Joe Choked

[atlien]

http://dimemag.com/2008/12/joe-johnson-haw...boston-celtics/

[exodus]

http://dimemag.com/2008/12/joe-johnson-haw...boston-celtics/

Going into last night’s game, Joe Johnson was shooting 100% from the free throw line in “clutch” situations as defined by 82games.com. But with 2.7 seconds left on the clock, he back-rimmed a free throw that would have tied the game. Ultimately, it cost the Hawks the game.

He isn't at 100% anymore so he must be a choker.

[HalfHawk]

Joe didn't loose that game for us...

The reason we lost was because we missed our first 11 shots...

[Traceman]

He isn't at 100% anymore so he must be a choker.

Obviously, a significant number of posters on the board believe that if you miss a shot that you usuallly make (particularly a FT) at the end of the game, then you have automatically choked. I happen to disagree with that. I think he just missed the shot. He wasn't wobbly. He swished the first one. The 2nd one was just a little too long. Guys who choke miss it short virtually every time.

Since JJ is not a 100% FT shooter, I agree with you that more than likely, the law of averages caught up with him. JJ is shooting 83% from the line this season and 78% from the line for his career. He shot 88% from the line last night.

I hate like hell that JJ missed the FT but I hated like hell that Smoove missed his FT after the big dunk and I hated even more that Marvin missed THREE of 7 FTs last night. No way Marvin should EVER shoot 57% from the line in a game.

JJ was HUGE down the stretch for us in the game last night and he made clutch play after clutch play (scoring, passing, rebounding AND defending) to give us a shot to win. I hate that he missed the FT but after he made big shot after big shot leading up to the FT, I just don't see his miss as a choke.

Screw Paul Pierce! He is a good one to say someone choked. How about his airball from about 2 feet away last spring in Game 6? How about the two late FTs he missed in that game?

[Plainview1981]

LOL . . . tell that to Doc Rivers, defending him like how Detroit used to defend Jordan.

The "JJ Rules".

I find what he does with JJ abit silly. Doc being a silly coach doesn't make JJ a star player. He's not even a good coach. If he didn't have 3 HOF players, he would be fired by now. Phil would have that Boston team even better than they are playing wise. They went alot of games, but they're a pretty sloppy team.

[jhay610]

Hi folks.

Some reality to savor here:

Think back to April when the Hawks were fighting for their season as colossal underdogs. In every single situation when we had to have a bucket, Joe was there.

Great game 3.

Herculean game 4 where he repeatedly shredded the Celts and took us on his back in what Ex appropriately cited as "the biggest Hawks game in a decade". He won that game by himself; clutch bucket after clutch bucket after clutch bucket.

Game 6 - he somehow rises up and hits a 3 with two Celts draped all over him at the end of the shot clock to put us up 4 with seconds remaining after a Celts rally.

Those, my friends, are clutch shots.

This is a regular season game in December. Sure, it hurts because of who the opponent was, but the Hawks had much more on the line last April than they did last night.

I can't even begin to detail all the clutch REGULAR SEASON shots Joe has hit for us because the list would span pages.

To suggest that Joe missed because he shrank from the moment is asinine. He proved himself in primetime for all the world to see in last year's PLAYOFFS. He just clanked a free throw last night in a regular season game. It happens.

The Hawks lost a regular season game to a team that is now 24-2 on the year. They have long sent the message that the Celts will have to fight and scratch for everything they get every time they come to Philips and last night did nothing but reinforce that.

I would be concerned if the Hawks got beat by 10+ last night. That it took a JJ missed free throw for the Celtics to eke out a win does not concern me. I'm betting on Joe to hit those shots come this April. Judging from how we played earlier this year in Boston, we may even be able to be competitive on the road now as well.

Everyone chillax and remember that up until late last year the Hawks were irrelevant to anyone outside this board. Let's try to enjoy the ride and keep it moving forward.

Edited December 18, 2008 by jhay610

[Plainview1981]

I think alot less people here would be less upset (Not saying I'm one of them) if it had happened against GS or somebody. But it's going to gripe people to no end because of who it was against.

[AtLaS]

I just can't see how this can be considered a choke, especially given how clutch JJ consistently is.

A choke states that the pressure of a situation got the best of a player.

So is every missed clutch free throw a choke? That would imply that without pressure the players would shoot 100% in those situations which is flat out ridiculous.

It's obvious when someone is choking, when they can't hit anything in the 4th, make silly turnovers and dumb passes, and at the same time miss free throws. JJ clearly stepped up his game in the 4th and made some huge plays down the stretch.

[tonegully]

i still don't believe people are still talking about this missed FG. We have lost 10 other games this is just another loss. lets get it over it and move on.

[TroyMcClure]

I just can't see how this can be considered a choke, especially given how clutch JJ consistently is.

A choke states that the pressure of a situation got the best of a player.

So is every missed clutch free throw a choke? That would imply that without pressure the players would shoot 100% in those situations which is flat out ridiculous.

It's obvious when someone is choking, when they can't hit anything in the 4th, make silly turnovers and dumb passes, and at the same time miss free throws. JJ clearly stepped up his game in the 4th and made some huge plays down the stretch.

I just want you and ex to know that Joe himself said that "the pressure was on, and I missed it." What exactly do you call that then? Not to mention, PP, as much as you may hate him, has achieved far more success with his knowledge of basketball than you guys, said it was a "choke". Not that it even matters, but you guys are just being absolutely blind and it's not a flattering look on either one of you. Bottom line, he missed the shot. He gets paid to make them. It is what it is.

[mrhonline]

i still don't believe people are still talking about this missed FG. We have lost 10 other games this is just another loss. lets get it over it and move on.

Me too...

[Diesel]

I just can't see how this can be considered a choke, especially given how clutch JJ consistently is.

A choke states that the pressure of a situation got the best of a player.

So is every missed clutch free throw a choke? That would imply that without pressure the players would shoot 100% in those situations which is flat out ridiculous.

It's obvious when someone is choking, when they can't hit anything in the 4th, make silly turnovers and dumb passes, and at the same time miss free throws. JJ clearly stepped up his game in the 4th and made some huge plays down the stretch.

It's not a choke. In 1 point games (which basically this was) it's easy to point the finger at the guy who missed last. Hell, Smoove missed, Marvin certainly missed, a lot of people missed. If anybody choked, it was our defense on KG.. that choked. I'm hoping for an offseason of Thabeetm, Bibby, and Chillz.

[exodus]

It's not a choke. In 1 point games (which basically this was) it's easy to point the finger at the guy who missed last. Hell, Smoove missed, Marvin certainly missed, a lot of people missed. If anybody choked, it was our defense on KG.. that choked. I'm hoping for an offseason of Thabeetm, Bibby, and Chillz.

Our defense on KG was fine until Smith picked up his 5th foul with 4 minutes left. Up until that point KG was 4-12 from the field, a complete non-factor.

Then they switched a put Horford on KG and he got a couple of easy scores, including a backdoor dunk where Horford just fell asleep. Then on the last basket Smith was on him but reluctant to fight for position and pick up his 6th foul so KG got to deep on him.

KG just lucked out that Smith picked up his 5th. He isn't even remotely a clutch player. Never has been.

[hawkman]

I just want you and ex to know that Joe himself said that "the pressure was on, and I missed it." What exactly do you call that then? Not to mention, PP, as much as you may hate him, has achieved far more success with his knowledge of basketball than you guys, said it was a "choke". Not that it even matters, but you guys are just being absolutely blind and it's not a flattering look on either one of you. Bottom line, he missed the shot. He gets paid to make them. It is what it is.

Don't ever reference anything that d-bag says as a reason to say JJ couldn't handle the pressure. That guy was a classic whiner/chucker when his team SUCKED, which wasn't that long ago for some of you who have short memories. I honestly think JJ has done more with less than Paul Pierce could ever do. All Pierce did during the tough years in Boston was pad his stats and LOSE. It took him a perfect storm of trades to get him the Championship, and the "upstart" Hawks still took them to seven games and have played them to the wire. Why didn't he say anything while JJ was lighting up their whole team for 20 in the fourth quarter during the Playoffs? Where was all that talk when JJ took the game over the other night in the fourth and nobody could stop him? I didn't see any smiling or laughing then. Maybe Paul Pierce should just shut his trap and win games... while he can.

[exodus]

I just want you and ex to know that Joe himself said that "the pressure was on, and I missed it." What exactly do you call that then? Not to mention, PP, as much as you may hate him, has achieved far more success with his knowledge of basketball than you guys, said it was a "choke". Not that it even matters, but you guys are just being absolutely blind and it's not a flattering look on either one of you. Bottom line, he missed the shot. He gets paid to make them. It is what it is.

JJ was just stating the facts. Everyone could see the pressure was on and everyone could see that he missed.

Given your extensive playing experience i am sure you have made a lot of pressure free throws. Therefore you should know that when a guy is choking he isn't likely to miss dead center just a hair long. he is more likely to miss short. He is also more likely to miss the first. The second one is easier because you have already made one, building confidence.

Pierce was also flashing gang signs in the playoffs. He isn't exactly credible. Their whole team talks trash constantly.

Garnett only made 69% from the line in crunch time last year. JJ shot 87% last year and is shooting 93% this year. That makes your boy Garnet a big time choker, right?

Wade shot 34% from the field in his last three games. I guess he isn't earning his paycheck either.

[AtLaS]

I just want you and ex to know that Joe himself said that "the pressure was on, and I missed it." What exactly do you call that then? Not to mention, PP, as much as you may hate him, has achieved far more success with his knowledge of basketball than you guys, said it was a "choke".

So what do you call it when Pierce (against us in the playoffs) was driving the lane and had a wide open layup only to lose control of the ball completely and turn it over? That was at the end of the game and would have tied it up.

I can't believe you would even buy into that, Pierce and KG talk trash no matter what the opposing team does. Had JJ's last shot of the game been from full court they still would've been saying choke.

Regardless, a choke cannot be considered "one missed shot" because that would imply that without pressure the player would shoot 100% which is completely wrong. Unless it's a dunk or layup.

Not that it even matters, but you guys are just being absolutely blind and it's not a flattering look on either one of you. Bottom line, he missed the shot. He gets paid to make them. It is what it is.

KG is a bonafide choke artist and has been his entire career. Boston fans gave him so much crap last year it was ridiculous. Even going so far as to say "We have to blow teams out so KG won't feel the pressure of a close game".

Bottom line, if Joe choked on that last play, than LeBron, Kobe, and Jordan are bonafide choke artists.

[Dsinner]

JJ was just stating the facts. Everyone could see the pressure was on and everyone could see that he missed.

Given your extensive playing experience i am sure you have made a lot of pressure free throws. Therefore you should know that when a guy is choking he isn't likely to miss dead center just a hair long. he is more likely to miss short. He is also more likely to miss the first. The second one is easier because you have already made one, building confidence.

Pierce was also flashing gang signs in the playoffs. He isn't exactly credible. Their whole team talks trash constantly.

Garnett only made 69% from the line in crunch time last year. JJ shot 87% last year and is shooting 93% this year. That makes your boy Garnet a big time choker, right?

Wade shot 34% from the field in his last three games. I guess he isn't earning his paycheck either.

WTF?? So because he missed long and not short he didn't choke?? You guys are straight up homers sometimes. The guy choked. More often than not he doesn't. He did this time. He admitted he did. If you took an ESPN poll 99% would say he choked. THIS WAS THE DEFINITION OF THE WORD!!! You couldn't come up with a better example of the word "choke" than what JJ did. It is that freakin obvious.

Why are you throwing out stats and saying one person isn't earning his paycheck blah blah blah? That has nothing to do with Joe's missed shot. No one is saying KG is better than Joe, or that Joe isn't earning his paycheck. The argument is whether or not Joe choked. Nearly every bball fan in the world would tell you he choked.

Edited December 19, 2008 by Dsinner

[exodus]

WTF?? So because he missed long and not short he didn't choke?? You guys are straight up homers sometimes. The guy choked. More often than not he doesn't. He did this time. He admitted he did. If you took an ESPN poll 99% would say he choked. THIS WAS THE DEFINITION OF THE WORD!!! You couldn't come up with a better example of the word "choke" than what JJ did. It is that freakin obvious.

If he was choking so bad then why did he swish the first one? Was it just luck?

JJ has proven to shoot better from the line late in tight games than he does ordinarily. He has never shown any sign of choking at the line. If he had just grazed the front rim on the first attempt then i would say he was choking. But anyone who thinks that free throw was a choke has never taken a foul shot under pressure.

[Dsinner]

Bottom line, if Joe choked on that last play, than LeBron, Kobe, and Jordan are bonafide choke artists.

You guys are getting so defensive you're not making any sense. ^^^ makes absolutly no sense. None. No one is saying Joe is a choke artists. And yes, the players you mentioned above have all choked at some point in their careers. Doesn't make them a choke artists, but they will be the first to tell you they have done it.

[AtLaS]

WTF?? So because he missed long and not short he didn't choke?? You guys are straight up homers sometimes. The guy choked. More often than not he doesn't. He did this time. He admitted he did. If you took an ESPN poll 99% would say he choked. THIS WAS THE DEFINITION OF THE WORD!!! You couldn't come up with a better example of the word "choke" than what JJ did. It is that freakin obvious.

Why are you throwing out stats and saying one person isn't earning his paycheck blah blah blah? That has nothing to do with Joe's missed shot. No one is saying KG is better than Joe, or that Joe isn't earning his paycheck. The argument is whether or not Joe choked. Nearly every bball fan in the world would tell you he choked.

So every missed clutch free throw by a good player is a choke? In other words, you think stars should shoot 100% in those situations? Obviously this is what you are implying and it's ridiculous.

Missing ONE clutch free throw isn't choking. Dirk's entire series vs. the Warriors was an example of choking. Peja's historical playoff letdowns and shooting airballs for the Kings was choking. A-Rod for the Yankees in the playoffs is choking. Bottom line is that human error will cause people to miss free throws at times, and JJ almost never misses clutch free throws. He missed ONE, but he's clearly proven that he thrives in pressure situations (INCLUDING Wednesday's game) so I don't see how it can be considered a choke.