joe not even in Crawford's class... period.

[Jackets333]

All of you saying this is just pre season and it doesn't mean anything are in denial. This is the same stuff that happened last year in the playoffs on the road. No good team loses by 40, pre season or pickup game. That is downright embarrassing and you have no pride if you don't take a beating like that personal.

You can't compare this to an NFL game where the starters play 2 plays and are taken out. The regulars played the majority of that first half and the 3rd quarter. This is the same old story with the same old ending.

[Crank]

All of you saying this is just pre season and it doesn't mean anything are in denial. This is the same stuff that happened last year in the playoffs on the road. No good team loses by 40, pre season or pickup game. That is downright embarrassing and you have no pride if you don't take a beating like that personal.

You can't compare this to an NFL game where the starters play 2 plays and are taken out. The regulars played the majority of that first half and the 3rd quarter. This is the same old story with the same old ending.

You would have a point if they were getting blown out every game but they finished the preseason 5-2 . Every team in the league is spotted a game or two and one loss doesnt wipe out the entire preseason .

The loss didnt bother me but I wanted to see some passion and intensity at least early on from the starters especially that front line . I wanted to see who on that frontline was ready to take that next step . But all 3 looked like boys among men out there tonight and thats a bit disheartening but again its only preseason they have earned that much and they have next week to reward that trust .

[Admin]

During the REAL season last year Joe shot like 41-42% most of the year.

Even if this team wins 50 games it will be a hollow 50 wins because the three teams above are so much better.

That's not JJ's fault, that's Woody's crappy offensive "system" that is to blame. JJ is one of the most ridiculous shooters in the league but when he's playing a ton of minutes and his primary job is to wait for the double team to come and then either split it via the drilbble or pass then clearly we're misusing him. Until someone else in our starting lineup steps up and becomes a threat to the defense or we change our "system" we're going to continue to see nights like this more often than not from JJ and I'm sorry but that's not his fault.

[capstone21]

That's not JJ's fault, that's Woody's crappy offensive "system" that is to blame. JJ is one of the most ridiculous shooters in the league but when he's playing a ton of minutes and his primary job is to wait for the double team to come and then either split it via the drilbble or pass then clearly we're misusing him. Until someone else in our starting lineup steps up and becomes a threat to the defense or we change our "system" we're going to continue to see nights like this more often than not from JJ and I'm sorry but that's not his fault.

Its funny, we have not even played a single game of the regular season and people have already given up.

[niremetal]

Its funny, we have not even played a single game of the regular season and people have already given up.

I agree, but the man had a point re: Woody's "system"

[Plainview1981]

That's not JJ's fault, that's Woody's crappy offensive "system" that is to blame. JJ is one of the most ridiculous shooters in the league but when he's playing a ton of minutes and his primary job is to wait for the double team to come and then either split it via the drilbble or pass then clearly we're misusing him. Until someone else in our starting lineup steps up and becomes a threat to the defense or we change our "system" we're going to continue to see nights like this more often than not from JJ and I'm sorry but that's not his fault.

He hasn't shoot well in 2 years. Age is creeping up on him really quick/ Yeah, he doesn't get those wide open shots that he got in Phx... But Wade and other number 1 options don't get those open shots either. JJ was missing shots even when he was fairly open last year.

[Sothron]

I agree with some others that preseason is just that but I don't think this team is anything better than the fourth seed and is headed for another second round exit in the playoffs unless a major trade happens to bring in another all star level player. Look at the big names on the Big 3 and then look at our roster. We just don't have the superstar talent to match up or one top five scorer with a great role cast that can just skate by in the playoffs. We have a good, balanced roster but its nothing more than that.

[Admin]

He hasn't shoot well in 2 years. Age is creeping up on him really quick/ Yeah, he doesn't get those wide open shots that he got in Phx... But Wade and other number 1 options don't get those open shots either. JJ was missing shots even when he was fairly open last year.

He's not that type of player that can just go off on everybody regardless of the defense. As much as we (most of us) like JJ he's not in the same class as Wade, Lebron, Kobe, etc. and he needs a real system with ball movement and screens otherwise he's going to struggle. I'm not sure at what point this happened, maybe in the Celtics series 2 years ago but it seems like at a certain point Woody started having JJ wait for double teams to pass out of and that's our offense and it's an awful system unless Bibby and Marvin are drilling 3's out of it but it will kill JJ's productivity and wear him out. However when those guys aren't nailing their shots (like last night) then we see how awful we can be. Unfortunately that was compounded by the fact that nobody on our team shot worth a damn last night.

[Plainview1981]

He's not that type of player that can just go off on everybody regardless of the defense. As much as we (most of us) like JJ he's not in the same class as Wade, Lebron, Kobe, etc. and he needs a real system with ball movement and screens otherwise he's going to struggle. I'm not sure at what point this happened, maybe in the Celtics series 2 years ago but it seems like at a certain point Woody started having JJ wait for double teams to pass out of and that's our offense and it's an awful system unless Bibby and Marvin are drilling 3's out of it but it will kill JJ's productivity and wear him out. However when those guys aren't nailing their shots (like last night) then we see how awful we can be. Unfortunately that was compounded by the fact that nobody on our team shot worth a damn last night.

Well, even Michael Redd shoots 45%. You could argue that Redd doesn't have as many responsibilities as JJ does, and that's true... but... only Billups had a lower shooting percentage from the top 35 scorers last year. Considering his FT shooting and 3pt shooting, you could argue that Billups was still a better overall shooter. JJ's mediocre shooting was acceptable 3 or 4 seasons ago, but not now. Honestly, it felt like JJ shot 40% last year. He had a lot of low percentage shooting nights. Yes, some of it has to do with Woody' s system, but JJ even struggled in the all star game last year.

Besides, it's not only that. I'm not convinced that JJ's heart is all in it. I hate his on court demeanor and it seems like he just bows out sometimes.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[Admin]

Well, even Michael Redd shoots 45%. You could argue that Redd doesn't have as many responsibilities as JJ does, and that's true... but... only Billups had a lower shooting percentage from the top 35 scorers last year. Considering his FT shooting and 3pt shooting, you could argue that Billups was still a better overall shooter.

And you could also argue that the Hawks run by far the most basic and sad offense in basketball. I guarantee that if JJ were on another team that actually ran an NBA offense he'd be significantly better.

[RedDawg#8]

When have you seen Joe dive for a loose ball?

sad but true, and it rubs off on the other players, outside of Zaza and sometimes Horf, we arent very scrappy as a whole. We lack desire, hunger, emotion and drive. Its like the more we improve, the less our players have the will to do the little things, we have become full of ourselves and forget that if we dont push for every minute in the game we arent any better than any other team in the league.

Potential is one thing we have tons of, but it takes effort and commitment to capitolize on it.... thats were you look at a Coach or Captain to point the finger, somebody has to be a leader and bring it out of the team.

In my eyes, Joe= Carmelo, an all-star, super talented, but not a superstar or true team leader. We need the equivalent of a Chauncey Billups to impact this roster and make this talent play together to their true potential.

[Crank]

He hasn't shoot well in 2 years. Age is creeping up on him really quick/ Yeah, he doesn't get those wide open shots that he got in Phx... But Wade and other number 1 options don't get those open shots either. JJ was missing shots even when he was fairly open last year.

thats true but also if you put Crawford in the lineup with Wade then Wade would go out of his way to make sure Crawford felt comfortable and was involved even passing up shots himself .

After watching the game again (yes I know ) :beathorse: the one thing that stood out to me is that Bibby and Joe know what Crawford is capable of and yet when Crawford was on the court with them they pretty much ignored him the entire time even though Joe was having an off night. For this team to do BIG things everyone must realize that when Joe is off its in all of our best interests to establish Crawford as quickly as possible . I noticed that Woody gave Crawford some extended minutes with both Bibby and Joe and I dont think he attempted a shot .

So something has to give we have to know who to go to and when . I was thinking to myself Joe can create a shot for someone why not try and set Crawford up for some looks thats what wade ,Kobe or or any of the elite talents would do find the guys brought in to help them and give them the opportunity. Joe didnt have to shoot that poorly he couldve created opportunities for Crawford who doesnt really need to have someone create for him but by doing so Joe sends a message to everyone .

[ngc7]

just wait till the reg season. all of you guys are wigging out on preseason saying we need to do this and that. Well all of that will happen very soon.

[jhay610]

It is what it is?

I'll tell you what it is... It is a 4th seed team that has maxed out it's potential and can't get out of the 2nd round. Sound familiar? Sorta like a team the Hawks had about 10 years ago.

For all of Hot's mind-numbing blindly-spewed vitriol, this is actually a fair point. We seem to back where we started before we went on this massive rebuilding project, except we're younger now then we were a decade ago. It's hard to see this team knocking off any of the big 3 - maybe they pass the Celts next year as that team is on the decline, but who knows how the Joe situation will play out.

I will say that everyone needs to take a preseason game with a grain of salt.

[MaceCase]

For all of Hot's mind-numbing blindly-spewed vitriol, this is actually a fair point. We seem to back where we started before we went on this massive rebuilding project, except we're younger now then we were a decade ago. It's hard to see this team knocking off any of the big 3 - maybe they pass the Celts next year as that team is on the decline, but who knows how the Joe situation will play out.

I will say that everyone needs to take a preseason game with a grain of salt.

It is a fair point but still far too bleak. The team hasn't peaked but is fairly close to it but the main difference is that we are only in need of tweaking rather than full rebuilding. Given the number of young prospects we have and movable contracts it shouldn't be too hard to achieve this goal but people need to have patience and realize that we are still in the middle of evaluating who we build around or use to supplement who we acquire to build around. Sund is known to pull the trigger on big moves and helped put Seattle back on the NBA map, his only problem was that he didn't draft well enough to supplement those moves. The hope here is that he learned from those events and will skillfully apply that knowledge into making us viable contenders but again, patience. Insert cliche "....wasn't built in day" here.

[jerrywest]

* Anybody who thought Hawks will suddenly start beating elite teams on the road was disappointed.

* Anybody who thought Hawks playing their first back to back game since April would come out flying was disappointed.

* Anybody who thought Woody will suddenly find an offensive playbook was disappointed.

* Anybody who underestimated how awesome Orlando is was disappointed.

* Anybody who thought a rookie couldn't have an off game shooting was disappointed.

* Anybody who thought Howard, Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, shaq, Kareem etc. couldn't make average players look like all stars was disappointed. Some all star players who played with great centers: Anthony Mason, John Starks, Acie Green, Charles Oakley, Kenny Smith, Otis Thorpe, Nelson.

Did you all notice:

* Smoove refused to shoot a 3 and passed it to Marvin as the shot clock expire. That's huge.

* Did you see Teague may be the fastest sports car in the NBA and both Crawford and Teague can create their shots anytime?

* Did you see Marvin & Mo Evans dribbling a lot better?

* Did you see Horford's shooting touch is significantly better?

* Did you see how much stronger Bibby and Mo Evans look? Bibby can guard a lot of shooting guards and Mo Evans can guard a lot of small forwards now. They couldn't guard many last year.

[Plainview1981]

It is a fair point but still far too bleak. The team hasn't peaked but is fairly close to it but the main difference is that we are only in need of tweaking rather than full rebuilding. Given the number of young prospects we have and movable contracts it shouldn't be too hard to achieve this goal but people need to have patience and realize that we are still in the middle of evaluating who we build around or use to supplement who we acquire to build around. Sund is known to pull the trigger on big moves and helped put Seattle back on the NBA map, his only problem was that he didn't draft well enough to supplement those moves. The hope here is that he learned from those events and will skillfully apply that knowledge into making us viable contenders but again, patience. Insert cliche "....wasn't built in day" here.

patience? This team has been building for 6 years. How long do you need? A decade? 12 seasons?

[exodus]

I think it is pretty obvious from tonight's game that joe is not going to be "the man" on this team.

If someone who never saw or read anything about basketball saw this game, they could not tell you a single one of joe's attributes. He is just gutless. At least Crawford has a made up mind. It is obvious what he is thinking...

"Nobody on this court can guard me. Whether or not I score is just a matter of me making the shot. Whoever is guarding me is toast."

joe? Not so much.

That smell is joe.

Looks like someone seriously needs to consider decaf.

[MaceCase]

patience? This team has been building for 6 years. How long do you need? A decade? 12 seasons?

Well the first rebuilding project was disastrous under BK for failing to indentity and pick impact players but we did come away with a pretty decent team. Under Sund, year 3 or at the latest year 4 is when I expect him to makeover this team with his own players and coach. If that fails well then you will be looking at even more years of being average or worse. It's the nature of the business.

[itsslomotionbaby]

you can say it was just preseason, but what i saw out there truly disappointed me. i saw it in joes face, that he doesnt want to be here. i dont know what is going on with joe lately. but dont you guys realise joe went on a 2 month streak without hitting 20 pts.

now it is digracefully ovious that we are going to be embarassed in the bigmen department, yes the magic have assembled a jugarnaut. but man nobody swated a pass going to the basket and nobody even got a dunk ( and this is suppose to be a highflying atheletic team). which make me ask what did we get jason collins for.b/c that rocky balboa lookalike is going to be a joke against elite team.

this was my first time seeing teaugue 0-15 shooting are you kidding me and he is supposed to be better than acie law and the way that whole team just laid down like they didnt belong and you say we dont need flipp.

i didnt like the look in josh smith face after the game when he went to shake hands with howard. it reminded me of when an alpha male establishes dominance in the pack and the submissive dog rolls on the ground in front of him with his tail between his legs.thats the look i saw in smiths eyes. he could barely look howard in the face after that performance. but aint it funny josh smith allways seems to be the high scorer in theese type of games but we want to get rid of him.

i guess it just confirms that we need more players that the defense cant stay in front of that can get their on shots and for the life of me our we sure we cant find any 7 foot goons out thier instead of a guy that pump fakes like he has stalled gears (zaza)