1 playoff appearenceThey have never developed an all-star, blueline player, ever. The best defenseman developed through the organization is Exelby, who is a mid-level player.They have never developed a 1st or 2nd line centerman- ever. How is that possible? They fired the one coach that got the team to the playoffs in franchise history after 6 games! Then never replaced him.We are now at June 12, and the Thrashers still have no coach. The one guy that would have made a real difference turned the Thrashers down out of hand (McClellen). The best player on the Thrashers will force a trade very soon (Kovolchuk). Now look at the Hawks side. A very similar pattern is there. The ASG is truly clueless. They can't get out of their own way to improve the clubs. From where I sit, the ASG has hired guys to do their will: Waddell & Sund. That will appears to be stay inside a comfort zone. The keeping Woodson, attempting to keep BK, and keeping Waddell all are strong indications that the ASG simply does not have the collective will to change what they are doing, even in the face of evidence that things are seriously broaken (e.g. Thrashers). I will have a very hard time watching either team come this winter. Hopefully, I do mean this, hopefully, the real problem lies with the relationship with Belkin. The spectre of the law suit has tied the ASG owners' hands in terms of them actually being out there making bold moves to better the leadership of both teams. The other option is that the owners Gearon and the D.C. group believe that they know how to run the Hawks and Thrashers (respectively) better than the GMs they have employed. The owners are then making the decissions and the GMs are figure heads. From where I sit, option 2 looks more and more likely.

[Packfill]

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Preface: While I appreciate that my posts are so salient that ex feels that they need his commentary and broad disparagement, I don't make it my habit to respond to him ordinarily just out of the tedious nature of any dialogue with the young man. But, given the news of the day, I will make an exception.

Any average Hawksquawk Joe, and for that matter any one of less-than-average intelligence can tell you that one conducts interviews when one doesn't have enough information on the person's previous job performance from which to make a judgment.

That is, hiring an NBA coach isn't like hiring for the vacancy in the cubicle beside you. To be employed as a coach in the NBA is to be employed in one of the world's very small fishbowls. Evaluating how a person has performed in their previous opportunities and how they might make sense in the vacancy here isn't about resumes and interviews nearly so much as it is about straight-up observation and talking with their previous supervisors.

Please tell me you do not really believe this. If this were the case then every Fortune 500 CEO would be hired without an interview.

Besides, Woody's previous supervisor wanted him fired.

[ATLBob]

Totally believable, unfortunately, but so, SO deflating.

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Also, hopefully, Law can stay healthy and develop.

From where. the bench?

Pretty sure he's got riding the pine down already.

I, too, am disgusted. Couldn't Gearon just have hired himself as GM so that we could openly ridicule him instead of pretending that Sund has any autonomy?

At least M.L. Carr might consider hiring a cheap head coach that believes in running offensive sets instead of a cheap coach who's ridiculous substitutions were ridiculed on the national stage in our supposed biggest moment.

Maybe Gearon and Belkin could merge in El Super-Diablo. Preferably, they could just get a civil union and go away on permanent honeymoon.

[sturt]

First, don't flatter yourself, ex.You've rarely, if ever, acknowledged the possible legitimacy of an opposing viewpoint, and rarely, if ever, acknowledged the negative presumptions you bring to just about any issue. Someone else practically always has to come along behind you and point it out, and then you respond with a Pee Wee Herman-like "I know you are but what am I?"Btw, and... yes, "to be clear"... I said nothing about Sund conducing interviews.Second, we just completely disagree.The worth of a coach is only informed, not once-and-for-all-dictated, by W/L records.Why do you feel you have to hang on to such a flimsy argument? Doc Rivers wasn't a terrible coach in his first job just because of the numbers, and he's not a great coach in his second just because of the numbers. He may have been a great coach all along, and he may have been a terrible coach all along, but regardless, it IS a lie to rely SOLELY on W/L records.

[bronnt]

Prediction:November 2-Atlanta Hawks win season opener at home. Optimism springs bounteously from all quarters. Unrealistic expectations are set.November 4-Atlanta gets blown at Miami (Michael Beasley is held to a respectable 14 points). The season's first instance of Woodson saying "We weren't ready to play tonight." Confusion sets in, since there are no new players on the roster, and it's too early for players to lose focus.November 16-Chicago visits Atlanta. The know-it-all early-returns watchers begin calling Derrick Rose a bust. Rose then scores 25 on Atlanta with 9 assists. Acie Law remains seated on the bench for 40 minutes.December 4-Atlanta visits New York, still looking for their first road win, and trying to get it against the lowly Knicks. Atlanta takes a lead into the fourth quarter and then immediately sits on it, running isolations for JJ, while the Knicks double team and force him back toward half court. Atlanta blows the lead, Josh Smith gets into a shouting match with Coach Woodson.December 16-Atlanta picks up first road win in Orlando. Some degree of optimism returns, as the Hawks reel off victories over Charlotte, Memphis, Toronto, and New Jersey.January 18-Atlanta follows up winning streak with terrible stretch, losing 8 of 9. Josh Smith demands to be traded. Joe Johnson complains about his young teammates. Mike Bibby is shopped around, but barely draws any interest.January 30-Atlanta at LaL. Worst lost of season, as Atlanta scores only 64 points and is nearly doubled-up by the Lakers, who score 118. Kobe Bryant goes off for 68, and sits nearly the entire fourth quarter. Andrew Bynum chips in 24.April 2-Hawks are eliminated from playoff contention.May 16-Hawks get lucky in the lottery, ended up with the 2nd overall pick. Trade rumors begin flying as the Hawks hope to select Drandon Jennings. Unfortunately, the Hawks later select Demar DeRozan out of USC instead. Joe Johnson demands to be traded. Woodson is fired, to be replaced by Herb Williams.

[exodus]

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He may have been a great coach all along, and he may have been a terrible coach all along, but regardless, it IS a lie to rely SOLELY on W/L records.

No it isn't.

The record indicates a failure of either BK's ability to build a quality roster or Woodys ability to coach it. Take your pick.

Your idol BK tried to fire Woody so obviously he didn't think too much of Woody's job performance. Either BK was wrong, Sund is wrong or the ASG is the one who made the decision and Sunds hands are tied.

You can't dance around the facts no matter how hard you try.

[sturt]

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Please tell me you do not really believe this. If this were the case then every Fortune 500 CEO would be hired without an interview. OH COMMMMME ONNNNN.Give me a break. Are you so in passionate love with your position that you cannot even acknowledge this SIMPLE truth?When's the last time you spent two hours watching a CEO manage his team even once? What's more... think Fortune 30, not 500.There are 30 teams that have coaching staffs from which a given team typically will choose to make hires, plus a handful that are former employees.

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Besides, Woody's previous supervisor wanted him fired.Yes. And, come to think of it, wasn't that the very popular and well-regarded GM who everyone here admired and thought was just a wonderful decision-maker?So, now, it's convenient to hide behind BK as if you LIKED his decision-making?????....sheesh...

[exodus]

Which of these two statements is true;1) BK was wrong for trying to fire Woody. 2) Sund is wrong for hiring Woody. You can pick only one. *waits for inevitable dodge*

[TheTrueSiete]

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The only questions are DID THE ATLANTA HAWKS UNDERACHIEVE LAST YEAR? and COULD A DIFFERENT COACH HAVE COACHED THIS TEAM TO A BETTER SEED IN THE NBA PLAYOFFS?

So, given your assertion, and obviously your vast resources from which to glean the knowledge, how do YOU measure underachievement?

(It's quite fascinating because, I don't know about you particularly, but I'm pretty sure I recall most Hawksquawkers predicting something in the range of a 35 win season last October.)

I thought it was fairly easy to see that we underachieved (in the EASTERN CONFERENCE) this year... My proof is how we performed in the playoffs... Had we performed like we did in the home games more this season we wouldn't have been the #8 seed... Had we not been the #8 seed, would we have made it further in the playoffs?

Plus, I honestly don't see why I always argue the point that we need a new coach... I think his record speaks for itself... You can make up all the excuses you want, but that only justifies his first through third season as coach... You can't honestly tell me that we didn't underachieve this year in the weak East...

7

[TheTrueSiete]

Oh, and by the way, I didn't predict a number of wins prior to this year, but I did get a ton of "WTF" looks for my playoff prediction... 7