Sund says young Hawks still a work in progress

[DrReality]

Sund says young Hawks still a work in progress

By Terence Moore

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Tuesday, April 14, 2009

The Hawks’ Rick Sund is so old-school as an NBA general manager that he rarely travels with his team. He wants to scare players and coaches into thinking that something is up when he does. In fact, Sund said on Monday, “I’m Jerry West. I’m Wayne Embry. I’m that era in the sense that we all kind of hung together and shared philosophies and thoughts.”

This is splendid news for the Harry the Hawk Nation.

So is this: The more you listen to Sund in his first year with the Hawks, the more you hear Thomas Dimitroff, who spent last NFL season as a first-year general manager of the Falcons. You also hear Mike Smith, who was in his first year as an NFL head coach with the Falcons.

Remember? Dimitroff and Smith rarely finished a breath without saying “process’” to describe their moves. In the end, the Falcons flourished. They won 11 times compared to just four the previous season, and they reached the playoffs.

So you know where I’m going. With Sund talking “process” after he brought his 30 years of NBA management experience to town, the Hawks flew from 37 victories after the 2007-08 regular season to 46 and counting. More important, Sund has it right regarding what will be the youngest team in the Eastern Conference playoffs.

“We’re not there yet,” he said of a Hawks bunch that, among other things, is road kill away from Philips Arena.

According to Sund, the elite win 20 or more road games each season, so the Hawks clearly aren’t elite. After tonight’s home game against Miami, they will close their regular season Wednesday in Memphis searching for their 17th road victory. That means they’re fortunate to open the playoffs against Miami with home-court advantage.

Which means what, especially when it comes to the expectations of an old-school guy for his new-school bunch?

“If we win the first round, we’re satisfied with that, but it doesn’t mean that if we lose the first round that, well, it’s a total disappointment,” said Sund, who helped build consistent playoff teams in Milwaukee and Dallas before mixed success during his seven seasons in Seattle.

The Hawks are more like the Mavericks during Sund’s stay in Dallas from 1979-95. During one stretch, the Mavericks improved their record each year for eight straight seasons. The Hawks have done so for five straight.

Added Sund, “Again, if we’re really and truly honest about it, we’re not there yet, but if we do win, who says we can’t get into a Cinderella role like we did last season with Boston [by taking the eventual world champion Celtics to a seventh game]? Or like the New York Giants did in football a couple of years ago?”

It’s unlikely these Hawks are those Giants, and Sund knows it. Being that old-school guy, he just wants to see effort and improvement —- with as many victories as possible, of course.

tlmoore@ajc.com

[TroyMcClure]

“If we win the first round, we’re satisfied with that, but it doesn’t mean that if we lose the first round that, well, it’s a total disappointment,”

These are the words of a loser. You are either driven to be a champion or you aren't. Far too many people in the Hawks organization, aren't. If this is the attitude, expect to see Woody around for a very long time.

And dude had the nerve to put himself in the same breath as Jerry West. That's just ignorant. Even disregarding West as a player, it is still ridiculous. When he wins a few titles and trades for Kobe, then we can talk about his relative comparability with the likes of a Jerry West.

Virtually everything you hear from these bozos is just ignorant on some level.

[Admin]

These are the words of a loser. You are either driven to be a champion or you aren't. Far too many people in the Hawks organization, aren't. If this is the attitude, expect to see Woody around for a very long time.

And dude had the nerve to put himself in the same breath as Jerry West. That's just ignorant. Even disregarding West as a player, it is still ridiculous. When he wins a few titles and trades for Kobe, then we can talk about his relative comparability with the likes of a Jerry West.

Virtually everything you hear from these bozos is just ignorant on some level.

Yep I read a lot of ignorant words in this thread for sure.

[TroyMcClure]

Yep I read a lot of ignorant words in this thread for sure.

If you are trying to be funny, which I think you are... you aren't. Seriously, Dolfan. Please explain to me how saying it basically isn't a big deal if we lose in even the very first round, isn't the attitude of a loser. We made zero moves to get better for the playoffs. That tells me he's happy just to make them... in perpetuity. And for the millionth time, it's a lot easier to feel the way you do, if you weren't born and raised in Atlanta and view the Hawks as the only team you've ever cared for. This organization, good or bad represents my city. I would personally be happier if we looked capable and competent. We haven't been that since the 90's, and we won't ever be as long as these jokers run this franchise into the ground. This mild success that you may be feeling right now is so fleeting. It could vanish by next year. And I've got a strong feeling D-Wade is going to be too much for these Hawks. But that's not a big deal to Sund or you, I guess.

[mattlanta]

Terror Moore comes out with yet another terrible article. How could you compare Sund and Dimitroff? Dimitroff had to overcome many more obstacles... acquiring a new face of the franchise, rebuilding the entire team, hiring a new coaching staff, etc. While Sund only had to come in and sign a couple free agents, (Although Flip and Evans have been strong replacements over Childress) basically his team was already there.

[exodus]

I read this as Sund simply accepting that the Hawks aren't an elite team.

I haven't really made up my mind on Sund because i think his hands were pretty much tied last summer with no draft picks and no cap space, flirting with the luxury tax. However letting Childress walk and signing Mo/Flip have been good moves in my book.

I also like the fact that he gave Marvin an unltimatum to shoot 3s.

We already know that Moore isn't much of a writer.

[DrReality]

Isn't much of a writer? He stinks. And I thought about that when I posted it.

Hard to tell about Sund's statement but it struck me the same way. He does not have a great track record (not a Jerry West) but he also works for the Keystone Cops so it's hard to tell.

[macdaddy]

I don't know why you'd come out and say 'we're not an elite team and if we don't win the first round its no big deal' BEFORE the playoffs. What kind of rallying cry is that? Everyone knows we're not an elite team but we've shown we can beat anyone in the league. Making the nba finals is not our of the question for this team. They are still young enough to be highly unpredictable. If I was a player I wouldn't want to see that article now. Nothing he said is untrue its just not very inspirational.

[Admin]

If you are trying to be funny, which I think you are... you aren't. Seriously, Dolfan. Please explain to me how saying it basically isn't a big deal if we lose in even the very first round, isn't the attitude of a loser. We made zero moves to get better for the playoffs. That tells me he's happy just to make them... in perpetuity. And for the millionth time, it's a lot easier to feel the way you do, if you weren't born and raised in Atlanta and view the Hawks as the only team you've ever cared for. This organization, good or bad represents my city. I would personally be happier if we looked capable and competent. We haven't been that since the 90's, and we won't ever be as long as these jokers run this franchise into the ground. This mild success that you may be feeling right now is so fleeting. It could vanish by next year. And I've got a strong feeling D-Wade is going to be too much for these Hawks. But that's not a big deal to Sund or you, I guess.

It's obvious that Sund wants to take the pressure off of the Hawks players and I have no problem with that. He put just enough on them to let them know that he expects them to win the first round series but that he (rightfully) doesn't expect them to beat one of the elite 3. I like that he is trying to keep the pressure off of them rather than leaving the players to guess what the expectation of their boss is for them. It's not like they can try harder and put in more hours to surpass Sund's expectations otherwise I'd be disappointed with him not wanting more. We are simply outclassed in coaching and depth by the elite 3 and nobody should expect us to beat them.

I also want to add that seeing how we choked so bad in Boston last year I think that has a lot to do with Sund trying to remove some of the pressure from our guys as well.

And by the way growing up and living in Atlanta doesn't make it any difference about how we as real fans feel about the team. It hurts me every bit as much as any of you when we lose and it makes me feel just as proud when we win.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

Yep I read a lot of ignorant words in this thread for sure.

Yeah.... but in these threads they are coming from fans not a professional writer. I don't read everything that Moore writes but this is not a very good article.

I too do not like to see these quotes “If we win the first round, we’re satisfied with that, but it doesn’t mean that if we lose the first round that, well, it’s a total disappointment,”

It's like he is trying to sell us some bullcrap. It is no need for that quote because that does make you look like you are expecting to take an L. You as a GM never want your fans to hear this before a game. You are shooting down their hope before they even buy your ticket.

[buckeye242424]

Yeah.... but in these threads they are coming from fans not a professional writer. I don't read everything that Moore writes but this is not a very good article.

I too do not like to see these quotes “If we win the first round, we’re satisfied with that, but it doesn’t mean that if we lose the first round that, well, it’s a total disappointment,”

It's like he is trying to sell us some bullcrap. It is no need for that quote because that does make you look like you are expecting to take an L. You as a GM never want your fans to hear this before a game. You are shooting down their hope before they even buy your ticket.

I think people are reading into what Sund said too much. He's not selling the fans a "cop out" if we do lose in the first round. He's saying that in the event we don't win our first round series, our season wasn't a complete failure. We sniffed fifty wins, and secured home court in the first round....which we're goals for the season. Sund is simply stating that if we do lose in the first round to not to forget what was accomplished during the regular season. Don't put what the Hawks accomplished over the 82 game season being solely judged on 4 losses in the post season.

He knows there are no rings coming in 08-09. He mentions the Hawks are not "elite" yet in regards to not winning on the road. Of course he wants the Hawks to do as well as they can....but not base the future of the francise on one playoff series.

[TheTrueSiete]

Can we start a petition against posting any of Terror Moore's articles on here... From what I hear, we're all in luck due to the fact that he is being bought out of his contract with the AJC...

:offtopic2:

7

[Atlantaholic]

These are the words of a loser. You are either driven to be a champion or you aren't. Far too many people in the Hawks organization, aren't. If this is the attitude, expect to see Woody around for a very long time.

And dude had the nerve to put himself in the same breath as Jerry West. That's just ignorant. Even disregarding West as a player, it is still ridiculous. When he wins a few titles and trades for Kobe, then we can talk about his relative comparability with the likes of a Jerry West.

Virtually everything you hear from these bozos is just ignorant on some level.

He is taking a business like stance and making a modest and realistic assessment of the team. Considering most people on this forum have been talking about how scary it would be to play Miami and Wade in the first round, loosing is an obvious possibility... If we did loose this certainly would not have been a lost season. That is all he is saying, and I completely agree with him. We made a serious run at 50 wins and our team is in way better shape than it was this time a year ago, so regardless of our postseason performance we have had a successful season. I would be MUCH more worried if he felt like we had a championship caliber team this year, because we clearly do not... we're not even close to having one IMO. I take his comments as meaning that the players, coach and GM still have a lot of work to do in the next few years before we reach that level, which to me is clearly the truth.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Atlantaholic

[HAWKS1986]

These are the words of a loser. You are either driven to be a champion or you aren't. Far too many people in the Hawks organization, aren't. If this is the attitude, expect to see Woody around for a very long time.

And dude had the nerve to put himself in the same breath as Jerry West. That's just ignorant. Even disregarding West as a player, it is still ridiculous. When he wins a few titles and trades for Kobe, then we can talk about his relative comparability with the likes of a Jerry West.

Virtually everything you hear from these bozos is just ignorant on some level.

Sund seems to be stating the case for doing nothing during the offseason. This team is not a inexperienced team, but a talented younger team that has been around for awhile. Memphis has an inexperienced and young team, so does Oklahoma City or even Sacramento...These teams may be a year or so away from acquiring a playoff berth, but the Hawks are ALREADY there. So is Sund the guy to make the moves for this team to be a championship team?

[tbhawksfan]

There were moves available this season that he didn't make. I like the theory that you always try to win now, while building for the future. Sund is obviously building for the future, but why didn't he do anything to help now? We are in the playoffs, we are even expected to advance, yet, Sund didn't seem to think that it was worth investing in a little bench help to possibly improve our chances THIS season. I don't like it. For me it's a failure to seize the moment.

At the trade deadline, there were many "small" moves that shored up quite a few contenders; none by Sund. Even to have signed someone after the deadline would have helped by taking some of the load off of some of other players.

It's simple; a small move could have benefitted this team NOW, at a time when we've done the work to get home-court and we have our chance to make a run in the playoffs. Isn't that the goal? Isn't it a no brainer to bring in any little piece that could have helped now? Next year, we start the season 0-0. Whatever Sund does to improve the Hawks next season will have no effect on the present, which as of now, is much more important than next season.

Whether Sund or the ASG is to blame; I don't care. I know the ASG is a joke, not much I can do about it. But, Sund has already let golden opportunities pass. If we advance to the second round and show that we had at least a chance this year, it will validate my position. Give a good playoff team (fourth seed) a little help and it can push them over the top.

I didn't care for Sund's statement last summer "take a year to evaluate". What was he doing prior to taking the Hawks job? Was he not familar with our team or the contract realities? Isn't he a veteran GM? I see it all as a cope out.

I'll hope that the Hawks have what it takes to win it all this year, while being disappointed that nothing was done at the management level to give them a little help.

Sund = JWest is a great joke to start my day. For him to have said it himself really sets off alarm bells for me. Especially as he seems to be spending all his energy patting himself on the back while our young Hawks face the gigantic task of winning, with very little help from above.

[Vol4ever]

Isn't much of a writer? He stinks. And I thought about that when I posted it.

Hard to tell about Sund's statement but it struck me the same way. He does not have a great track record (not a Jerry West) but he also works for the Keystone Cops so it's hard to tell.

x2

[DrReality]

While watch Gasol last night I wondered why we didn't make a harder run at him? Decent player.

[frosgrim]

There were moves available this season that he didn't make. I like the theory that you always try to win now, while building for the future. Sund is obviously building for the future, but why didn't he do anything to help now? We are in the playoffs, we are even expected to advance, yet, Sund didn't seem to think that it was worth investing in a little bench help to possibly improve our chances THIS season. I don't like it. For me it's a failure to seize the moment.

At the trade deadline, there were many "small" moves that shored up quite a few contenders; none by Sund. Even to have signed someone after the deadline would have helped by taking some of the load off of some of other players.

It's simple; a small move could have benefitted this team NOW, at a time when we've done the work to get home-court and we have our chance to make a run in the playoffs. Isn't that the goal? Isn't it a no brainer to bring in any little piece that could have helped now? Next year, we start the season 0-0. Whatever Sund does to improve the Hawks next season will have no effect on the present, which as of now, is much more important than next season.

Whether Sund or the ASG is to blame; I don't care. I know the ASG is a joke, not much I can do about it. But, Sund has already let golden opportunities pass. If we advance to the second round and show that we had at least a chance this year, it will validate my position. Give a good playoff team (fourth seed) a little help and it can push them over the top.

I didn't care for Sund's statement last summer "take a year to evaluate". What was he doing prior to taking the Hawks job? Was he not familar with our team or the contract realities? Isn't he a veteran GM? I see it all as a cope out.

I'll hope that the Hawks have what it takes to win it all this year, while being disappointed that nothing was done at the management level to give them a little help.

Sund = JWest is a great joke to start my day. For him to have said it himself really sets off alarm bells for me. Especially as he seems to be spending all his energy patting himself on the back while our young Hawks face the gigantic task of winning, with very little help from above.

Don't quite get your stance. On one hand you say Sund should have done "something" but on the other you acknowledge that the ASG may have tied Sund's hands. You can't have it both ways.

Let's look at the trade deadline issue first:

Who could have the Hawks traded for bench depth? You move Zaza for a pg? Well then who is left as a big man? Sund couldn't trade either Murray or Evans as they provided what little depth the team has. You could argue Law, but Sund seems to think that Law should be playing more (just like Billy Knight did).

Option 2 was to trade one of the starters, but for what? You can't trade Josh Smith due him just signing a new contract and his BYC status.

Marvin, maybe, but what do you get in return for a guy that is in for significant pay raise? Besides we have seen that the club actually suffers against elite teams without Marvin. Add on top of that, he's 22 and has improved every year in the NBA.

Al Horford, why?

JJ- give me a break

Bibby? To whom and for what? Sund made it clear that he thinks Bibby was one of the reasons the club played itself to its current record. For all of Bibby's deficiencies, he is still a solid PG for the Hawks. Second, who wanted Bibby and his contract?

Lastly, Sund wanted/needed to see what this club was about before making a rash move. That is sound management. Very little comes of going to a new team and trading out players that you don't know anything about. Don Nelson is famous for this, and look where that has landed him...

Option 2: signing a vet. Here is where the ASG comes into play. They don't have the money to keep signing players. It is very obvious that they went as far as they could with the Hawks while hanging the Thrashers out to dry. They also fired staff in the coorporate offices to cut costs. Its easy to say millionaires should spend money on X, but if they don't have it, they don't have it.

Look, I am skeptical of Sund, but in this particular case, he's made the right choice in letting this season play out. There wasn't enough ammunition on the team to make a move that would have pushed the Hawks into a higher seed. Over the summer is when we all can really evaluate what Sund is as a GM.

Will he make the tough call and fire Woodson or do you give him a real contract extension (it has to be one or the other)?

Will he make a blockbuster trade to even out the roster (e.g. move Josh Smith for Chris Bohs, Chris Kaman, etc)?

What can he do with Bibby?

How much will he sign MW for?

Can he get another vet for the bench to finally even the team out?

What will he do in the draft? Trade the pick? Reach for a big man? Take a PG that has little upside (e.g. Lawson)?

The reality of the situation is that the Hawks are the 4th best team in the Eastern Conference. That is saying something. Second, you can attribute the Hawks success this year to at least 2 Sund moves: Murray and Evans. For me, I am going to enjoy watching the Hawks destroy the Heat and then playing a grinding series vs. LBJ and his band of merry band of Cavaliers.

[Diesel]

I think people are reading into what Sund said too much. He's not selling the fans a "cop out" if we do lose in the first round. He's saying that in the event we don't win our first round series, our season wasn't a complete failure. We sniffed fifty wins, and secured home court in the first round....which we're goals for the season. Sund is simply stating that if we do lose in the first round to not to forget what was accomplished during the regular season. Don't put what the Hawks accomplished over the 82 game season being solely judged on 4 losses in the post season.

He knows there are no rings coming in 08-09. He mentions the Hawks are not "elite" yet in regards to not winning on the road. Of course he wants the Hawks to do as well as they can....but not base the future of the francise on one playoff series.

As a 4th seed, we're supposed to beat a 5th seed. I guess when Seattle lost to Denver some years ago when John Elway came out and got ready to Motumbo... it wasn't all that bad for Seattle? I guess when the Heat beat the Mavs after being down 2-0, it wasn't that bad for the Mavs. I guess had we beaten the Celtics in game 7 last year, it wouldn't have been so bad for the Cs!?

The point is that you have higher aspirations for these other teams but you're able to accept failure or mediocrity (which is worse) from the Hawks. As the GM of this franchise, those words should have gotten him reprimanded. How dare you give any inkling that losing will be received with a data boy?? In the NBA, the window is small. Usually, you only have one shot... this is your choice to go... this opportunity only comes once in a lifetime...

Ask Nique how often it comes.

Ask Barkley how often it comes.

Ask Ewing how often it comes.

Ask Webber how often it comes.

Ask Payton how often it comes.

Ask Karl Malone and John Stockton how often it comes.

Right now, we have a 1 and 16 shot to win it all.

This is no time to be meager or satisfied!!!