Sasha Volkov Brings Up An Interesting Stat...

[Guest Walter]

Childress isn't creating anything. he is just a good cherry picker.

IF JC isn't creating anything imagine creating significantly worse which is what 0% assisted clutch FGs by MW indicates.

Again, I never called JC the great creator but MW is worse. Hands down.

W

[Swish]

Wait...I'm confused-is Diesel a cranky old white man like dolfan says or a kid like nbasuperstar40 suggests???

[exodus]

IF JC isn't creating anything imagine creating significantly worse which is what 0% assisted clutch FGs by MW indicates.

Again, I never called JC the great creator but MW is worse. Hands down.

W

Nobody is assisting MW getting to the foul line (no matter what delusions you may have) and he is getting to the line more than anyone on the team in clutch time. He is also shooting 80% when he gets there.

That means that MW is scoring 11.92 pts per 48 minutes of clutch time on foul shooting alone, almost as many as Childress' 13 total points in clutch time.

[Traceman]

So how do other players "assist" Marvin at getting to the foul line?

By making a good pass. Considering he never scored an unassisted FG in the clutch, he likely never got an unassisted FT attempt in the clutch.

MW's A/TO ratio in the clutch is higher than Childress despite NEVER managing to create for himself! He's clearly trying (see the TOs). MW just sucks at creating for himself in the clutch.

Oh, and I can see JJ shooting 33% in the clutch seeing as he is asked to take many such shots. MW and JC are asked to take them about as often and one shoots 77% while the other shoots 37%. Ouch.

W

You sound desperate and pathetic. Assisted FT attempts? LOL! So now, the great passes of his teammates are creating all of these FT opportunities for Marv? If that is the case, why can they seeming only throw great passes to Marv? Why can't they throw great passes to each other?

Anyone who watches the Hawks can CLEARLY see that Marv gets to the line a LOT (both in crunch time and outside crunch time) by putting the ball on the floor and drawing contact on his drive to the hoop. Does he struggle to finish? Yep. But he DOES manage to draw a foul more often than not. He also makes most of his FTs after the foul has been committed. Those drives to the hoop are the result of him creating his own shot. He might not finish the drive but he does get fouled and make the FTs. As the saying goes, "2 points are 2 points!"

The A/TO ratio edge means little when Chillz was doing so relatively little else in comparison to Marv during crunch time. Why should Chillz turn the ball over in crunch time? He was only taking about half as many shots as Marv was taking and he was taking only a 3rd as many FTs. He didn't have the ball in crunch time! Meanwhile, Marv was creating. He was creating foul shot opportunities (14.9 versus 5.3 for Chillz). He was creating points ( 19.8 versus 13 for Chillz). He was creating steals (2.8 versus 0 for Chillz). He was grabbing rebounds (7.8 to 5.8 for Chillz).

As for the FG%, if you are only taking 6.3 shots per 48 minutes and virtually ALL of them are coming from within FIVE FEET of the basket, shouldn't you shoot a ridiculously high percentage? Look at the players immediately around Chillz with regard to the number of FG attempts taken in the clutch. Bruce Bowen, Erick Dampier, Anderson Varejao and Ben Wallace. Dampier shot 71% in the clutch. That says it all with regard to Chillz great FG%.

[Traceman]

it is true that Childress chokes at the line at crunch time. I hated when he had to go to the line late. but we could count on him for a big bucket or rebound,not with Marvin.

but we could count on him for a big bucket or rebound,not with Marvin

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good "dis." If the above statement is true, why did Marv score a LOT more in the clutch and rebound significantly more in the clutch than Chillz? Marv scored 19.8 pts per 48 to Chillz 13.0 pts per 48. Marv grabbed 7.8 rbs per 48 to Chillz 5.8 rbs per 48. Marv was CLEARLY more productive in the clutch.

[Cwell]

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good "dis." If the above statement is true, why did Marv score a LOT more in the clutch and rebound significantly more in the clutch than Chillz? Marv scored 19.8 pts per 48 to Chillz 13.0 pts per 48. Marv grabbed 7.8 rbs per 48 to Chillz 5.8 rbs per 48. Marv was CLEARLY more productive in the clutch.

quit with all that. What do u exactly mean by clutch? The score factors in with those BS numbers right? if not then that doesn't prove anything.

[Traceman]

quit with all that. What do u exactly mean by clutch? The score factors in with those BS numbers right? if not then that doesn't prove anything.

Yes, the score DOES factor in. "Clutch time" for the purposes of our discussion is "4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points."

[Cwell]

Yes, the score DOES factor in. "Clutch time" for the purposes of our discussion is "4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points."

okay I was about to say.

[Admin]

quit with all that. What do u exactly mean by clutch? The score factors in with those BS numbers right? if not then that doesn't prove anything.

On an unrelated note, Cwell, your posts have been MUCH easier to read lately now that you have started using spaces ... so thanks!

[Cwell]

On an unrelated note, Cwell, your posts have been MUCH easier to read lately now that you have started using spaces ... so thanks!

yeah thanks, i've been thinking about that.

[Admin]

yeah thanks, i've been thinking about that.

Mikey's all grows'd up!

[Diesel]

I didn't realize that players got assists on free throws.

So you think Marvin caught the pass and then got immediately fouled without bothering to move? If you believe that then i have another question for you. Do you believe in the Yeti?

Do you even watch the games? During crunch time every play is an ISO for JJ. He dribbles around and then shoots or passes at the end of the clock.

During the 4th quarter as a whole Marvins assisted baskets were at 70% (only 3% higher than his overall average) compared to 66% for Childress.

I think what you fail to realize is this... If JJ (god forbid) goes down... Marvin goes down with him. PERIOD. The stats show it, when Marvin plays it's shown. Marvin lives off of the assists that JJ gives him and nothing else.

JChillz on the other hand could still score and would probably increase his scoring if JJ goes down.

That's the conversation.

IS JC a clutch FT shooter.. Not this season. However, I notice that you failed to mention that JC was almost 80% FG% in the clutch. Let's think about that. JC is hitting shots at an almost 80% clip!!! While Marvin is hitting FG at a 36% clip in the Clutch. Lord I hope Marvin got to the line 3 times as much as Chillz. Chillz just happens to be a 4th option so his points are really points that he creates for himself. At the rate their going, if Chillz were getting to the ball as much as Marvin, Chillz would be a 25 pt scorer in the clutch.

Where's Trace...

Trace, do the math...

Marvin shot 36% in the clutch... and he scored how many points? 19.8/48?

Chillz shot ~80% in the clutch... and he scored about 13.0/48.

Trace, if CHillz shot as many shots as Marvin were given, how many points would that translate to? Something like 35/48 right?

Edited August 4, 2008 by Diesel

[Admin]

I think what you fail to realize is this... If JJ (god forbid) goes down... Marvin goes down with him. PERIOD. The stats show it, when Marvin plays it's shown. Marvin lives off of the assists that JJ gives him and nothing else.

JChillz on the other hand could still score and would probably increase his scoring if JJ goes down.

That's the conversation.

IS JC a clutch FT shooter.. Not this season. However, I notice that you failed to mention that JC was almost 80% FG% in the clutch. Let's think about that. JC is hitting shots at an almost 80% clip!!! While Marvin is hitting FG at a 36% clip in the Clutch. Lord I hope Marvin got to the line 3 times as much as Chillz. Chillz just happens to be a 4th option so his points are really points that he creates for himself. At the rate their going, if Chillz were getting to the ball as much as Marvin, Chillz would be a 25 pt scorer in the clutch.

Where's Trace...

Trace, do the math...

Marvin shot 36% in the clutch... and he scored how many points? 19.8/48?

Chillz shot ~80% in the clutch... and he scored about 13.0/48.

Trace, if CHillz shot as many shots as Marvin were given, how many points would that translate to? Something like 35/48 right?

D, what happened the ONE GAME where Marvin was allowed to be the 1st option last year? Did Marvin go down? Not sure what game I'm talking about? Here's a hint, it's the ONLY game where Marvin got 20 shots (exactly 20 shots).

[exodus]

Marvin lives off of the assists that JJ gives him and nothing else.

I guess Marvin's 14.9 free throws per 48 in crunch time count as "nothing else", right? Marvin scored nearly as many points at the foul line as Childress did overall.

JChillz on the other hand could still score and would probably increase his scoring if JJ goes down.

Childress has no 1 on 1 game at all. Guys can play way off him because of his shot and he is too slow to drive by a man when he is actually guarded on the perimeter.

JC is hitting shots at an almost 80% clip!!!

That is because all of his shots were dunks or layups. He didn't make a jumper in clutch time all season.

It isn't hard to shoot a high percentage when you take only 6.3 shots per 48 minutes and don't take jumpers. Eric Dampier shot 71% in crunch time on 6.3 attempts. I guess he is a great clutch player.

Incidentally Dampier shot the same percentage as Childress from the foul line in clutch time.

Edited August 4, 2008 by exodus

[Diesel]

You already know I don't care but unlike you I make points and leave. You on the other hand alienated everyone on the site trying to push your silly points that Marvin sucks and get rid of him. Say what you want about me but ppl know what I'm about which is no games. I speak my mind and that's it. Your a hater and or usually a dumba$s. See I'm just keeping it 100% with you kid.

I got a text from your credibility.

It said that there was a lack of communication in your relationship and it had to go.

It said that you just keep talking and talking and talking and then the worst.... You started making up stuff.

Your credibility told me to tell you that it has found someone else whom it thinks the world of and the only way for your credibility to be happy is if you let it leave!

:sad:

[Admin]

I got a text from your credibility.

It said that there was a lack of communication in your relationship and it had to go.

It said that you just keep talking and talking and talking and then the worst.... You started making up stuff.

Your credibility told me to tell you that it has found someone else whom it thinks the world of and the only way for your credibility to be happy is if you let it leave!

:sad:

I'm still waiting for you to answer this question:

D, what happened the ONE GAME where Marvin was allowed to be the 1st option last year? Did Marvin go down? Not sure what game I'm talking about? Here's a hint, it's the ONLY game where Marvin got 20 shots (exactly 20 shots).

[Guest Walter]

Nobody is assisting MW getting to the foul line (no matter what delusions you may have) and he is getting to the line more than anyone on the team in clutch time. He is also shooting 80% when he gets there.

That means that MW is scoring 11.92 pts per 48 minutes of clutch time on foul shooting alone, almost as many as Childress' 13 total points in clutch time.

Thank goodness he scores somehow because he isn't creating his own opportunities be they FGAs or FTAs. That's right. If he can't create a FGA for himself why do you think he's creating FTAs for himself. Someone ELSE is still setting him up. MW's only two offensive strategies are assisted mid-range jumpers and bumbling his way into people. That won't make you anymore than average.

Worst part? When MW isn't busy creating for himself he's still turning the ball over at a higher clip. So MW either bumbles his way into an assisted foul, turns it over, or hits a necessarily assisted, (likely) mid-range (certainly not 3-pt.) jumper at a 37% clip. There is NO OTHER POSSIBILITY FOR MW! None. He is a pony. None of his tricks are good. And all of them rely upon the talent or good will of others to either set him up or bail him out. Why do people insist on defending this? A #2 pick with no sense of urgency, little production, and no passion.

W

Edited August 5, 2008 by Walter

[exodus]

Thank goodness he scores somehow because he isn't creating his own opportunities be they FGAs or FTAs. That's right. If he can't create a FGA for himself why do you think he's creating FTAs for himself. Someone ELSE is still setting him up.

Sure. People are setting him up to be fouled. That is like saying that other people are determining when he goes to the bathroom.

Worst part? When MW isn't busy creating for himself he's still turning the ball over at a higher clip.

News flash!!! People who take it to the basket turn it over more than those who don't!

Why do people insist on defending this? A #2 pick with no sense of urgency, little production, and no passion.

I have no idea how being the number 2 pick has any relevance to his clutch scoring. But then again why would you start making sense now when you haven't done it the entire thread?

15/6 isn't poor production for a 3rd year player. It isn't great but can hardly be described as "little".

[Diesel]

I'm still waiting for you to answer this question:

D, what happened the ONE GAME where Marvin was allowed to be the 1st option last year? Did Marvin go down? Not sure what game I'm talking about? Here's a hint, it's the ONLY game where Marvin got 20 shots (exactly 20 shots).

You mean in front of his homecrowd at Seattle?

Well, if you didn't notice.... Seattle will no longer be a stop.

However, to answer your question, the same thing happened in Seattle as what happened to Damien Wilkins when he came to Atlanta... Young players usually play good in front of friends and families and their teammates make it happen.

Sadly though, you act as if JJ didn't play that game. JJ did play. JJ racked up 7 assists in 35 mins of play. Most of those assists were to Marvin. The rest of the time JJ was a decoy.

Moreover, where was the competition.

You know what the headlines of that game read??

Hawks Send Sonics to 13th Consecutive Loss

Like I said, there will be no more trips to Seattle.

[Admin]

You mean in front of his homecrowd at Seattle?

Well, if you didn't notice.... Seattle will no longer be a stop.

However, to answer your question, the same thing happened in Seattle as what happened to Damien Wilkins when he came to Atlanta... Young players usually play good in front of friends and families and their teammates make it happen.

Sadly though, you act as if JJ didn't play that game. JJ did play. JJ racked up 7 assists in 35 mins of play. Most of those assists were to Marvin. The rest of the time JJ was a decoy.

Moreover, where was the competition.

You know what the headlines of that game read??

Hawks Send Sonics to 13th Consecutive Loss

Like I said, there will be no more trips to Seattle.

It doesn't matter that it was in Seattle. It's still the ONLY game in which he was able to take 20 shots and surprise surprise he performed quite well.

I'm not acting like JJ didn't play, I'm acting like the Hawks made a conscious effort to not force Marvin to be the 3rd-4th option and they actually looked to pass him the ball early in the shot clock instead of having JJ or Smoove dribble.